Counting votes: Have most of us moved on? What happened to "never again".

[bigtree]

"No votes left behind" That was our mantra. We have failed so far in creating so much as a buzz out there about uncounted votes. Why do we have to accept this talk of a mandate when the totality of uncounted votes could bring the popular vote to even or in Kerry's favor. Most of the provisional ballots that were issued were done so in minority communities to herd Democrats into a black hole where officials had no intention of recording them

Individual challenges in individual states are the most effective way to get the job done. But we need to exert the same pressure here that we used against Sinclair, or against the Smearvets. I don't see it happening. It's looking like more apathy than action on this and I fear we will lose the window of opportunity.

Kerry has the legal resources to carry through on any fight we bring to him. Why aren't we organizing our efforts? The appeals here don't seem to be getting our maximum attention. It's the same old gnashing of teeth and moaning here, all of which can be alleved by a hard assault on the uncounted votes around the nation

[goclark]

1. Let's roll, we have the info Palast and others

are saying the same thing.

If the situation was in reverse, would the Recons be sitting and combing their hair?
Hell no!
They would try every trick in the book to tell everyone!

[wurzel]

2. Why isn't Kerry using these resources?

[Spangle]

14. Kerry rolled over.

At this point, he is dead in the water and NO HELP to us. He gave up the option to speak about the election. The media would make all sorts of noise and the message would be lost.

The only thing we can do is gather evidence to use in court against the BBV makers. Since Kerry ran for the door so quick, he didn't even help with that at all. THAT is what makes Kerry's actions unforgivable.

Wants to protect his political future. HA! Can't do that if you can't get your votes out of BBV!

Our next option might be the DNC. And other big leaders. Any willing to step up to the plate? Anyone thinking for running for President in 2012 better be taking notice right now.

First we have to wrap our minds around what happened and accept that Kerry isn't with us on this issue. No time for tears for kerry. Bigger issues going on here.

[bobbieinok]

3. an organization.....a place to organize on DU?????

[bigtree]

5. c'mon

we are drifting into apathy here. We need a frenzy of energy. Ya can't convince me that we have achieved critical mass on this. Folks are getting distracted by Bush's push foward and the electoral college hasn't even elected him. I'm just one guy. I've got to go to work now. I just want to see some more action, especially from folks who come from close states where votes are in dispute. We can get behind any action that they bring up, much like in the election, with the same enthusiasm. Here's one place to start:

http://nov3.us/

[Spangle]

4. Your right

That is WHY we donated to Kerry and his lawyer team.

I feel cheated and let down. But I'm not giving up. I'm just not going to put my hopes in a canidate until the problem is solved. I'm going to focus on BBV. And I think we should pressure those democrats that ARE elected to join the band wagon. Those that don't.. they will wish they had.. when it comes time for re-election. I'm not lifting ONE FINGER for anyone who hasn't all ready proven devoted to cleaning up this mess. No more false promises.

What's Bush's moto... Either your with us, or against us. Hmm..

These politica dudes had better start right now raising money for BBV, putting pressure, etc... They better jump on board. Or don't ask for help later. Later will be to late.

Another words.. I've wised up.

[bigtree]

8. individuals can file these lawsuits and complaints

We can ask the Kerry camp for help. No reason why they would turn us down. We should be reaching out to those states that are still pursuing the counting of votes and giving our support. We should try to organize in our own communities to provide solid blocs of support. I've been in tough with the coalition in my community who coalesed against the war. We need to keep the pressure on and ramp it up!

[bettyellen]

6. action alert- thought i would share

ACTION ALERT * UNITED FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE
http://www.unitedforpeace.org | 212-868-5545
To subscribe, visit http://www.unitedforpeace.org/email
===========================================
DON’T MOURN, ORGANIZE
In the wake of Bush’s election, time to regroup and take the long view:
The bad news is obvious and awful,
but the good news is that our movement continues to grow
===========================================

Here at United for Peace and Justice we share with millions of people around the country – and millions more around the world – a sense of horror about what happened on election day. The largest grassroots electoral mobilization in memory was not strong enough to unseat George W. Bush. We are upset by the outcome, and disgusted that the politics of fear have been so fine-tuned by Karl Rove and company. We are outraged by the voter intimidation, vote suppression, and other tactics of disenfranchisement used before and on November 2.

But we are not totally surprised by the outcome of this election. For more than 40 years the right wing has been planning, organizing, fund raising, and executing strategies for taking control of this country. With George W. Bush and the so-called “war on terror,” they have found the perfect instrument for consolidating their power.

We’ve known for a long time what we are up against. We worked with all our might to stop the U.S. from going to war against Iraq, but we could not prevent it, even with 10 million people taking to the streets simultaneously around the world on February 15, 2003. We have all been working hard to end that war and occupation and to bring the troops home, and even though the lies behind the war have been exposed, we have not yet succeeded.

At the same time, every day we are inspired by the outpouring of energy and creativity around the country. In the past few years the peace and justice movement has been re-ignited: vigils, rallies, and marches in hundreds of cities; a rich outpouring of cultural dissent; activism in schools, workplaces, and places of worship; and some of the most massive mobilizations our country has ever seen. Just this past August 29, at least 500,000 people marched in New York City on the eve of the Republican National Convention. And in these past two months vast numbers of people put their time into an unprecedented grassroots electoral mobilization, including voter registration, voter education, get-out-the-vote and election protection campaigns.

