How do you feel about the Earth Liberation Front?

[Alex146]

[Clete]

1. I think they set back environmental progress immensely

by their tactics. Vandalism is never welcome anywhere, nor does it advance the cause of those of us who are working for meaningful legislation in environmental causes. It makes us look like the Birkenstock wearing, trash leaving hippies, the opposition like to paint us as. It also puts real activists in danger.

[DealsGapRider]

17. Well said.

n/t

[salin]

19. I have read their actions are directly counterproductive

We have had several "ELF" attacks locally. After one there was an article that looked at several big ELF attacks, what they attacked and later developments. In each case the community had been divided about 'development' in the area - and thus there were some forces for better planning and stopping some projects. After the attacks local support swung behind the property owners - AND the developers. In the cases described the before the attack and after the attack $ invested in development grew tremendously. It seems that ELF attacks not only prevent the development they seek to slow/stop - but escalate that very development in the aftermath.

[mike_c]

20. people used to say the same things about...

...Greenpeace and Earth First!. I think that in most movements there is a place for direct action, if for no other reason than to keep the movement's objectives in the public focus, even if the means of doing so are a bit counterproductive. The environmental movement is NOT going to collapse, or be marginalized, or whatever because the ELF burns cheesy suburban sprawl or hummer dealerships, and some otherwise disinterested people WILL agree that while their methods might not be "good," their objectives are. I can't see how this harms the environmental movement-- quite the opposite. It's a diverse movement, and it contains some extremists. I wonder what Ed Abbey would have said. Anyone know whether he ever said anything about ELF before he died? Was ELF even active then?

The terrorist label that gets thrown around is just as counterproductive, IMO. Throwing a little "terror" into the economy of suburban sprawl developers, their bankers, and their insurers is not altogether a bad thing, however.

[Clete]

24. Earth First ! hahahahaha.

I was hosting in a Forest Service campground in Idaho where Earth First! decided to conduct a protest. The rangers and workers had such an environmental mess to clean up after they were gone, it hardly helped the cause of lumber sale they were protesting, which was in the process of going through the courts anyway and was cancelled, not because of them. Of course this was during Clinton not Bush. These people really don't know how to camp environmentally. Not only that the Rangers had their hands full getting them to hospitals for mishaps and getting water to them.

Not only that in other areas where they spiked trees, it was the poor miminum wage mill workers who were losing eyes and being stabbed and killed by the spikes that were embedded in the logs which the saws would turn into a sharp missiles. I don't know about Greenpeace, but if they use tactics like these they are not on my favored list. I am a member of the Sierra Club. They take a more rational approach by challenging and changing laws and then making sure they are enforced. Gangland tactics aren't used like the extremists. I think we get a lot more done too, in the long run.

[salin]

25. but when their attacks - prompt exponential growth

in what they were trying to prevent.. that is a good strategy?

[Llewlladdwr]

2. Terrorists.

Pure and simple. This organization needs to be eradicated.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Oh really?

And how do you propose we do that? Send 'em to Gitmo? :eyes:

[Llewlladdwr]

14. Or any other prison handy.

Surely you don't mean to suggest that you applaud the destruction of others personal property do you?

[mike_c]

23. just to set the record straight....

I DO applaud the destruction of "others personal property" when they use that property to the detriment of the larger community. Americans need to get over the notion that "just because I own the land, I can do anything I want with it." The bottom line is that most of the projects attacked by ELF serve no nobler purpose than destruction of habitat in order to further line some land developer's pockets. The world is getting too crowded to continue ignoring the larger needs of communities whenever someone wants to use their land to make a buck.

[pasadenaboy]

28. So who makes that decision?

A small group of extremists?

Although I agree with them in principle, you can't destroy other people's property under the guise of doing it to protect the public, when the public disagrees with you.

[Llewlladdwr]

29. We had to destroy the village in order to save it.

Sound familiar? Perhaps you need to get over your attitude that "hey, I don't own the land, so I'll tell those that do what they can use it for." If you're that concerned with the needs of the larger community then start a group to buy land being considered for development and let it remain fallow.

