If Kerry wasn't prepared to uncover the fraud of e-voting, this was all

[ElementaryPenguin]

A MONUMENTAL WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!!(nearly - we DID get united on the left) We kept hearing about the army of lawyers Kerry had - already filing lawsuits left and right - but I kept wondering why he wasn't addressing the e-voting issue. I posted something here maybe a month ago, asking if we weren't already screwed (and beaten) since we were about to allow one third of the total votes to be cast on electronic voting machines.

Did Kerry/Edwards, and the DNC REALLY NOT F*CKING GET THIS??? So Kerry is not prepared to fight it out now - leaving all the fighting up to Bev Harris - and whoever can still muster up something here on the DU?? It pisses me off to a point where I almost feel like we ought to be entitled to a refunds for our financial contributions. And I've always admired Kerry, and I thought he was an excellent, very presidential candidate - and I thought Edwards was great too! Kerry was a better candidate than Gore - but at least Gore fought as long as he possibly could. Why won't Kerry??

I don't think I'm overstating anything to characterize the e-voting issue as the GREATEST threat democracy in this country has ever faced! And we could've used Kerry's help to point this out to the public - and we still could use it NOW!! Fraud DID take place. An election WAS stolen (yet again) - and the public needs to understand that THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS STEALING ELECTIONS - AND TOTALLY SUBVERTING DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA - WHILE THEY PRETEND TO BE PROMOTING IT GLOBALLY!!!

There can be absolutely no justification for the Congressional bills abolishing paperless e-voting (Rep. Rush Holt's + Sen. Bob Graham's) to be sat on in committee and denied a vote on the floor!! This story needs to go very mainstream - and Kerry - is right now about as in the mainstream as it gets!! HE NEEDS TO POINT THIS OUT RIGHT NOW!! C'MON, JOHN - AND JOHN - TELL AMERICA WHAT SHE NEEDS TO HERE RIGHT NOW!! THAT A SYSTEM IS IN PLACE THAT CAN DENY TRUE FREE ELECTIONS IN THIS COUNTRY FOR DECADES TO COME!

Is it ONLY Bev Harris that gets this?? Are you telling me that the only thing right now that might be saving us from eternal fascism is Bev and her organization? If it is - than who needs the Dem party? Maybe our new party has already been born - BBV! Let's at least get the Republican leaders to squirm in public - as they defend the position that AMERICA DOES NOT NEED AN AUDITABLE PAPER TRAIL - (when we can all get that at an supermarket ATM with a measly $20 withdraw!)- THAT IT'S NOT A BIG DEAL THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN, FIDEL CASTRO, AND OSAMA BIN LADEN CAN ALL HACK INTO OUR NATIONAL ELECTIONS AND CHOOSE OUR LEADERS FOR US!! NO BIG DEAL AT ALL!

[Child_Of_Isis]

1. I believed in the army of lawyers also.

Disillusioned in Ohio.

[lancdem]

3. As did I

They weren't put to much use, were they? If they were pushing Kerry to contest this, they must've known something.

[DinahMoeHum]

9. Same thing here. I'm demanding my money back.

Last month, I answered a plea from them to donate to help field teams of lawyers ready to contest voting discrepancies. I just told them - give my money back, but I doubt I will. Just another strike against the DNC-DLC axis.

:evilfrown:

[Child_Of_Isis]

37. I actually believed that the lawyers

were working as we were working, and as hard as we were working! Dumb ass me _assumed_ that while we were canvassing and phone banking, they were checking machines and voting procedures and contesting any discrepencies.

[ElementaryPenguin]

45. Silly me. I thought the same thing!

I'd love to see how many hours they billed for!

[ElementaryPenguin]

5. Yeah. I'm still waiting for an army of SOMETHING!!!

Sheesh!!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. An Army of silence

Is all I am hearing.

[Pachamama]

13. How do you know that the Army of Lawyers isn't doing something?

I worked on the fundraising of the GELAC funds (General Election Legal Accounting Compliance Fund) for the Kerry campaign...

Don't quit yet...

