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What we're up against: extreme cognitive dissonance.

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 11:52 PM
Original message
What we're up against: extreme cognitive dissonance.
Got this from Daily Kos -- really puts it in a nutshell. Read it and weep...

http://dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/123623/378

What we face
by kos
Thu Nov 4th, 2004 at 09:36:23 PST

From an email:
I work at a domestic violence shelter in a rural conservative district in Mich. that is has had its economy gutted by NAFTA and where Christianity dominates the culture.

Yesterday while reflecting about 4 more years of Bush I was talking with a woman staying in the shelter. I will give her a fake name, lets call her Laura B. Laura is 28, pregnant, (never considered an abortion). She finished highschool and did a year of college before dropping out to have a couple of kids with her military husband. Living in Virginia on base with her autocratic mate (he doesn't allow the boys 3 and 4 to say "yeap" they have to answer "yes sir") drove her crazy and she was hospitalized for suicidal thoughts. Military dude divorced her and has custody.

She came home to Mom in Mich and ended up at our shelter to try and sort out her life. (Mom has no money either and her own problems.) We, like all secular agencies, have seen a steady erosion of funds.

Laura B. has found a job working in the kitchen at a local faith based Christian College. She makes $6/hour. She drives a dying Ford Escort wagon pays $2.15/gallon for gas. Her latest crisis is her insurance expired on Oct. 9 (her ex-partner cancelled policy). She needs to come up with $211 to get insurance for one month or face a $1,000 fine if she gets caught driving with no insurance. We have some public transportation, Dial-a Ride, minibus runs between 7 am and 6 p.m., M-F $1.50 one-way. She has to be at work at 6am.

She has been walking to work lately but it is about 2 miles she is 5 months pregnant, it is dark at 5 am, and winter is coming. Solution? Go begging at the churches who seem to have money for these things. They will give her the money if she attends bible school. So last night she was at bible school until 9 p.m.

She has never attended our domestic violence support groups as she is too tired at night and goes to bed early but the bible study was not optional.

She was excited about "God's message" when she came back.

This week she moves into low income subsidized housing. Her newest crisis is she has found out when the college is closed for the Christmas holiday (one month) she has no employment. She is hoping to find temporary employment as a seasonal retail worker if the Christmas sales are brisk to tide her over. She doesn't know what she will do when the baby is born, hopes she can work up till the last week (she is on her feet all day with this job). She will be eligible for subsidized daycare.

She voted for Bush because of his "family values."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

As Kos says, "I have nothing to add."

sw
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DIKB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. She got what she deserved
as will whoever else voted for this moron.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. One Of Those Fellas Sunk Deep In Justice, Are You?
"Justice is giving people what they deserve, and that is something no human being should be too eager to call for."

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. I'm sure Jesus has a golden seat at his feet for this poor soul
Probably right next to Allah and his virgins...

Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
(We usually ship same or next day by first class mail)



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GregD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. I'd change that RIP to 2000
We lost this battle in 2000... 2004 was just a test to see if what we believed was indeed a fact. I think the answer has been well demonstrated this week.

2 years of trying to pass legislation to require a paper trail, blocked by all but 7 Republicans of integrity, proved that they have no intention of releasing control ever again.

Just as PNAC plans to enforce global military and economic domination as far into the future as possible, it must be presumed that the pugs have the same determination with regard to their control of us, and only massive outcry on a very large scale might have a chance of influencing that. Short of that, I'm afraid the sheeple will simply go back into their blissful sheeple sleep.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. I thought about that, but that's old news
It seems like nothing short of a revolution will fix it now, but I hear ya. It was a simple matter of referencing the current most recent "election" because that's what's in the news and fresh in people's mind, or the coup, for which I already have many buttons.



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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
39. my wife has a FUCK BUSH button and has been wearing it since tues. nonstop
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punpirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm beginning to wonder if it isn't...
... cognitive impairment... chronic vitamin deficiency, or something. Part of it, certainly, comes from having such services always available--there's a belief, therefore, that they will always be there.

But, clearly, in this, there's no understanding of how policy affects individuals, let alone an understanding of who's been making the policies that have helped keep her off the streets and not begging for alms.

