I'm starting to seriously consider buying a gun... or a few

[nonconformist]

Wow, I can't believe I'm actually saying that.

I've always been a supporter of the right to own a gun. (that's right, lurking freeper ASSHOLES, the democrats don't want to take your fucking guns away) I've also always been a supporter of reasonable gun laws and background checks.

However, morally I've always been opposed to having a gun in my household. I grew up in a family of hunters (die-hard democrats), so we always had rifles and shotguns. I think that's fine, but neither my husband nor I hunt so we have no purpose for that. The statistics of handgun ownership - where that gun is far more likely to be stolen and used in a crime, used against the owner or in a fatal accident - has made it easy for us to never consider bringing a handgun into our home. We have children and it's not a chance I'm willing to take.

But today, I feel quite differently. Times are changing fast.

We're active and vocal democrats. We have signs in our yard and bumper stickers on our cars in support of democratic candidates. We'll very soon be replacing those with anti-Bush, anti-regime bumper stickers. We don't go to church and politely turn down the constant invitations we get to attend here in the Bible Belt. In fact, I'm Pagan. We are totally accepting of different lifestyles and have gay friends. We teach our children that we're all human beings, regardless of race or religion - and my children attend public school and love to talk. We're vehemently and outspokenly against the Iraq war, and my husband is an Army veteran. I've bought countless books that are anti-Bush, anti-fascism, anti-theocracy, as well as books on paganism and Wicca. I've checked out books along the same vein from the library. I regularly visit websites dealing with the same topics and post my uncensored thoughts on a few different message boards. I discuss issues in email, chat and instant messenger with my online friends. I'm listed as a supporter and contributer of democratic causes. I've signed petitions for everything from 'Not In My Name' to union support. I'm open in my support of decriminalizing marijuana. I could go on and on.

We've joked for a long time about how we're probably on some master "Pinko Commie Traitor" list and how Ashcroft rifles through our trash. It's starting to feel like it might not be a joke. Now I'm considering the possibility that we might actually need to protect ourselves at some point. I'm really trying not to go all tinfoil here, but it's pretty damn clear that far more people in this country than I realized hate me and everything I stand for. Sadly, most of the people in the government from the highest of offices to the lowliest of positions appear to feel that way too. That our civil liberties are slipping away and will continue to do so is not lost on me either.

I'm really pissed that this is making me question my own personal morals, especially since I worry that I'm being irrational. I'm the first to admit I'm an absolute mess today. But then again, I wonder if I AM being irrational. I'm seriously considering taking some firearm safety lessons and purchasing some guns. My god, has it come to this? Is anyone else out there in the same boat, as far as your personal opposition to owning guns, feeling this way too?

[slackmaster]

1. Please learn how to handle them safely and store them responsibly

I keep my gun collection locked up in a 50 cubic foot safe.

Even if you have no children in your home, I cannot overemphasize the importance of protecting firearms from theft. Anyone who steals your gun is guaranteed to misuse it.

[Ready4Change]

8. If I may, I'll second that.

If you're from a hunting family its possible you already know the importance of that. But just incase a reminder doesn't hurt, and I never mind it when my friends remind ME of it.

[nonconformist]

15. Absolutely

If I do this (still a big IF) I would definitely take safety courses and keep firearms locked up and separate from ammunition.

[bill]

26. If I may,

An unloaded weapon is nothing but a club. If you have kids then it's almost manditory that ammo and firearms be kept separately.

[fudge stripe cookays]

2. Don't worry nc.

I'm right there with you.

reprehensor wanted to buy a Glock a few years ago and I begged him not to because I hate guns. But right now, I would do just about anything to protect my home and my family.

I live in Texas, and have no idea what these stupid, racist, homophobic, Christo-fascist bastards are capable of.

I drive by a shooting range every day and seriously considered taking some lessons. That is, until they put a Bush/Cheney sign out front. Now I'd need to find another place for them.

But rest assured, you're NOT the only one.
FSC

[Midlodemocrat]

3. How about using the sign for target practice? :)

[fudge stripe cookays]

11. Well, if I had the gun NOW,

and if they hadn't already pulled it in, that would have been a great idea! :D

FSC

[Midlodemocrat]

16. Too bad...then use their cars :) Just kidding

[Edmond Dantes]

4. I think you are better off learning a martial art.

Weapons can always be confiscated. Learn to fight with your hands, feet, elbows, knees, and common household objects. Learn where to deliver your strikes for maximum impact on an assailant.

In ancient Japan, farmers were prohibited from owning weapons. They learned how to use staffs (bo and jo), sickles and even boat oars!