Do you think that Normandy and D-day was planned by announcing it publicly and holding press conferences? Do you really think they quit...

stay tuned...

:kick:

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. I so hope you are right. n/t

[ElementaryPenguin]

44. I don't. I know Kerry isn't a quitter - and he sure as hell isn't a

Coward! This is all so damn perplexing!

[txindy]

54. Thank you, you said what I was thinking, too.

We have an entire month before the Electoral College meets on December 12th. An awful lot can happen in that time. There is nothing B*sh is doing right now that he wouldn't be doing if Kerry had won the election outright. Nothing has changed. We have a month. We can do this. :toast:

[Straight Shooter]

55. Oh, thank you, a voice of reason

I got in a yelling match with a good friend today, shouting, "The election was on Tuesday, this is Friday, and you're already expecting something earth-shattering to unseat bush!"

I don't want a shotgun-blasting posse yelling "I'm a'comin' to git you" at a target it hasn't even clearly defined yet. I'd rather have a slow and steady sharpshooter team with a deadly aim.

[Pachamama]

65. Yes, and a lot more effective when your not expecting it....

The boy king is so busy now spouting off about his "Mandate" and "agenda" that it shows his true colors and makes a lot of people wonder....this is the type of negative advertising that Kerry couldn't pay enough for...besides, keeps them busy while the D-day plan gets underway....he'd never know what was coming at him until it was there...

:hi:

[crickets]

67. Please be right

The silence is deafening, so if there's a stealth legal action going on, congratulations on the stealth part. I believed Kerry and Edwards when they said they would fight for us and not back down. Now I'm not sure what to think. This isn't just about the results of one election - if someone doesn't do something about voter fraud this time, it may be too late to do anything at all.

I looked forward to registering to vote, did so as soon as I turned eighteen in 1980, and have actively voted since. The first time I walked into a Georgia polling booth and saw the computers, I knew my vote was gone. The touch screens and GEMS tabulators have turned voting into a sham. I desperately want my vote back, along with everyone else's, no matter who they are voting FOR. The point is to be able to vote AT ALL.

[Cobalt Violet]

2. Has the national media taked about fraud yet?

Im not watching any for a while.


Doesn't the Scott Peterson trial still get more media attention then the mere threat to democracy?

[djeseru]

8. Same thoughts here.

I can't understand why aren't there more people screaming about this. Once in 2000 is bad enough, but to just let it happen again - and then do or say nothing?

[bullimiami]

14. we are well ahead of the curve

it has to come up from a groundswell and we are right at ground zero.

keep working it, email, call, get the word out, tell your friends. if anything happens it will take a little while to get going.

[ElementaryPenguin]

18. I know. And I'm so sick of being ahead on that curve. America

(so much of it) is truly a land of dummies!

[crickets]

68. The media really does need to be lined up

and pilloried for keeping people uninformed if not downright misinformed. I stopped watching any and all TV news and punditry long ago, so when I read and hear some of the things people are believing these days...

What? Where did THAT come from? Oh, never mind. :eyes:

It's maddening.

[ElementaryPenguin]

20. Perhaps if Scott Peterson, or Kolbe, or MJ suggest fraud was involved

The networks may examine the election more closely! Fingers crossed!

:puke:

[ArkDem]

31. who is kolbe?

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. Well, Peterson does have to split his airtime with Michal Jackson.

?????

[bbernardini]

4. I'm thinking about sending an invoice to get my donation back.

I agree with you 100%.

[ElementaryPenguin]

7. It may be a good way to get rid of the DNC altogether!

Fuck 'em!

[glitch]

6. Yep - I thought he got it. Lots of other people do get it though

http://verifiedvoting.org/ in addition to BevHarris. And, this is encouraging from http://dailykos.com/story/2004/11/4/224812/643

If Kerry isn't on this, he's missing the biggest opportunity yet to expose the fraWdsters. And that's too bad for him as well as all of us.

[ElementaryPenguin]

11. As bright as he is (and Edwards) - it boggles the mind!!

Bev Harris for President in 08!

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. I get the impression that Edwards wanted to keep fighting.