Very sad, actually. *sigh*
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Actually, this suggests a LACK of cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance is a psychological tension created when attitudes and behaviors are incongruent. We are motivated to relieve the tensions by changing our attitude or behavior. This example doesn't indicate much cognitive dissonance at all- dissonance doesn't occur because the individual is able to rationalize supporting Bush.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I think you're right. Maybe a better term would be "cognitive disconnect"
Not sure what the best term would be, but what struck me most about this story is that it is a prime example of the essential incapacity to recognize the larger forces at work that directly impact upon one's life.

The most ironic part of this story is that the woman is apparently expecting and counting on the availability of "subsidized daycare" after the birth of her child -- meanwhile voting for the very party that fully intends to do away with ALL such social safety nets. Also note the fact that she just moved into "subsidized housing".

I guess that seems pretty "dissonant" to me...

sw
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. It Is A Horrible Story, My Friend
And you have put your finger to the essential element, the inability to connect the larger social forces to the individual life that afflicts so many persons. It may be that attempts to remedy this may offer a profitable line of political action. People really are not trained to think in connective ways, and not many strike upon it naturally of their own accord. like anything else, it takes teaching and practice.

"Americans looked into the abyss, and fifty-one percent said: 'Hmmm...I wondr what's down there....'"
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Happy to see you, dear friend!
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 02:35 AM by scarletwoman
I was thinking about you earlier today, wondering how you were doing -- how lovely to see you pop in here!

For many a year now I have been tearing my hair out over the idiotic non-strategy of the Democratic leadership in NOT "teaching" -- making these connections visible to the electorate. I've never understood why they haven't been doing this.

Just presenting bits of information does nothing, you have to weave a story with it -- the whole parable thing, as it were.

I'm still brooding and ruminating and endeavoring to bring my thoughts into some sort of coherent order after Tuesday's shock. One idea I'm busily examining is that of giving up on the institutional Democratic party for the most part, in terms of being an effective agent of societal evolution.

I'm thinking that the nascent progressive structures that have been built up over the course of the last 4 years may, if properly tended and funded, prove to be highly effective vehicles for re-framing perceptions in the body politic -- in much the same way that the rise of "conservative" think tanks from the early 70's on set the terms of our national dialogue up to now.

I swing between cautious optimism and utter despair -- but in my most dispassionate moments, I do believe this can be done. I just don't see it getting done by the institutional Democratic party.

sw
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. A Pleasure To See You As Well, Ma'am
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 03:24 AM by The Magistrate
Abstaining from newspapers and other such distractions seems to help somewhat. It was a surprising, and hence particularly bitter loss. Sometimes you go into a scrap knowing it will not turn out well, though it must be fought all the same, and it feels a little different afterwards than when you have every reason to expect success, and things just go wrong.

You are right on your last point. Not just the Democratic Party, but no political party, is an effective agent of societal evolution (we may leave revolution out of the discussion for now). That is not their function; they are organizations aimed at securing office, which they can do only by securing large numbers of votes. The only way to change a political party is to change the society around it, so to speak: to alter the pool of voters among which it must fish, and perhaps even provide it new rods and bait to do it better.

That is what has happened with the Republican Party. It was not party policy that bought in the southern racists: a higher proportion of the Republican delegations to Congress voted for the first wave of Civil Rights legislation than of the Democratic delegations. It was the decision of Democratic national leadership to ignore its Southern arm, and the coincidence of Goldwater's probably principled opposition to the extension of Federal power, combined together, that did the trick. Nixon, realizing the thing was under way, simply capitalized on it with extraordinary ruthlessness. Nor was it Republican Party policy that brought in the religious rightists: these oganized themselves, and made of themselves a present to the Republican Party, and did so as a complete unit, leadership, grass-roots activists, and loyal voters all in a ready-made package. Reagan simply accepted them all tied up in a bow.

It seems to me this last is what we on the left must do with the Democratic Party, and that the organizing and work that has gone into this last campaign can serve as a good foundation for doing so. It has been demonstrated that great quantities of funds can be raised, a great many hard-working and passionate activists can be mobilized, and a great many voters can be delivered, by extra-party organizations of leftist stripe. It is important to hang on to this, and to build on it. When engaged in a war, and opposing an enemy with a superior technique and organization, the only way to win is to learn what the enemy does right, and learn to do it better by half.

