Child stun gun for parental use - for real

[donsu]

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0336/mondo4.php

Steve Robnor, a massage therapist in Boca Raton, Florida, has designed a stun gun that looks like a billy club to use on naughty girls and boys instead of spanking them. Called the B-Stik, it costs $29.95, and Robnor hopes it offers a less damaging punishment than the good ol' beating with a belt or strap. "It's a safer alternative for people who physically discipline their children," he told the Chicago Sun-Times. I thought this was a way to fill a technological gap in disciplining children—a device that would sting but not injure."
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Gee, how nazi of Robnor - got to keep the little buggers in line.

[wyldwolf]

1. Will immediately be bought up by the S&M community!

[kysrsoze]

34. Is it OK to use on consenting adults? Where can I get one?

[BayCityProgressive]

2. That is sick

* the gun not the S&M community comment:evilgrin:

[MuseRider]

3. NO

This can't be true!!!! I refuse to believe ths, simply refuse. I wouldn't use this on anyone except maybe someone trying to use this on my children. I managed to raise two perfectly wonderful but not perfect boys without violence. Only time I ever spanked one was when he tried to run into the middle of the Reforma in Mexico City. I figured that was better than being hit by one of the 10 million VW Beetles they used for taxis buzzing around the circle. No way. This just can't be real.

[Systematic Chaos]

4. That's right up there with those leash things

on the class-o-meter!

Anyone else ever seen some ditz window shopping at the mall, paying no attention whatsoever to her kid, because the kid's on a leash? Does that teach these kids how to be calm and non-disruptive in public? Does it teach them obedience? No, it teaches them how to feel like a friggin' dog. :eyes:

[Robb]

7. I'm not a fan of the leash, but

Devil's Advocate, here. Young children learn by consistency and repetition -- if you get popped every time you do X, you stop doing X.

I'm not sure this kiddie-taser is a good thing, but I'd rather see that than backhands across little faces. (should add I'd rather see neither....)

[Terwilliger]

10. consistency is key

if a child does something wrong, don't placate them

[devarsi]

15. So, how do you "not placate them" ?

NOT that I agree with this kid zapper at all, far from it.

But, if you have an actively stubborn child, requiring CONSTANT supervision, taking time away from your other children, and who is a potential endangerment to his/her self, what do you do?

How many times have you seen a half aware parent repeat themselves ad naseum to their child "Billy/Betty, stop that, you don't pull hair/push/take toys (etc) it's not nice." While the child forges ahead, pulling hair, snatching toys, pushing others.

The child knows, at some level, that it is a test of endurance. The child keeps up the behavior, the parent endlessly threatens, and nothing is accomplished.

I don't know about you Terwilliger, but I find that most people that have easy, pat answers for how to discipline children, don't actually have children of their own. It just isn't a simple job. :-)

If you do, how do you deal with discipline?

[izzie]

18. I think now we give them pills.

Ever think what it will be like when this group of kids grow up? Not one has had to lean to behave, they just took a pill to slow them down.Now for the ones not on pills stun guns. More fun.

[devarsi]

23. Yeah, but that doesn't answer the question

of what do you do with a child who does not respond to lighter forms of discipline?

Without a doubt, pills and shocks are not the answer, but when you a dealing with a special case kid, or just a stubborn kid that can put themselves at risk while they are learniong to respond to positive support, what do you do?

I think there is a big difference between a correctly administrerd spanking, and child abuse. A swat on the rear for running into the street is NOT abuse. Negative reinforcement works, and though it should always come secondary to positive reinforcement, most people will acknowledge that there are times when you must use both the proverbial carrot AND the stick.

I think that one of the many reasons that we see more and more crimes being committed by younger and younger children is that children are either not taught that there will be negative reaction to negative actions, or that they are abused, and take on an adverserial relationship with the world.

But, just because abuse exists as an example of how not to raise a child, doesn't mean we should give up mild disciplinary methods. Abusers are sick people, not concerned parents that just got carried away.

[dansolo]

32. I read somewhere that kids aren't getting enough sleep

Part of the reason that kids are more unruly now is not because they need to be medicated, but because they are not getting enough sleep. I find this plausable, and is probably the simplest explanation for unruly behavior and a lack of concentration in school.