As a NC Dem, he knows first hand how these people work, and as a lawyer he is used to looking behind surface motivations. The pukes at Diebold are just his kind of bad guys. I hope he doesn't let it go.

[bullimiami]

10. i know. i thought it was all about not letting this happen

but it did happen. bigger and badder and more corrupt and more fraudulent than ever.

i guess im clinging to a small thread of hope here, that kerry, upon finding out the truth, has not abandoned us.
we need a leader, a symbol, someone to rally to and i think kerry is that man.
i hope so.

[ElementaryPenguin]

15. Kerry was more electable - but right now I'd rather have Gore fighting for

Us all!! Sorry to say that - but I mean it! I don't get this early concession. I was hoping there was a method to his madness - but with Bush/Cheney's Ohio campaign manager counting those provisional ballots - the chances are ZERO for Kerry to win. But the e-voting fraud is practically nationwide and it's GLARING!!! Who's gonna fight in public for us? If this is not uncovered now - and they get away with it - WE WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER FAIR ELECTION IN OUR LIFETIMES, FOLKS!! ON THAT YOU CAN DEPEND!!

[Karenina]

23. I get the "concession."

It is NOT legally binding and did a schalter aus on the Mighty Wurlitzer. Had Kerry received the support Barak Obama did, we'd be looking at another scenario. He didn't and we aren't in spite of the stark choice...

[ElementaryPenguin]

17. I thought so too! I hope he's still listening! "Help is on the way"- not

:shrug:

[ethereal]

66. the people . . .

. . . they need a leader . . .

[cybildisobedience]

12. couldn't agree more

We all worked out hearts out here in Pa., and had such an army of volunteers out there, doing their best.
Now, what do you have to hold onto?
I talked and talked about this stuff to anyone in the Pa. offices who would listen, but all they said in response was something lame like, "That's where people like you come in, to get the people out to vote."

Uh, no.
That's where people like YOU come in, to prevent liars and thieves from stealing another one, in BROAD freakin' daylight.

Worst of all, they STILL don't get it!!!!
What is it going to take?

[ElementaryPenguin]

16. We're all called internet conspiracy nuts - tin foil hatters....

We're nuts because WE'RE TELLING THE FUCKING TRUTH!!! 1984 anyone?

[lutherj]

19. They can't do anything unless and until they have an air-tight case.

Otherwise the Democratic party would lose all credibility. Can you imagine the derision the right wing media would heap on Kerry if he went around yelling about a rigged election? That's exactly what they want. They would be able to rig elections for the next 30 years with impunity; anytime anyone complained they would call it the same old lefty conspiracy theory fear-mongering, and laugh all the way to the bank.

[madfloridian]

25. And who is going to give them the airtight case?

Voting activists, or lawyers for the party?

[lutherj]

30. Hopefully both. All I'm saying is they have to be quiet about and

make their case.

[ElementaryPenguin]

33. The Republican Party is stealing every election and the Dems should

Worry about THEIR credibility! Fuck that - and fuck the high road! Lots of good it did us! I'm sure the party that yielded power to the Nazis were very honorable! Great!

[lutherj]

35. I'm not talking about the high road or honor. We have that. I'm just

saying we need to be smart about it, or we'll play right into their hand.

[ElementaryPenguin]

42. I'll agree to that.

Truce.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. Too right. They'd do to national elections as they did to

Dan Rather and the AWOL story. When the 'proof' they planted didn't pan out, it invalidated everyone who mentioned the same thing.

[Ducks In A Row]

21. Listening to Shumer on Daily Show really despressed me

he didn't mention the fraud at all. he just parroted the media about the whole "moral values" crap

Poor Jon Stewart, he looked so despressed. I guess he doesn't read DU, and he should.

[ElementaryPenguin]

32. Shit! And I like Shumer!

Dem party really lets themselves get bullied! We need a TOUGH liberal party!

[Nordic]

22. This is why the Democratic Party is DEAD TO ME

If they were so fucking stupid that they ignored BBV, well they deserve to go down in flames.

Fuck them.

