whatever happened to No Surrender.

[cspiguy]

can't tell me that an Ohio recount of punch cards could not find 136,000 undervotes/overvotes or dimpled chads. Sheesh. Dean would have screamed and kept the fight. Every vote counted, my cheney!

[splat]

1. Maybe Springsteen should run himself n/t

[demokatgurrl]

2. Beats me. Last night

I heard Donna Brasile on the radio. Her take was that in order to win Ohio, Kerry would have to take 75% of the provisional ballots.
Why does that seem so goddam unlikely? And anyway, they should be counted! WTF happened to Kerry's promise that every vote would count, and every vote would be counted?

[Pachamama]

5. I saw the lines at the polls of the people using provisional ballots

....they were Kerry supporters....newly registered people or people who didn't receive their absentee ballot....they were people who were minorities and African Americans. Kerry I'm sure would have taken 75%, maybe higher....

I don't understand why they conceded.....I'm as angry at Kerry for doing this....I stood in the plaza behind him in Cleveland on Monday night, right after Bruce played his song dedicated to him about "No Surrender"....WTF happened?

:grr:

[benburch]

3. I agree.

I loved Kerry right up to the point where he conceded.

[Uzybone]

4. This is stupid.

first of all the ballots will be all counted. Second, are you saying that Kerry should have gone up there and asked for a recount of dimpled chads???

[Pachamama]

7. Yes!!!! He should have!

:grr:

[havocmom]

9. Da 'mama is right!

You don't just give up when people need their rights defended! And that is what this boiled down to: The right to vote was attacked in just about every important place. We knew that was the neocon strategy. To give up that fight so easily was the real heart-breaker. That was the defense we needed now. Take care of Osama later. Defend Americans' rights FIRST.

just the way it looks to dis momma!

[Pachamama]

10. Kerry claimed it was time to come together as one country & Bush is

emphasizing it too....was this their pact? I'm serious....it makes absolutely no sense what so ever that they would have been taking the fight for the people to support them and that they would fight to the end, only to suddenely concede....Or is it that Kerry and his campaign realized that no matter what they did, Rove and Bush were in charge and had control of the numbers no matter what and it would only hurt "them" in the end, so better to protect Kerry's reputation. I can't explain it any other way....I'm mad....I'm mad that our country has been stolen by the Boy King and that they figured out a way to "legitimize" it and that they now can try to spoon feed to the American People that its because the "American People" have spoken and they have a mandate and its about "moral values".....What about healthcare? Isn't that a moral value? What about helping people have jobs so they can feed and care for their families? Does that qualify as a moral value? I think that they are cleverly explaining their victory (in the face of an utter failure of an administration) by claiming its "moral values" that became the most important reason (how else could they explain it) and to then now move forward in their anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-civil rights policies and call it the "mandate" from the "Moral Majority"....And to further "de-moralize" the people like us that dared to speak out and work to de-throning them, they have let us know that they can defeat us and there is nothing we can do - they now control the Senate, the House, the White House and soon enough for decades to come, the Supreme Court and the various District and Federal courts across the country. Don't know about you Havocmom, but this mommy ain't buying....I was out there the last year+ on the frontlines and while I fully recognize that the right wing was whipping up their congregations into a religious frenzy over gays and abortion, I do not believe that they outnumbered the Americans like you and me trying to save our country and the future of our children....This was to purposely put people on notice that we cannot beat them. They now have officially "legitimized" their theocracy and rule since one of the things that clearly the Boy King had going against him last time around was the "legitimacy" of his rule....Now they can claim otherwise and no one can "prove" it....We can't give up, and believe me, I'm one that will never quit, but it is a pretty hard thing to imagine us whipping up even more support than we already had, seeing how this outcome was. My only suggestion is that we continue to be active, hold our media and elected officials accountable and make sure we stick together....

[havocmom]

11. Lots of questions & no real answers at present.

While doing mundane chores last evening, the glimmer of a thought danced across that part of my mind that usually sounds insane but too often proves to be correct. Last night's thought: Is it a Skull & Bones thing? Whatever the answer, I swear to all that is sacred to me that I will never let a past member of that little clique get my hopes up again.

Also wondering what threat was made.

Hey, I am not young. Nor am I healthy. Have not got much to lose. Makes me one crazy ass loose cannon. I will take a lot of risks to get Americans to wake up. Don't really care who gets annoyed with me at this point. I'm gonna be a real brassy, noisey pain in the RW side.

Nothing like a walk in a brisk fall wind to clear the head. It is especially motivating when taken with a very young friend. Reminds me who we are fighting for. I want the world to be better when my young pal reaches adulthood. I will stay in it for her sake, because she gives me a reason.

[cspiguy]

12. well - every time they opened the boxes in FLA the Gore votes

went up - by 100's or thousands. I don't know how it happened but it should not be that different in OH.

[Kazak]

6. Yeah, and didn't they claim...

they would declare victory regardless of the outcome? WTF!?!

[emulatorloo]

8. What, then, does Kerry mean by "sooner than we may think"

and why are he and Edwards both emphasizing that all the votes will be counted?

<snip>

I believe that what we started in this campaign will not end here. And I know our fight goes on to put America back to work and make our economy a great engine of job growth. Our fight goes on to make affordable health care an accessible right for all Americans, not a privilege. Our fight goes on to protect the environment, to achieve equality, to push the frontiers of science and discovery, and to restore America's reputation in the world. I believe that all of this will happen -- and sooner than we may think -- because we're America. And America always moves forward.

<snip>

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_1103.html

[genius]

13. I agree. I trusted Kerry and he betrayed every one of us.

[DeepModem Mom]

14. Do you think Republican control of the courts might have been a factor --

any battle begun would have ended up in the courts, even to the USSC, where it would have been lost, as last time? I'm not saying we should not have fought -- just that they might have weighed into the decision that the ultimate outcome would almost certainly not been in our favor.

[PotatoBoy]

15. Let's go for Dean in 2008. and Clark too. n/t

[FeelinGarfunkelly]

16. John Kerry did everything we asked him to do

Even when we were down in August, he came roaring back, tearing Shrub to shreds in the debates. He clarified his position on Iraq. He hit every rally with so much energy--it was almost hard to tell if it was the same John Kerry that started the whole thing 2 years ago. We can't depend on conspiracy theories that "we really won". Maybe we did. The evidence that I've seen just doesn't add up. That's why Kerry conceded. We went through a time when we didn't know who the President was. Kerry saw that we didn't need for that again. He gave an honorable speech, and we should be proud of him. He also said that every vote is going to be counted. Votes matter. Lawyers don't. In the eyes of red america, lawyers = sore loser. Lawyers = Democrats. Democrats = Sore losers.

We know we have given it our all. We have to continue the fight and hold Dubya and repugs responsible for all the lives lost in Iraq. It's time to regroup, find someone with the skills like Bill, and take 'em to task in 2006 and 2008. But don't blame John F. Kerry. He did it all for us, and we did it all for him and the party.

[deutsey]

17. It's on the scrapheap, right next to "I will fight for you"

:eyes:

[JaneQPublic]

18. Kerry's punctuation nuances

To the issue of Counting Every Vote, we thought Kerry said:
-- "No Surrender!"

But in fact, his answer was:
-- "No. Surrender!"