Our long-term hope lies in this grassroots upsurge, and to win, we need to take the long-term view. No, the Bush Agenda was not defeated on Nov. 2, and we share the frustration and anger of so many activists. But the truth is that the progressive social change community...the peace and justice movement...is not yet strong enough to successfully change those in power.

That does not mean we are giving up or going away. On the contrary: As we take a moment to catch our breath, and get some needed rest, we are already beginning to sort through the lessons of this election and our recent past. In the da

[bettyellen]

7. and another call to arms!! pass it along.........

CALL TO ACTION:

 

EVERY VOTE **MUST** BE COUNTED!

NO DISENFRANCHISEMENT!
 
It’s not over: As of the morning of November 3, 2004, the outcome of the 2004 presidential election has still not been determined, and we must not allow it to be determined until every one of our votes has been counted. The No Stolen Elections! campaign urges you to do whatever you can to ensure that this election is fair. There are as many as 250,000 provisional ballots in Ohio that have not been counted and there are many questions about the integrity of the election, which must be investigated. We urge you to take action today to defend our democracy!
 
  TAKE ACTION ON NOVEMBER 3:
 
*CALL ELECTION OFFICIALS IN OHIO TO DEMAND THAT ALL VOTES ARE COUNTED. Call the Ohio Secretary of State’s office and demand that all legal votes in Ohio, including provisional ballots, be counted.
 
  CONTACT: 614-466-2585
 
*SUPPORT THE PROTESTS IN OHIO. Many groups in Ohio are going to take to the streets today to demand that all votes in Ohio be counted, to demand that no one be disenfranchised and all voting irregularities be investigated. Tell everyone you know in Ohio to support these efforts, and consider going to Ohio yourself. See the call to action at www.indyvoter.org.
 
*KEEP ORGANIZING. Organize town hall meetings or other events within the next few days – or turn your planned Nov. 3 protests into public meetings – to discuss voting irregularities in your community, what happened nationally, and where do we go from here.

 

NO STOLEN ELECTIONS!

www.Nov3.US ~ Don't mourn, organize!

[bigtree]

9. These are great!

We need to go local. More local.

[bettyellen]

13. i finally started crying but i'm glad i shared something good before this

little breakdown i am experiencing. flipping between really angry and finally giving into tears.
tks for the good energy. at least i am starting get out of denial. shaking off the numbness.

[bettyellen]

12. i got an email from "move on" "Numbers Don't Lie!!! it pissed me off

so much, I mean... it was a reallly dumb thing to say after reading about the chads and the provos today. Not the caption I wanted to read today. I think it was supposed to be a thank you for getting out the vote, there was a send us a nice election story email box and i just went offf!!! i wanted to say where are the fucking dem lawyers.. i said pretty much all of te above from the original post.
after getting the wo activist emails, i feel a little betrayed by move on. but those motherfuckers said no voter behind. so i'm pretty pissed if they ain't planning to, I totally expect them to be on board with this. I want them and Barak Obama to join up and get a working punch card machine and a paper trail in every voting booth. I wantt them to take note of where people waited hours to vote and add more working macines. I want to know how the fuck absentee ballots arrived a month after their postmarks. And clear unified procedures for proper voter registrations, provos and absentees.
i have moved out of denial, and am really getting angry.

[Book Lover]

10. But the leader isn't leading

The task of cleaning up the vote-counting process isn't going to be solved during this window (which, I agree, still does exist and will probably slam shut once SNL airs whatever does about the election Saturday night) because everybody knew Kerry conceded on Wednesday morning. If he isn't going to visibly and strongly push the effort to count every vote, what chance will we have at real success?

My take is that we need to take on this long-term chore: making our county elections and secretaries of state offices and staff clean and fair. This is going to be a multi-election process, and it may take until the 2012 Presidential election for efforts to bear fruit, but it is achievable.

[bigtree]

11. The people, united . . .

It's up to us now.

[Book Lover]

15. Yes

I was addressing the one point that Kerry should lead the fight to get him into the White House, which he's not doing. We have to lead the fight to get every vote counted, which I and others think will also end up with Kerry in the White House. But I think it is a serious problem we have, that the Kerry folks, i.e. the Democratic Party establishment, are not fighting their battle.

[bigtree]

19. There is no president elected until the electoral college acknowledges

the tallied votes. Why in the world are we letting this go by. These appeals and complaints can be filed by individuals in the affected states. I am quite certain that the Kerry campaign would back any resonable claim with their defense fund. Neither Kerry nor Bush can declare this over just by giving a speech. These are our votes and we better start defending them NOW!

[bigtree]

16. c'mon folks

why did we bend so easily to this facist takeover? Kerry has 254 right? Bush 274. Just a couple of states or one big one could flip his 4 point electoral lead. Sad to see folks give up so easily. Protests are going on all over the nation. Where are we?

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Where we go from here:

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[bullimiami]

18. IF KERRY ROLLED OVER WE NEED TO ROLL HIM BACK OVER.

WE NEED HIM NOW. THIS IS WHAT WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT AND IT IS HERE.

CALL KERRY TODAY AND TELL THEM WE NEED HIM TO START TALKING ABOUT THE ELECTORAL FRAUD.

[bigtree]

20. In the meantime we need to do our jobs in our own states

We shouldn't just sit back and wait for politicos to act. We have the responsibility to look after our own votes. I don't remember the rallying cry going like, 'count all of the votes IF our nominee says so'. It was more like, 'Never again will we allow ourselves to be blocked out of the process by intimidation or fraud.'

Never again!