Christians, Jews, Muslims, aren't they all against gay marriage?

[socalover]

Why do we to think we can alienate ourselves from all these faiths and still expect to win? I think we must respect their religious beliefs. I agree with Clinton in dropping the gay marriage issue but strongly support civil unions with all the tax benefits, etc of a marriage.

[molly]

1. Not on a global level

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. NO! Visit the Christianity page of my site, please

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/

[manic expression]

3. Not every faith is anti-gay

and plus, people of those faiths simply need to understand that we should never legislate religion.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Hinduism is accepting of gays. Does anyone know of another religion which accepts (or has no stance) on this?

[molly]

4. P.S. being lesbian or gay is NOT a choice - just like being

straight is NOT a choice. Smart people know this fact.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Alright, this is going to be my last post on the issue

There was NOT ONE single initiative on a ballot put there by a gay person to sanction marriage. If you noticed SOME of the initiatives even precluded civil unions.

If we are going to legislate religious values soon enough we would have a conundrum.

For instance, imagine if 51% of Christians converted to Jehovahs' witness overnight. Would you THEN ACCEPT laws restricting blood transfusions and dismiss it as a cultural issue?

[molly]

6. Great analogy - great point!

[Raster]

7. Marriage, as we know it, should evolve. There should be one primary angle

...the civil angle. This in effect would be a glorified Domestic Partnership, open to same-sex and oppo-sex couples. This would be the legal piece. In addition, each sect or religion could then decide how they wanted to handle the religious portion. If catholics did not want to honor a male-male union, fine. Go diddle the altar boy. However, if the Metropolitan Church wanted to offer a full-line of religious dogma products to their congregation, great. It would be the civil part that would be open to everyone, and we would not call it a marrriage.

[noiretextatique]

8. not all religous people are so insecure about their beliefs

that they have to hate someone else and and blame their character flaws on "faith." not every religious person believes they and they alone have the right to interpret the word of god.
there was a time in this country when so-called christians were against interracial marriage too. well, some still are :eyes:
stop capitulating to bigots, folks...it's a slippery slope.

[KurtNYC]

9. Not sure "marriage" is really the issue

It is not legal/recognized now yet they passed state amendments to ban it (like "double secret probation")!? They use code words because they seek to play on peoples' hatred and fears without admitting to being hateful.

They will always use a boogie man. You could abandon all tolerance issues and they would still come with a boogie man and demonize Democratic candidates.

[shaolinmonkey]

10. This is an incredibly touch issue. I think to be consistent,

marriage should be left up to the religious institutions. I have a Republican friend who is all for civil unions and equal treatment in the eyes of the state. Marriage is only a word. Freedom and equal treatment are the goals.

I remember when I got married the pastor had us sign the marriage certificate at the rehearsal. He said something like, "there, now you're married. tomorrow is the religious ceremony."

There's a philosophy professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, a staunch feminist and lesbian, who is opposed to gay marriage because she feels it is a tainted and oppressive institution.

That's my two cents, I may get flamed, but we need to reasonable, fair and consistent, or at least talk rationally about it.

[Occulus]

11. I'm scared enough now by these types

that I'm seriously considering applying for a CCW license. I knew someday it might come to this.

I knew it when I was seven, ten, twelve, and was getting verbally beat on because I was "different". I remember my own family telling me that I would just have to change or tolerate it and not let it bother me.

I really knew it when my family betrayed me when I was 19, kicking me out of the house, later leaving me standing homeless on the side of the road after helping me pack all my posessions into stoage when I lost my apartment I was living in at the time.

It sank in when my parents decided that wasn't punishment enough, and stopped helping me pay for school. Maybe the idea of having a faggot teaching high school music didn't sit well with them.

Mind you, I've never once been physically attacked. Unlike a lot of gays, my scars don't show.

I'm starting to wonder if this life isn't what Christians call "hell", and that's why evil people seem to get rewarded and good people get punished. The evil ones get to stay here for a long, long time- and the good ones get to "exit early", if you will.