You may never have to use these skills. But it will help tremendously in building a sense of safety/security.

signed,
learning martial arts at age 45+

[manic expression]

23. I would reccomend

Escrima (aka Kali), which uses simple short sticks and knives. Knowing a martial art would be great, but it does take a long time and a lot of patience/hard work to get proficient.
signed,
learning martial arts at age 16

[Edmond Dantes]

25. LOL, I cannot dispute your point!

I know I have a long way to go and I wish I had started much sooner.
But I am still learning a lot and enjoying it immensely.

[nonconformist]

29. That is a great idea

We should all, as a family, start taking martial arts lessons. One thing I worry about is my kids being harassed and bullied because of our views, since we live in a small town that is overwhelmingly fundie. Since I can't very well (and would never) send them off "packin'", it's probably not a bad idea for them to have some training on how to protect themselves.

What a crazy country we live in.

[Edmond Dantes]

34. I'm glad you like it.

I wrestled with this issue for a long time as I personally did not want to purchase a gun.

I think your kids would benefit in many ways, as "Ape" suggested. And training as a family would be great fun, too.

[Enraged_Ape]

32. I enthusiastically second the martial arts idea

I am an enthusiastic supporter of the 2nd Amendment, but the fact is that no matter how many guns you have, those who would eventually come after you have more and bigger ones.

On the other hand, a martial arts program will give you a world of other benefits you can't get from gun ownership. It does wonders for self-image and self-esteem. It profoundly changes you in physical, mental, and spiritual ways. These benefits will come match faster, and be much more useful to you, in the short run.

[PotatoBoy]

38. Yes..plus it will keep you in good shape too. n/t

[theorist]

5. You are not being irrational.

We are currently living with a government that chooses fear over comfort when communicating with its people. Their crimes are egregious, and their politics are divisive. They've constructed the current political climate, and made you, and many other liberally-minded Americans feel guilty for their positions. This is not an indictment on your morals. I would abhor you not to question your vision for this country and what you want for your children.

This is the United States of America. You hold a set of morals and values that you feel may need to be defended with a firearm. These last two sentences don't seem to jive with me, but you must do what you need to do in order to feel secure. Please buy a gun if you think it will help.

Oh, and this may interest you:

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm

[nonconformist]

13. Thanks for the link

So sad it's come to this, and maybe I'll feel differently later - but right now it seems like a good idea. One has to wonder how long it will be until the burning times come back and I think all Pagans should be concerned about that. We all know the BFEE has no love for atheists and pagans and doesn't think they're true Americans.

[qs04]

6. Good idea

"I'm really trying not to go all tinfoil here, but it's pretty damn clear that far more people in this country than I realized hate me and everything I stand for."

And a lot of them endorse violence and murder against people not of their political persuasion, with emphasis on those left-leaning. I'd consider it a good idea even if that weren't the case, but maybe that's just because I grew up in Oakland, CA.

[Union Thug]

7. I agree with the above advice...learn to use them safely.

Yes! I am a lefty with a fairly respectable number of guns. The one piece of advice I have for anyone who chooses to own a gun is to get trained properly. Also, get to the range often so that you become competent to handle the gun that you choose.

It's a serious decision, so please treat it as such.

Other than that, I think its a great idea for liberals to re-embrace the second amendment (I know the flames are coming.. putting on asbestos suit).

[goddess40]

9. If we all start buying assault weapons

then the right wing fascist will ban them. I've thought about it myself and I have always been a no gun in my house person. Like all democrats I agree with the right to bear arms and my only proviso is that the owner be responsible for what that gun does.

The democrats can't play nice anymore when it comes to the rights lies - when one is uttered we have to use strong language none of this mislead, stretch the truth crap. Call a lie a lie.

[Killer Poodle]

10. Funny that you posted this. Several friends and myself are going out soon

to buy a couple of guns. I personally have never owned one. But now.. Im not sure I want to be without one. Another friend who is an experienced gun owner is taking a group of four of us out this weekend.

[VLC98]

12. I know where you're coming from.

I'm English and have lived in the US for 9 years on and off. I think hunting is wrong and I don't like guns period, but that is just the way most British people are brought up, so piss off freepers. My husband has mentioned getting a gun a few times during our 17 year marriage, but I am the boss in my house. (I think he knew it would cause more problems than it would solve, and he is a wonderful husband).

Since the shocking defeat of John Kerry, (and we stupidly thought it would be a landslide), my hubby has repeated his desire to own a shotgun. I think he may be playing on my emotions, although he is upset too, but I'm scaring myself by secretly agreeing with him. I don't even know who I might have to protect my family from, but I feel very alienated, particularly because we are a military family. Like you, I feel most of America hates me and what I stand for. I'm against the war, agnostic, pro-choice and I support gay marriage. I don't even eat meat, what kind of a freak am I?