"Americans looked into the abyss, and fifty-one percent said: 'Hmmm...I wonder what's down there....'"
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you! You've articulated what I meant exactly!
The big question, as I see it (for the moment, at least) is whether *our* organizations will continue to mobilize activists and maintain their cooperative interaction and sharing of resources. The "left" is historically notorious for fragmentation, a tendency which was really quite impressively overcome for this election campaign.

If we can hold this foundation, and build on it, I think we can raise up an unstoppable force. It comes down to who is willing to put in the hard work for the long run.

Off to bed now -- I look forward to further conversation anon...

sw
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That Is The Question, My Friend
And the answer to it really is up to us leftists. Left organizations, while always famous, as you say, for tendencies toward sectarian fragmentation, used to be, at least, equally renowned for self discipline and rigorous tactical analysis. There was, in the past, nothing at all soft or self-indulgent about leftists or left organizations. We simply must maintain the strategy of Popular Front, and remember the words of old Mr. Franklin at our nation's founding, that we must all hang together, or we shall surely hang seperately....

"American's looked into the abyss, and fifty-one percent said: 'Hmmm...I wonder what's down there....'"
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. "rigorous tactical analysis" -- This is KEY!
Seems to me that there are two parts the work ahead of us:

~ crafting a coherent message, and
~ creatively and effectively seeding this message into the mass consciousness.

The Democratic Party has failed miserably on both counts. As you say, it's up to US.

And for whatever reason -- rational or not -- I'm daily feeling more optimistic that we CAN do this work. ESPECIALLY now that we are freed from the constraints of an election campaign. Now begins the campaign for the MINDS of our fellow citizens, instead of just their votes.

sw
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. One Thing About That, Ma'am
It may require adopting lines of attack that are not what some among us would like. That is where a degree of self-discipline comes in. It may be necessary to keep quiet on matters near to the heart, and emphasize matters that are not so dear to us. Nonetheless, if by doing so our strength can be augmented, and the enemy's reduced, till we are in a position to enact our agenda, it seems to me that is the important thing, not whether the most heartfelt noise on all subjects is made.

It seems to me that the best line is, most basically, economic populism. The people of our country do resent elites and elitism bitterly, and consider most of their problems and difficulties to result from the activities of elite elements. The reactionaries have very skillfully blurred the question of just who and what this elite is, to the point where most of the enemy's voting strength think that the elite which oppresses them consists of motion picture actors, "sensitive" female rock artists, and sundry drinkers of gourmet coffees and users of hair gels. We know, of course, that the real elite oppressing them is exploitative directors of major corporations, possessing a wealth of money and power and priviledge it is difficult to appreciate or adequately describe. These directly oppress the people in their daily lives, and do so every minute of their existance. This is what authentic populism in our country was born in rebellion against, and it is necessary to rescucitate the genuine article. The genuine article ought to be able to drive out the rhinestone immitation, and leave the sort of rage to be expected in a woman who discovers her engagement diamond is a cubic zirconia.

"I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Well, "economic populism" IS the issue most dear to me.
That's why I prefer to call myself a "progressive" (homage to "Fightin' Bob" LaFollete), rather than a "liberal". If you'll look at my post #26 in this thread, you'll see one piece of the kind of local economic populist work I've already been involved in.

As for "keeping quiet" on certain issues -- if I may assume that you mean "culture war" types of issues -- I sort of agree (maybe); but what I think REALLY needs to be done is a total re-framing (ala George Lakoff) of how these issues are presented and discussed. Because even if we choose to refrain from bringing them up, the other side WILL -- and we'd better have a tactically impeccable response ready.

Your point about elites and elitism is spot on. And to me, the silence on this issue has been the single most egregious failure of the Democratic party over the last three decades. This is precisely where our alternative progressive coalition has to come out loudest and strongest.

sw



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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. And To Me As Well, Ma'am
Edited on Sat Nov-06-04 01:49 AM by The Magistrate
It is the heart of what the left is all about, in my view.

You are right that my note above indulged in a private code for certain social or culture issues, that seem to me a little beside the point of political battle, regardless of my own sympathies on them. Reframing debate on them is certainly essential, as they are not really going to go away. My own modest suggestion is the sturdy American standard: "It's none of your Goddamn business what I do! Do I come tell you what to do? No! That ain't American, buddy!" It is applicable to a number of things, and from several directions.