It makes about as much sense as anything else these days.

[still_one]

12. They said the same things about blacks and jews in this country

They still have laws in some southern states which forbid mixing of the races

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!

[RebelYell]

13. Frankly

Discrimination against gays or anyone for that matter is completely UN-Christian.

Without fair elections...nothing else matters. Nothing. I wish people could see that. It wasn't anyone's fault. It was grand theft election.

[noiretextatique]

16. and that's the REAL truth...thanks for saying it.

if only we could convince more people that it's more productive to pursue the election fraud than finding scapegoats.

[booley]

14. Not Liberal or reformed Judaism

Not that i know of. I think even conservative Judaism is rethinking thier stance. That leaves only orthodox.

Plus, I like to think that the majority of jews outside isreal and quite a quantity in isreal know better then to mix religion from politics.

But I also thought that most people were smart enough to recognize bigotry when they saw it and see Bush's gay policies as the gay bashing they were.

I was obviously wrong. Maybe we do suck as a species. If I was God, I certainly wouldn't want to be near us.

[Raster]

15. No one decides they are attracted to members of their same sex. And,

according to Kinsey, if absolute homosexuality is black and straight is white, ALL OF US ARE VARYING SHADES OF GRAY. New insights into human sexuality are being revealed regularly and the one main thing that researcher's have found is that human sexuality is a profoundly complex thing.

And since you're bringing up a historical prospective, the current attitudes by the three desert religions concerning homosexuality are not the perspective that existed a thousand years ago, or even a hundred years ago. Don't assume that same-sex relationships were also vilified. That's just not the case.

[booley]

17. Here's the real problem with that

"I agree with Clinton in dropping the gay marriage issue but strongly support civil unions with all the tax benefits, etc of a marriage."

but a civil union with all the rights and responsibilities of marriage (federal and state) IS a marriage. At least as far as this issue goes.

This isn't about forcing churches to marry us becuase we never wanted to do that, we never needed to do that and we couldn't have done that even if we did. (seperation of church and state)

it was always about the rights of marriage under the law. And gays know it. and the religouse right know it.

A lot of those anti-marriage bans also included banning civil unions. Many of the others that don't list it specificly are often worded to be interpreted to forbid civil unions. And now that they have done so well, expect the reich to use civil unions as thier talking point. that and gay adoption.

[Occulus]

18. How long do you think it will be

before we see laws that prevent gays from renting? Holding jobs?

Laws that shield gaybashers and murderers of gays?

How long?

[booley]

19. the next big thing I fear, will be our kids

If gay marriage upsets them, how do you think they have fared witht he Gayby Boom?

Civil Unions will also be under attack. They already are, in fact. But our kids are next.
The Shrub admin has already passed a bigoted law sayign that gay men can't donate sperm. next will be attacks on gay adoptions, second parent adoptions and foster care and making us ineligable for federal assitence becuase we aren't married to our partners. And then comes the case worker to take away our kids. After all , we can't get married, we'll always have the disadvantages of being single parents even when we have partners and we aren't a Christian Nuclear family. so naturally we aren't fit parents.

Considering I plan on raising kids, I hope I'm wrong.

[LTRS]

22. I have a kid, and you are exactly right

.. that is next on their agenda. Illegal right now for gays and lesbians to adopt (if their own children they have via in vitro) in FL and TX. What a co-incidence that it is those two states, huh?

[LTRS]

21. Actually, in most parts of the country

It's already perfectly legal to deny a person a job, service, or housing because they are gay. Some of the large cities have laws against it, but in most parts of the country it is perfectly legal to discriminate against gays.

[UpsideDownFlag]

20. first of all, beating a really, really dead horse. 2nd: FUH. Lame. Bait.

nt

[Carni]

23. What the hell is up with that tonight?

Seems to be a recurring theme!

[seabeyond]

24. kerry didnt support gay marriage

and said it should stay in the states for the state to decide. he was for civil unions i believe, not real sure

so now what. kerry wasnt for it