[fudge stripe cookays]

17. A very nice one, I'm sure.

Freaks unite! :hug:
FSC

[VLC98]

18. I like to think so! Thanks FSC. n/t

[ET Awful]

14. As an Army veteran who hasn't had a gun around in well over a decade

I too am considering it. I have long been in favor of limiting access to some types of weapons, background checks, etc. But I will say this. I served my country for over 8 years, and I will NOT let the ideals that I served for die. Those ideals are in grave danger now and will be under attack for at a bar minimum the next 2 years, and potentially much, much longer.

[luaneryder]

22. Fellow vet here

who is now armed. I feel threatened just by being labeled progressive. If I feel that way I cannot imagine how the black, brown, any ethnicity except white, non christian, gay and lesbian (unless you're Mary Cheney) citizens feel.

[FeelinGarfunkelly]

30. interesting proposition

You know, it would almost be like a sweet revenge. The NRA keeps talking about how we need that 2nd amendment sooo bad without any limits.. I'm not proposing a war against the administration, but.. "desperate times.." And what was all that jazz that Thomas Jefferson was saying about using blood to water the tree of liberty or something?

But safety first. Always have the proper training before buying a gun. And I'd just stay away from handguns. Go for the hunting rifles that us dems apparently like to take away from my red-state people.

[oc2002]

19. I am buying a M1 Garand this weekend....and extra ammo clips.

yeah, I told my freind that if Bush won, the shit will hit the fan sooner(most likely) or later.

Be prepared. I will gladly kill kill kill to protect myself when the economy colapses and resource riots break out.

Get ready, get armed, cause its comin. If you wait, your screwed.

[immoderate]

20. Don't forget legal training

I own a gun. A good friend got me into it and trained me. He gave me a stack of six books to read. One of the most important was about the legal implications of using the gun.

Even if you are right when you defend yourself with a gun, you may be subject to criminal charges and that could be a nightmare, getting arrested, posting bail, hiring a lawyer, etc.

Furthermore, you could be sued by your "victim" even if he is a criminal, and liable for damages that you cause. Being innocent in a criminal charge does not immunize you to civil suit. Ask O.J.

I agree with the poster who said you should learn a martial art. Your gun will not prevent you from being attacked, and it will not likely be in your hand when you are. So it will do you no good. Some bo-jutsu training will allow you to use an umbrella or cane as an effective weapon. And it can be in your hand all the time.

My gun is a fun toy. But I only consider using at the range or away from civilization. And only for targets, not living things. The idea of confronting someone with a gun should not be taken lightly. You are risking more trouble than it is worth.

--IMM

[camero]

21. Don't buy one but get trained to handle them

Buying one will just draw unwanted attention to you. I would get some firearm training myself if I had the money.

[flobee1kenobi]

24. I also have no problem

with guns. The 2nd amendment, in my opinion, should never be altered in any way. But a waiting period and a more thorough backround check is definitely needed. 2 weeks ago, I went out and bought a rifle. It was an ak-47, and I bought it looking to make some money on it, thinking that after Kerry won, the AWB would be renewed and the Price would skyrocket. Well, we know who won. I'm now thinking about getting some ammo and going to the range to try it out. I've seen them fired but never fired one myself, and I could probably use some target practice. After all, who knows what the future holds with W in power?
BTW-it is scary how fast you can buy a gun! it took me 1/2 an hour and 300 bucks

[Romulus]

28. *please* be sure you take a safety class BEFORE you go

You didn't say right out, but it seems that you are a first timer - at the minimum you haven't fired that rifle yet.

I URGE you to be sure you know what you are doing before you cause live ammo to be anywhere near that thing. The shop where you bought it should be able to help you find a basic firearms safety class in your area.

[amazona]

27. I'm thinking the same

While I don't think my gun will protect me from being rounded up in a concentration camp scenario, it could protect me against home invasion by hate-filled religious hysterics.

Martial arts is for exercise; I have not seen any evidence that it is a convincing form of self-defense for a tiny woman of my size who does not have time to get years of training. I think many who study martial arts are kidding themselves about their capacity for self-defense.

I always have the impression that handguns are not always great about hitting where you intend, but plenty of pioneer women defended themselves with ordinary shotguns and I imagine I can too.

[immoderate]

40. Martial arts includes guns too.

I suggested being trained with a bo (stick) about two feet long. Why do you think so many retail establishments keep a small bat behind the counter? It does not require the extensive training of open hand. And a stick can be kept accessible while a gun should be locked up.

A shotgun is the best fire arm for home defense. Get the lowest power round you can find. Get enough practice to use it with confidence.

Realize that if you defend yourself with a gun, you must be willing to use it. Many people can't. You don't want it to fall into the hands of your attacker, which is worse than no gun at all.