[Blue_Roses]

24. You know, I totally agree with you and just logged on to email

the Kerry campaign about this, but made a diversion here for some links, but now after reading your post, I'm thinking, "THEY CAN'T BE THIS NAIVE'!" I agree with one of the posters here who says that they can't go around shouting fraud. It makes Kerry look desperate. However, I am reminded that he IS a prosecutor and has got to have a heads up to what is going on. Afterall, he did say, "this is the most corrupt bunch"...remember...

This may sound hokie, but at least it gives me hope. Did you see Superman II? If so, remember when he was fighting those 3 from his planet and they obviously had him out-numbered and he flew off. Remember how everyone yelled, "don't leave us Superman and where is he going...we need him now more than ever"? Well, Superman did fight them, but on HIS turf, that is after some serious blows to him. I believe in the power of Christpher Reeve's spirit and I know Kerry wouldn't let him down either:) Truth always finds a way--maybe not (God knows not as fast as I would like) as fast as we would like, but it always does. Have faith 'cause I'm gonna need you to calm me down when I rant next!:7

[petrock2004]

38. AWESOME POST

**i think i love you!!**

NERDS UNITE

maybe i need to make a star trek reference now?

ok ok, it's like at the end of ST:III when captain kirk makes the klingons think that he's surrendering!!

and and then... they board the ship thinkin "heh heh heh"

and then...

BLAMMO!!!!!

hehehehehe

</nerdiness>

[Pachamama]

39. Anyone got a Star Wars analogy?

Since we are Dem nerding out here, I'd love to see more analogies...

But in all seriousness, I BELIEVE in John Kerry...he wasn't just an "Anybody but Bush" candidate for me....and believe me, I was a Howard Dean supporter before and had to adjust to supporting Kerry...it took awhile, but once I got to be familiarized with him, got to follow his career and learn more about him, and even got to actually meet him and work on his campaign, then I can tell you unequivacally that I am a believer in John Kerry and know that he is still fighting for us...He is a good man who loves this country and made a promise to us...he will not break that promise...

[petrock2004]

40. a BIG amen to that

plus, i'm a woman, and i can't be wrong about this.

we're NEVER wrong. :D


:toast:

:hug:

:yourock:

oh and star wars... i got one. you know when luke is hiding in the dark in the death star... just waiting for vader... "sistah... you have a sistah..." THAT part.

WATCH OUT MOFOS!!

wheeeeehehehehe

[Pachamama]

50. Yep follow that womanly intuition....

How's this for a "happy ending" - the legion of Kerry lawyers along with the internal affairs division of the FBI and help from dissenting White House insiders are engaged in an undercover sting operation. They have secretly behind the scenes been investigating the stealing of this election and took the Patriot Act and used it against the very same people who created it...they end up announcing the long list of White House insiders and all those that helped them to steal the election and falsify the results...indictments follow and impeachment (or resignation) of the boy king follows with John Kerry being inaugurated as our next President....like an Eliot Ness, he comes charging in and gets the bad guys....

sigh...its a good dream....:hi:

[crickets]

69. Oh, Pachamama

I do like that dream.

[Chili]

59. LOL!

...dear nerd, live long and prosper!

[ElementaryPenguin]

41. Okay. Your post has inspired me to have a little more faith...

And be a little more patient...FOR A WHILE!

[Child_Of_Isis]

53. but, if this happened to the freepers,

with reports of fraud rolling in every day, yes, they would be screaming their head off and fighting like hell, publicly even. THEY wouldn't give a damn how crazy they looked! That's why they are where they are.

[txindy]

56. I remember that scene from 'Superman'

and you're exactly right. The parallels are strong. I believe in John Kerry and I'm not giving up hope. I had my 'crazy b*tshit' day on the 3rd :nuke:, but I'm over that now and I'm looking ahead once again.