The program you are part of seems a splendid one, Ma'am, and most effective. It would seem the sort of thing that could be replicated widely, on a small budget, and have a measureable effect. You might want to put it up here, with a little more detail and advice, for others to emulate. It could make quite a difference.

"Don't mourn, organize!"
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Ah, "the heart of what the left is all about"...
I certainly believe you're correct -- that economic populism is "the heart of what the left is all about" -- yet, I wonder how many others would come up with this same definition when asked what the "left" represents. "Left" is such an imprecise and ill-defined term, blithely tossed around with little examination of what it really means.

Neither here nor there for the purposes of OUR dialogue -- it's just the thought that immediately struck me upon reading your post. </end digression> ;-)

I also like your point about saying "It's none of your Goddamn business what I do!, etc." Certainly an under-utilized yet practical response. I think that we on the left have a tendency to want to exhaustively explain our positions when challenged, taking a defensive tack rather than turning it around on the challenger to defend THEIR stance.

Seems like a very useful tactic to keep in mind.

Finally, thank you for your words of encouragement regarding our little rural ad project. I have been very blessed to find myself engaged with a dedicated group of truly old-style DFL progressive activists up here in the north country. One of our most active members was a fiesty farm woman in her 90's, who sadly passed away over a year ago, who wrote LTTE's every week without fail to the local newpaper -- including her final letter railing against the Iraq invasion which was published the day after her death.

We have all taken continuing inspiration from this remarkable woman. I do intend to start a thread outlining the details of our rural ad project in the context of a larger call to activism at some point.

"Don't mourn, organize!" -- indeed!

sw

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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Just "weaving the story"
isn't going to work. We have to have a mechanism for getting the story out there. The media is junk. The Republicans have the fundmentalist churches...a built in social network.
What do we have to compare? We can weave as many stories as we want but without a local, social network to reinforce the values in those stories they won't stick.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. "without a local, social network to reinforce the values in those stories"
Well, that's precisely the work we have to do: "local social networks"!

I've been working locally in my rural Minnesota county for 2 1/2 years. My "local social network" is our county unit of the Minnesota DFL (Democratic-Farmer-Labor) Party.

Our county went blue for Kerry this year, surrounded by red counties on 3 sides. One of the things we did was to run an ad campaign in each of the small town weekly newspapers in the area beginning in early summer. We raised money to pay for this campaign among all our local DFL party, farmers union, environmental and social justice activists, and published a variety of ads every month leading up to the election. Each time a new ad went out, we also had people from community writing LTTE's to these papers around the same topic/issue that was being promoted in the ad.

The ads were simple -- the ongoing theme was the question: "Thinking of voting Republican?", followed by a simple set of bullet points about the real-life consequences at the local level (key point!) of Republican policies. The ads covered such topics as local schools, property taxes, health care, roads, agriculture, water quality and such.

I'm not a churchgoer, nor have any intention of being one. But churches are NOT the only venues for local networking. We CAN get our message across with a little creativity, and the courage to just put our ideas and ourselves out there and be visible.

sw

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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. It illustrates a "low need for cognition" in some of these freeper types.
Need for cognition is a fairly stable disposition.
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Pobeka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. That says it all. This is the hard nut to be cracked to find success. n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is not disonance
this is ignorance.

It is also probably denial, but not disonance

By the way, what will she do when the college closs because the kids are off to war? (draft) and yuo think the colleges will not be gutted?

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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #6
34. I agree. Dissonance would imply that she had made some
kind of connection between the Bush Administration's policies and her dire situation. It doesn't sound like she has a clue as to how things work, unless of course you have educated her.

If she knew, but had a conflict due to moral misgivings, then it would be cognitive dissonance. I think for so many of these people they just haven't the slightest idea as to how the political system shapes their world. I am sure her Bible Study group doesn't help her understand reality any better either.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Setting Up Bible Study Groups, Sir, That Produce Radicals
Would be child's play. Begin with the Beatitudes and work through the Gospels....