Do not take this gun stuff lightly. It's more profound than the impressions people get from watching TV.

--IMM

[bling bling]

31. I've been discussing it with my husband, too.

[necso]

33. May I suggest a nice

American made Ruger Mini-14 (5.56x45). Nato 5.56x45 is a very nice round and relatively inexpensive. It is also very common in this hemisphere and can be "scrounged" at need. (A lot of people hate 5.56, BTW.)

People call the Mini-14 an assault rifle, but by definition an assault rifle is fully automatic, the Mini-14 is not, and fully automatic weapons have been restricted for some time (nothing to do with the AWB).

AK's are also nice, but buy a good one -- there is a lot of junk out there. I am not crazy about 7.62x39 myself, although 7.62x51 (or x63) is very good. A Galil is an absolutely wonderful weapon, but pricey and not American made (as far as I know).

A good gun show (pay cash) will also have many (nice) accessories. I like a nice folding, front-pistol-grip "combat" stock and thirty round clips myself, but state laws vary, so check them out.

The Chinese ammo sucks (it jams), so buy American -- there are plenty of sites where you can find reviews of different manufacturers' ammo. And either at gun shows or online (check your local laws) you can buy large quantities for a decent price. Don't worry about all the fancy stuff -- it all makes holes.

If you are rolling in money, a nice 12 ga shotgun (00 buckshot man myself) and a .45 ACP (SOF ammo tests, as I remember them, show unjacketed rounds to have the best performance -- but use jacketed rounds for practise fire, lead is a bitch to clean) are good to have around. Some people like 9mm, but overpenetration can be a problem, so I prefer the old standby. (But 9mm is ok.) In any event, get some extra clips, store most unloaded, and leave out a round or two in the loaded ones so as not to stress the spring too much and prevent feed problems, and rotate loaded/unloaded clips. There is also nothing wrong with a good (scoped) hunting rifle, .270, .243 and 30-06 are all nice (one of your neighbors might well have an extra one he wouldn't mind selling, in accordance with local laws of course). Also get a good cleaning kit(s) -- you can often add different sized brushes, etc, to the same cleaning rod. Of course, I have several.

Nothing wrong with guns -- it's all in how you use them. Our forefathers, you know, were generally real big on guns... something about defending their freedoms. And it is probably why we lost the lost two, you know.

But don't get me started. And no, I don't want to start a pissing contest. Consider it some friendly advice -- and one man's opinion. Some of those neighbors of yours will probably have different ones.

And I suppose that some of you still find this offensive. Time you woke up, I think... And sorry to say.

I like this link.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/243_service_rifle.htm

[dand]

36. I own a 9 millimeter and a .357 magnum

I consider them insurance against Fascists, all they need to know is that you own a gun, they are all cowards. I doubt that I will ever need them. They give me peace of mind, make sure you get a concealed weapons permit, and don't hesitate to take it with you when you leave home.

[necso]

39. Varying degrees of difficulty on the permit.

And I forgot 7mm magnum (in my original post), an especial favorite of mine.

...And I ain't saying what I own.

Oh, and I like a good wheel gun myself. 357/38 is good.

[Mick Knox]

35. If the gov comes after you, a gun wont help you

Unless you are planning on using it on yourself.

They got more and better guns than you.

You gonna shoot it out with Gov agents?

If you do, it will just make their day.

[nonconformist]

41. No, but when the fundies decide to start burning witches again

or a group of drunken rednecks decide to come fuck with the "fag lovin' people that live down yonder", or the stock market crashes and there's mass looting, or a group of god-fearing church goers decide that my children are being corrupted and they need to intervene, or any other number of scenarios that I can imagine and most importantly the ones I can't - yes, a gun would be useful.

Sometimes all you have to do is show you have a gun for it to be effective. And since, at present anyway, the government couldn't do anything do me for anything I do besides harass and monitor me (or label me a terrorist and ship me off to Gitmo, but that's too terrifying to even contemplate), that doesn't eliminate the possibility of that information getting into the hands of people that would go outside of the law.

Hatred is a powerful force. I don't put anything past them anymore.

If they start labeling us all as 'insurgents' and start corralling us into camps, there isn't a lot I can do about that. I'm not about to go down in some blaze of glory when martial law is in effect and they're breaking down my door with an AK-47 in hand.

[PotatoBoy]

37. Gun control should be looked at...

Currently we have a waiting period, and in some states, you have to have a FOID card.

Biiiig freaking deal.

What they should do is have each person pass three tests:

1) IQ
2) Mental health
3) Criminal history

If those three things check out OK, then you wait a week, then you get your gun.

[carnie_sf]

42. I've had a .35 remington and a twelve guage for a long time

Still a liberal though