Bev Harris mentioned in her thread about BBV investigating that she was going to be posting documents on her website, but that the info. wouldn't be elaborate right now due to the need to protect avenues of information before they close. I get the strongest feeling that there is a lot of that going around. ;)

[Dem2theMax]

60. I'm with you devrc. I was mad at first as well. BOY was I mad.

But then I received my email from the Kerry camp. I'm sure everyone got one of those. I wrote to them twice. Once to say 'don't give up' and the second to chew them out for doing so. After that I got two more emails. The emails were very simple, 'thank you, and that's it folks,' And when I read them it hit me. This is so unlike Kerry/Edwards. This is NOT them. THEY don't give up. The emails were too simple. Too little said. I truly feel they ARE doing something about this and they have to be quiet about it to get it done, no matter which way it turns out in the end. They wouldn't get anywhere fighting the backlash they'd get if they had come right out and said they were going to contest the election. This way they can accomplish a lot more.

I cannot believe, for one minute, that John Kerry walked away.
No. He's up to something. I can be patient. I've put up with * for four LONG years. I can stand a few more weeks if it means he goes bye-bye in the long run.

[shelley806]

63. I absolutely loved your post too!! I've been up and down more in the

past several days than any recent memory of mine...Surprising how much I was looking forward to a whole new attitude in the country from this pair--to fight the evil ones!! LOL!! I just really hope that Kerry is staying behind the scenes so as not to draw attention tho the fraud until things can be proven in a convincing manner.

Thanks again for your hope...

[CityZen-X]

36. Skull & Bones Brotherhood!

Phuck Kerry and his whimp servitude!

[UNIXcock]

43. I feel betrayed ...

... A MONUMENTAL WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY!!! :mad:

... However, I am the Pollyanna, 2008 is ours folks!

[ElementaryPenguin]

47. Not if the fraud of 2004 is never exposed!

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

[ibegurpard]

46. Maybe, just maybe, the Democrats are smart enough

to realize that THEY would never be taken seriously on this issue:

See here as to who's demanding a 34-state recount:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2609400&mesg_id=2609400

[WillyT]

48. And Guess Who IS Stepping Up To The Plate ???

Fucking Ralph Nader of all people. In New Hampshire.

Don't have all the details (will try to find) but Randi Rhodes is having everybody fax support\demands to 'ole Ralphie-Boy!!!

OK Ralph... if you can pull off something major, I'll take back................ 1/2 the things I've ever said about you, LOL!!!

:shrug:

Hey EP!!!

:hi:

[ElementaryPenguin]

49. Amazing. Perhaps Ralphie has somehow tapped into his true activist

Roots! I'll forgive him if he gets something going.

[WillyT]

51. Here's The Link:

Link: http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/main.html

Help Ralph run out of fax paper.
202-265-0092
Ralph challenge the election results in New Hampshire Now!

SEND $5 BUCKS NOW
BLACK BOX VOTING

PO BOX 25552
SEATTLE WASHINGTON 98165-1052

They want people to fax Ralph, and to send $5.00 to BBV (TO THE P.O. BOX)!

Apparently Bev Harris is asking for the biggest Freedom of Information Act request in history. Over 3,000 counties (I think)!

Let's all help out. As of right now... it's all we got!

Randi's says she's gonna keep on top of it every day!

:kick:

[Hubert Flottz]

52. You are right Willy T.

I think John Kerry is ready to step forward, when the time is right! Nothing worth having comes easy! Did you folks think Bush would just hand over the keys? I was pissed when Kerry first made his speech Wednesday, but now I think I was the one who jumped the gun! Be ready for a fight! It's coming! There is a huge amount of evidence to sift through, but I believe the evidence is there to overturn this thing this time!

I've told you DUers since 2001, that this thing could turn bloody, IF, Bush got caught trying to steal another election in 2004! We are sitting on a powder keg! It's better to be cool like John Kerry is doing right now, than to start a civil war! I believe Kerry is a smart LEADER! I believe John Kerry is also a good diplomat! A cool head is what Kerry needs to keep now, and he has made ALL the right moves right down the line, under the storm of attacks from the GOPers!

John Kerry is playing out the rope, so Bush can hang himself to the max, IMHO! Just like he has been, during the entire campaign!

[txindy]

57. Plus, we avoid the wild media circus the wingnuts would put on

If word got out about what was taking place behind the scenes, if it went public like Florida 2000, can you imagine what the nazis on Faux News would do? Plus, Mike Savage? They'd have B*sh's entire base thinking there was a huge plan to take over the country by framing Junior for fraud. No, the subtle approach is best. Line up those ducks. Then....