Besides which, has ELF actually ever accomplished anything with their terrorism? To the best of my knowledge they've never halted a single project they've targeted. The only thing they've done is destroy more habitat (new lumber gotta come from some where) and dump more pollutants into the environment. Is this kind of logic common to enviromental groups?

[RichV]

4. They're not helpful.

They set back their cause more than they help it. Make those willing to work within the system look like extremists by association.

[ButterflyBlood]

5. doesn't exist

just some corporate insurance fraud while trying to discredit the environmentalist movement at work.

[Clete]

10. You may be on to something there.

I get solicited for donations by many groups, but I don't remember ever getting one from them. Just how do they fund themselves?

[w4rma]

6. I've heard of ELF but know too little about them to make an opinon. (n/t)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. I think it's mostly fake

The is no "Earth Liberation Front" there is just some guy with a website that reads the newspaper stories, and when he sees a story about vandalizing SUVs or releasing animals, he will "claim responsbility" in the name of ELF, even though he says he doesn't get any messages from the people who supposedly did the vandalism.

It's a PR campaign to discredit the environmental movement, nothing more. Often these cases turn out to be insurance fraud, where the property owner arsons the property for insurance money, and blames hippie "eco-terrorists".

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Animals is ALF

Animal Liberation Front...

[ButterflyBlood]

12. yep, that's pretty much what i said

[RainDog]

16. where I live

there are people who claim to be both ELF and ALF. This is not the northwest, btw. We're one of the few areas in the country with what is considered an active group.

If they, and their counterpart, ALF, do not exist, then who planted a bomb in my city... eleven blocks from downtown, in fact?

Do you have people active in your area? Maybe that's why you don't think they exist.

[ButterflyBlood]

21. some lone crazy nut?

from what I've heard from "them" anyway, they instruct to ensure that no one is ever put killed or even injured. But I live in Minnesota, a pretty environmentalist state, and I haven't heard of any such things happening here.

let's say I'm a businessman who wants to make some extra money. So I burn down some warehouse with tools for development in some area that probably wasn't going to make much money anyway, and then spraypaint ELF nearby. But oh no, that could never happen.

[RainDog]

22. I don't doubt there have been crooks who have exploited

the existence of ELF and ALF.

But if ALF claims they did something, and nothing actually came of their attempt, how does that support your idea?

They claim to exist here, both ELF and ALF, but if you chose to think they don't exist, obviously that's your right.

[salin]

27. Try this google

and tell us if you think it is one lone guy going for development.

ELF and BLoomington

Here are a few items that will come up. There have been more. Keep in mind along with actual news items will be a zillion discussion groups either around the city or around the topic... because the two items just keep coming up together.

ELF claims fire GOPs headquarters;
ELF claimed credit for fire that destroyed a house in a new development;
ELF incident - at Sims Poultry Company (RainDog refers to this in her posts);
Tree spiking suspect refuses to answer questions (suspected to be linked to ELF);

[TahitiNut]

8. "Hayduke Lives!"

Admirable ends; questionable means.

[Forkboy]

18. what Tahiti said

great book too!

[RainDog]

9. terrorists who

have put people's lives in danger and hurt the environment by their tactics in the area where I live.

ALF is a terrorist organization too.

ALF planted a bomb at a chicken transport place (no chickens were killed there) which was in a poor area of my city. Some asshole, in other words, was willing to endanger poor children, and adults, in order to keep trucks out of commission.

That's so compassionate toward the human animal...

The police were able to keep the bomb from going off, but if I knew someone was in ALF where I live, I would think I was doing people a favor to get them off the streets.

Extremists of the left or the right do not have solutions, imho.

[Fenris]

13. Mixed bag

The idea is admirable, but the execution is poor.

[KFC]

15. Just a club of arsonists and vandals

Firebugs that use the "earth" as an excuse to torch things. No real philosophy here, just a very strong urge to set things on fire.

Criminals, in a word.

[oldleftguy]

26. People are living without healthcare and I'm supposed to care...

care about ELF?