[uptohere]

30. if there is no action and only threat, don't act surprized at the result

and yes I do have a strong willed girl.

if you state that there will be a consequence, there had damn well better be one coming. something terrible but not violent. every kid has something that they prize.

but as with all training, rewarding good behavior works a lot better than punishing bad.

apply yourself, be smarter than your kid, be the adult (emotionally or rather managing your emotion out) and be the leader your kid seeks.

its not bull and it does work. it amazes the crap out of my friend whos a slap on the ass kind of guy but even he has to admit it works.

[BiggJawn]

36. "Billy/Betty stop that or I will TWEAK YOUR EAR..."

Then actually grab a lobe and TWEAK it.
Billy/Betty knows that mom will never do anything but annoy everyone else in earshot with her toothless never-ending threats, so where's the deterrent?
There is none, so damn the torpedos, full steam ahead!

[FlaGranny]

11. If you had a kid like one of mine was

you would have wished for a leash. He was an escape artist and could disappear the instant your attention was off him. Watching him was actually not good enough. You had to hold onto him and he did not cooperate. He would not hold your hand. You held his and he hung off it until your arm ached. When you picked him up to carry him, he hung from your arms like a 30-pound sac of potatoes. He exhausted you in about 5 minutes. I wondered many times if I could fashion a leash, but never did.

After he turned 3 he improved a lot, but once, as a 3-year old, he instigated a long trek through the woods with two other 3 year olds. At 2, he climbed a 20-foot tall monkey bar. He was FAST. He tried to fly off a chair and broke his collar bone. The stories I could tell. Oh, and at 3, he scaled a 6-foot high cyclone fence to the next door neighbor's pool. He was very, very smart, and grew up to be a professional, but I was happy he just grew up. My other kids were happy to be normal little kids. So, unless you've dealt with a child like that, I wouldn't be too hard on someone for getting a leash.

Edit: This stun gun "invention" is horrible. I can easily imagine it being used as a torture instrument by some demented, sadistic parent or sibling.

[sandnsea]

39. Mine just sat down

I had one like yours and my mother bought the leash. Okay, I'll try it. The boy sat down in the middle of the parking lot and would not get up until the leash was off. I think these things only work on kids who are cooperative in the first place.

[alfredo]

12. Had a friend who's father, a traveling evangelist, used an electric

leash on her. Her brother would sometimes administer the shock when the father was too lazy to do it himself. She committed suicide some years ago.

He'd do puppet shows at churches. Looks like he wanted her to be a puppet too. He also sexually abused her. that product would have been right down his alley.

[devarsi]

13. I dunno about that one...

The leash (geez, that word...) gives a kid some room to explore and investigate his/her surroundings, without the danger of running off into traffic, etc.

Though I have never used one, there have been times where I wish I could have.

As far as teaching a kid to be "calm and non disruptive in public," that could take years for some kids, and it takes a mere seconds for a traffic accident to end a life.

I don't think the kid zapper compares at all....

[Philosophy]

16. I don't mind the leash

My folks used them on me and my twin brother when we were very small because we were wild as hell and they had my baby brother to carry around too. Little kids are too small to care. In fact we thought it was kind of fun.

[izzie]

17. Hum well I do have trouble here.

I used one on my child when I went shopping for about a month. I sure got yelled at but this kid would run right into the street and I did not thinking spanking was a good deal so it was a stand off and I won with a leash. This reasoning worked and I hate to even say I did it.I am sure this item will sell great and make millions for some corp. and the Bible belt will eat it up. Some quote from Bible will be dragged out.If we keep this up it will be back to the burning of any one that does not go along.

[arcane1]

26. "spare the rod.." indeed

:eyes:

I can see them rubbing their hands with glee, awaiting the UPS man

[JVS]

5. Sweet

I found the Webpage

http://www.b-stik.com/

It seems that it is also used for massage.

[Uzybone]

6. the child taser...

...wonderful. Since the US govt uses torture it was only a matter of time before it filtered down to our kids.

[DBoon]

20. Perfect training for when they grow up

You have devices to track adolescents. You have devices to monitor their "private" communications. Now you have stun guns.

Are we training our children for what they world will be like when they become adults?

[Terwilliger]

8. ritalin? behavior modification? stun-gun?...what's next, euthanasia?

When will people start standing up for their own lack of parenting skills?

[JPace]

9. Something is very wrong here......

that our nation would allow something like
this to come on the market. CPS (Child
Protection Services) somewhere should pay
attention to this announcement!

It is always easier to get your way through
violence, but a civilized society does not
choose the easy way.

Under AWOLs' regime our country is becoming
barbaric.

[Generic Other]

14. The kids in my family have been smacking each other

with handheld bug zappers all summer. And before those were invented, they pushed each other into electric fences.