I was like you after the concession speech, Hubert. I was beyond ticked. I ranted at Kerry, raved at B*sh, and tore the stickers off my car -- anything to feel better. Well, I felt worse. Then I started using my head for something other than pounding it on the wall. The next day the stickers were back on my car and I'm looking ahead. If what we think is happening really is taking place -- and if John Kerry can pull it off -- the entire world will be in complete awe. The added benefit is, we'll be seeing the end of the NeoCons. :toast:

[GregD]

58. Kerry's attorneys apparently didn't get it

One of my friends who worked on the BBV issue for the past 18 months had a chance to talk to one of Kerry's 10,000 lawyers. Supposedly, this guy was one of the lead attorneys.

She was shocked when she discovered that he was not well informed on the issue.

How the hell was this allowed to happen?

Last Dec/Jan, all we heard from Congress was that after the Iraq war, the paperless electronic voting issue was the next highest priority to most members of Congress. Are they all so out of touch, was Kerry/Edwards so out of touch, that they did not make certain that the leadership of this "mass mobilization of attorneys" who were to protect the fundamental roots of democracy was up to speed on this issue?

CLUELESS!

So here we are...

Now remind me, what is it we need Congress for? When did they stop remembering that this is OUR COUNTRY, and that THEY FUCKING WORK FOR US. CONGRESS HAS LEFT US ADRIFT AND ARE A WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARY OF THE CORPORATIONS - THEY DON'T GIVE ONE SHIT ABOUT US!

[Chili]

61. first of all...

...how sweet would this be if this were actually pulled off by THE PEOPLE? Very sweet...! We don't need John Kerry to expose fraud if we have someone - anyone! - with enough visibility to give it attention. There are enough journalists out there who WILL pursue this if they think... hmmm... Pulitzer? You can bet there are still journalists motivated by exposing something this big! Remember that the Swiftboat liars would not have been debunked without the NYT, the WP, the LATimes, the Tribune, the Globe... and all the smaller papers all over the country printing stories of veterans confirming John Kerry's story. We might not have a liberal media, but we can count on there being a journalist somewhere who will follow up on the story. Heck, Greg Palast did... other journalists swarmed to Florida, counted the ballots, reported what they found. They're out there.

But someone asked for an analogy. I have one. I was never impressed with Richard Gephardt, I thought he was a boring blowhard. But then, I read Jeffrey Toobin's book "A Vast Conspiracy" and read how Gephardt, pissed as hell at Bill Clinton for indulging himself with Monica, hunkered down with the Democrats on the House committee on impeachment, and they hammered out the "we are the victims!" strategy that, had we been privy to it, we would've screamed to the mountaintops WTF ARE YOU DOING? But it worked... it worked. Gephardt and the Dems were counting on the relentless hubris of the House Managers, and turned public opinion so completely that the Republicans suffered losses in the 1998 mid-terms and didn't dare find Clinton guilty in the Senate. Trent Lott and all the rest had to back down because Bill Clinton was floating on a 70% approval rating - fuck Bush and his bogus "the people at my back" bullshit - 70% approval! - now THAT'S a mandate!

So don't despair yet... sometimes the most passive ass-backwards strategy, especially in the face of an recklessly arrogant bully opponent, WORKS.

Otherwise... we'll do the fucking thing ourselves!

[Eric J in MN]

62. Neither John Kerry nor John Edwards co-sponsored the Rush Holt

bill, introduced in the Senate by Bob Graham.

Edwards co-sponsored an awful alternative from Hillary Clinton.

[ever_green]

64. Yeah, I'm sick of feeling helpless.

I want to fight, but we need a leader.

[deacon]

70. He would have looked like a fool to hold up with no proof

and concessions aren't leagally binding.

[loudsue]

71. Kerry and Edwards are NOT Superman or Luke Skywalker...

And they're NOT "behind the scenes" trying to un-do THIS election! Their armies of lawyers are NOT on the ground. None of the black boxes have been impounded ANYWHERE! And to "prove the fraud" before Rove gets hold of the machines, they would have to have moved swiftly and decisively to impound the records before the cards could be switched.