"I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven."
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UNIXcock Donating Member (464 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. The most popular bumper-sticker in the Mexican enclaves of AZ was ...
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 12:31 AM by UNIXnutt
... Viva Bush

... Go figure
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. What a sad pathetic poor woman
And when she's dying in the street, republicans will drive over
her, like they have generations of women like her.

These people are waging a cover war against feminism, calling it
abortion, gay marriage or the minimum wage... it all comes down to
reducing womens economic means, rights to have choices in life and
ultmately to vote and have political voice.

It is a story of patriarchal repression of women, that, and one of
how a culture of abuse has driven this nutty lady to despiration.

Give her a coupla decades and she won't be pregnant, and nobody
will give a fuck.

Ironic still that the military is involved, as usual, liberating
nobody, and repressing the many. They should simply call the whole
machine the Grand Msyogynist/Racist Party.
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stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. Daily events will change this
Eventually, Bush's deeds will catch up with him... they just didn't before the election, is all.

Things can only get so sour before the majority starts asking for his head on a platter.
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. very sad
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 02:39 AM by high density
I'm not sure what it's going to take to wake up these people if they're not awake already.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. and she'll be dropping another moron in 4 months
breed peasants breed

the more the stupider?
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. Seems hard times makes people go over to Jesus. They have nothing else.
It makes sense. They have no where else to find hope so they find it in spiritual ways. We don't approve of the ideals they have but many of us would do the same thing in our own way.

I really feel that what we are seeing in this country is part of the natural order of things. We have to go through this to get were we want to be. We have to heal the divide and we will not turn in their direction but given enough pain and time they will begin to turn to ours.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. Maybe that's part of the Dominionist/Conservative plan.
Create hard times, and you'll create more religious fundamentalists (orthodoxy provides structure, which appeals to people who have no hope).

Create more religious fundamentalists, and you broaden your base. By eliminating job and educational opportunites, they are virtually guaranteed an endless supply of cannon fodder for the Middle East and crusaders for the "Army of God" on the domestic front.
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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. That is it in a nutshell! A perpetual motion machine for the ruling class.
They sit there and turn the wheel that makes them rich.
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lady raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
27. Why do so very many people feed the hand that bites them?
I just don't get it.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. I have run into this piss on me attitude before.
These poor people truthfully believe that they have to try harder and all their bad fortune is really their fault because they haven't tried hard enough. No one tells them that the reason they are marginalized is because of people like the Bushistas keep them this way.

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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. That has to be OUR mission...
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 11:23 PM by scarletwoman
To be the ones who tell these people WHY they are marginalized, and the truth about the forces are who are behind it.

sw
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes, and we have to find a way because whoever got
into their brains before we did, did a good job in closing their minds.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. I believe there is big job ahead for progressive Christians in particular.
I myself am not a Christian, but it seems to me that it ought to be incumbent upon leftist people of faith to actively and visibly proclaim the "good news" of the truly LIBERAL teachings of Jesus as an antidote to the distorted and essentially UNChristian dogma of the religious right.

I, of course, think we'd all be better off if everyone studied Buddhism, but I'm a realist. ;-) If Christianity is where people are at, then I wish that true Christians would step up to the plate and promote a more evolved and progressive Christianity. It would be at least ONE way to "get into their brains."

sw
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yes, and we have to find a way because whoever got
into their brains before we did, did a good job in closing their minds.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. she voted for * then let her fall
I don't care any more. We spend too much time picking up the trash. There are many poor and suffering people in poverty who can be helped and who didn't vote for Bush. We have a huge African-American community that didn't vote for Bush and that will continue to suffer because of CHimpy's policies. I say help them and let the "family values" crowd go to hell in the street.

You can't help the helpless. I will no longer drain my limited time and energy on this earth to help a Republican.

I am low income myself and no fundy would piss on me to put out a fire when I was in need. We need to set priorities. Help our own. To hell with cleaning up GOP trash.

If it sounds harsh, so be it.
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Boudica Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-06-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
41. lay offs
It was "Black Monday" at my place of employment last week. Some layoffs were expected due to product changes. What happened was worse. They laid off a number of the older people who had worked they for over 15 years. My company used the opportunity to get rid of the old and heavy users of health insurance. I live deep in Red State country. How many of those folks voted for Bush the next day?
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