I think maybe bundles of burning nettles would be more effective. At least that's what I threaten my nieces and nephews with! :)

[donsu]

21. ahh, raising boys

training big, tough dogs is easier.

[DBoon]

19. Not fit for a dog

I have no children but wouldn't use this on a dog. Physical punishment only teaches the dog to fear the owner. Most dogs basically want to do the right thing. To train a dog, your establish your authority by your attitude and presence (act like a leader), you have them do something that makes sense to a dog, and you reward them right away when they get it right.

Someone who trains a dog with pain and physical punishment is only raising a fearful, neurotic canine.

If it is too cruel and useless for dogs, then doubly so on children

[FlaGranny]

22. You might not be aware of this

Dogs are much easier to train than kids, but I wouldn't inflict pain on either one of them. :-)

Dogs have a pack mentality and they instinctively look for a leader. A kid is not a pack animal and is harder to train and a lot less willing to please. But, you are right, the same methods work for both, eventually. If I gave you a 1-year old kid and a 2-month old puppy, you'd have that puppy doing your bidding a whole heck of a lot faster than you would the kid, even allowing for the differences in maturity rates.

[donsu]

24. Yes, I raised, trained and showed dogs for 20 yrs.

and I was kinda joking. boys become men.

[kysrsoze]

35. There's no black or white - you have to be sensible, especially with dogs

I was infrequently spanked as a child, but mostly either grounded or forced into labor - which I hated worse. I was not abused and don't have any emotional scars from being spanked. In fact, I recall once when my mom slapped me and at the time, I deserved it for what I had said. There's a difference between physical deterrence and abuse.

I think sales of kiddie leashes and tasers signal some serious ignorance on the part of the buyer, and that some people need help in learning how to be decent parents. I have my thoughts on leashes, but the taser does seem to be abusive.

Sorry, but physicality is one of the things dogs understand. As domesticated as they are (and as much as I love my dogs), they still have their instincts. Funny, but simply isolating an animal from contact with others is extremely abusive and results in extremely violent behavior - this is one of the ways in which they train "junkyard" dogs. Here are four examples where I don't believe physicality, including slight pain, are bad:

1. To keep a dog from physically challenging you (getting ready to attack you b/c it's mad), you wrestle the dog onto its back and grab it by the jowls, putting it into a submissive position in which it understands it is under your control. Did that with my doberman pup twice and she has never tried since. No, she is not neurotic, nor fearful. She is respectful and absolutely loving.

2. Dogs will grab their puppies by the scruff of the neck with their teeth to control them. I try to use this sparingly, and really have only had to with a puppy

3. Modified choke chains (which actually dig large pins into their necks) are much more humane than a regular choke chain, and much more humane than having the dog choke itself by constantly pulling when the leash is attached to its regular collar - it doesn't seem to phase them, but after 2 minutes they can't breathe.

4. Unfortunately, there are sometimes no alternatives to using a bark collar which produces a mild shock when the dog barks. It works very well and isn't cruel.

[ButterflyBlood]

25. there is no way this can't be classified as child abuse

[uptohere]

29. what about doiping your kid up ? is that abuse too ?

to me, its the same

[uptohere]

27. let me get this straight

its bad to use stun guns and its OK to dope them into enough of a stupor to be controlable ?

frankly I find the stun gun more humane. the zap is generally harmless but God knows what the drugs will do...

oh, and I do not favor corporal punishment at all. I perfer to be a parent and provide acceptable escape for a kids natural over abundance of energy. even if its a little inconvenient for me. its called planning.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

28. Cattle prods work just as well.

Jay-sus! I've seen everything now. Cattle prod lite for kids.

[BiggJawn]

37. We had one when we were kids....

Jeezuzz, those things BURN!
Most siblings fought with each other, me and my Bro used cattle prods....

[MisterP]

31. here's the site

www.b-stik.com

[2cents]

33. Watch out ladies

This sick crap sounds like a Conservative's Christmas stocking stuffer.

Can a wife-prod be far behind?

[regnaD kciN]

38. Just when you think civilization can't deteriorate any faster...

...someone like Steve Robnor comes along to prove you wrong.

:puke:

[Fescue4u]

40. Thats just wrong.

I don't have a problem with an occasional spanking, but using a "gun" to punish your kids pisses me off to no end.

Guns have a legitimate use (stun or otherwise). Self Defense, fun, police and military uses, hunting....NOT punishment of children.


Man...Thats a mistake just waiting for serious consequences.