How can you guys fall for this "behind the scenes" crap? Duh???? This is a VERY public, VERY WELL KNOWN message board. To think, for even one split second, that rimjob (FreeRepublic) didn't copy and paste the very first "Kerry is working stealthily behind the scenes, so as not to get noticed"post and forward it immediately to Rove, is to be living in some sort of an alternate universe. Rove knows all about these little "secret" plans we keep speculating about.

If the machines weren't impounded, and the cards locked down, you can bet on it that the Diebold bunch has already cleaned up the programming that threw the election to bush. After all, who else has ACCESS to the innerds of those machines, except the Diebold or ES&S folks, without a court order? Answer: NOBODY!

All we can do is hope Ralph Nader can contest enough of the states to draw attention to the corruptibility of the machines, and we might get a few more votes in the Kerry column with what votes we're turning up. I do believe Bev, and organizations she is affiliated with, will be able to prove fraud, along with Nader. But is it going to be enough to reverse the election?

When the media won't run with it, or will spin it in bush's sympathy, and when the judges sitting on the benches, or the republican Atty. Generals won't take the cases, what leg are we going to be standing on?

This is NOT A DONE DEAL, and we're NOT SECURE at this point. We're most certainly NOT SECRET!! Their team is scrubbing faster than we're uncovering, you can count on that. They haven't turned the greatest Democracy on the planet into a fascist totalitarian state by NOT having their "players" in the right spot at the right time. And THEY are the ones with the power....power unchecked by ANY branch of government.

I'd love to feel all warm & fuzzy and think that superman or luke skywalker are going to save us from this. Bev Harris and Ralph Nader are formidable foes for the republicans, but look at the machine they're up against!

We need to WORK HARD on this, and get as many of the dots connected as we possibly can! Don't sit back hoping John Kerry and John Edwards are "on it". I'm sure they're not ignoring the vote certification processes going on, but I promise you, their hands are about as tied as ours are against this mob.

:kick::kick::kick:

[saracat]

72. I agree! But it is interesting that the K/E site now has the

legal fund recount request site up! Hmmmm.......

[DeepModem Mom]

73. kick

[DoYouEverWonder]

74. Patience grasshoppers

I know this is hard but I think the Kerry team is holding their fire on purpose.

If they attack too early it would have shut down the counting of the ballots and we wouldn't know shit.

By stepping back and letting the count proceed, we are finding that irregularities are popping up all over the place.

By law, Ohio has to wait 11 days before they post the counts from their provisional ballots. If we can get through the 11 days without any court actions the better off we are.

Once that deadline is past, then I hope and believe that all hell is going to break loose.

So hanging in there, and in the meantime lets keep digging for the evidence of fraud that the bad guys have left all over the place.

[SmokingJacket]

75. It's incredibly hard to believe they paid NO attention to this issue.

Was it Mark Crispin Miller who talked about discussing it with Kerry? And Kerry going totally blank, like, I'm not going there with you, Mr. Tinfoil.

It's just common sense to have an auditable, verifiable election! Fact is, if the election is hackable, if the ballot-box is stuffable, if the machines CAN count backwards... it'll happen!!

Doesn't take a cynic or wild-eyed CTer to understand that.

[robbedvoter]

76. Famous last words:

Famous last words:
"I have no time for those crying in your teacups for stolen elections"
John Kerry, campaign trail 2003

Mark Crispin Miller:

I actually got invited to a Kerry fundraiser so I could talk to him
about it.(Diebold) I raised the issue directly with him and with Teresa. Teresa
was really indignant and really concerned, but Kerry just looked down
at me -- he's about 9 feet tall -- and I could tell it just didn't
register. It set off all his conspiracy-theory alarms and he just
wasn't listening.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/04/election_reactions/
index1.html

Palast: lawyers could not look inside the machines - this was idiotic
As for Nader, attacking the one state Kerry flipped from 2000, and which has PAPER BALLOTS is idiotic.