URGENT!!! We can get a recount, but we have to act RIGHT NOW!!

[hedda_foil]

Ralph Nader has agreed to contest in New Hampshire but there's only an hour left for him to do it. NH was finally called for Kerry, but the results differ hugely from the exit polls. Nader has agreed to file for a recount but must have a good number of individual requests faxed to him within the next hour in order to make the deadline. Please write to him and demand that he request an official recount of the New Hampshire vote tally. He's the only one that can and will do this so please, just hold your nose and do it.

The fax number is 202-265-0092. If you have a group of activists, involved, use the group name as well as your own in the request.

Thanks,
hedda

[demnan]

1. Kerry has already conceded

He didn't want this.

[Stephanie]

5. I want to know what the vote count is

It's my vote, not Kerry's.

[tsuki]

73. You are right. It is your vote. Do it.

[wicket]

8. concession is not legally binding

n/t

[Straight Shooter]

27. One more time: not legally binding, and this is how the big boys play

Kerry is a professional. So is Edwards. All Kerry did was take the spotlight off himself.

Too much law to cover it here. Review what really happened in 2000 when bush sued Gore. Don't be angry with Kerry. Think of chess.

[ClassWarrior]

84. Also, an action based on fraud is not binding.

If Kerry conceded based on Chimpy's fraud, it's not binding anyway.

NGU.

[Sara Beverley]

28. Will Nader ask for recount for NV and NM ?

There was some real hope that Kerry might pick up these states.

[WillyT]

103. Well Kerry Will Have To Live With It, Dammit !!!

It's OUR votes they fucked with, our democracy, and our contry. These fucks work for US!!!

And if we can at least hobble this bush bastard, and send him back to the illegitimacy whence he came, the better our chances for 2006, and beyond!!!

Who knows... maybe he'll hve to resign in shame. Sheesh... what am I SAYING, LOL!!!

:kick:

[crispini]

2. Christ, that really IS Nader's fax number.

I googled it.

OK, I'll go do it.

[Maddy McCall]

14. I'll refrain from faxing him what I truly think about him.

:-)

[Ducks In A Row]

fuck nader, let him drop into a hole and we can cover it over

[Stephanie]

3. Can you post some boilerplate?

Is there anything specific we need to include? Any residency requirement or anything?

[hedda_foil]

19. As far as I know, there's no residency requirement.

Just ask him to request a recount of the ballots cast in the New Hampshire presidential race on November 2, 2004. A couple of lines will do. Just do it fast.

I did ask about residency, and we're working on New Hampshirites, but it's needed now, so let's do it now.

[Stephanie]

37. Sample letter > > >

Re: Recount in New Hampshire

Dear Mr. Nader:

I suspect irregularities in the vote count in New Hampshire. Please request an official recount of the vote tallies in the New Hampshire presidential race on November 2, 2004.

Sincerely,
Stephanie

[Ignoramus]

82. But..

my name's not Stephanie...

[Stephanie]

85. You can sign yours

Ignoramus

[Lefta Dissenter]

4. Since recounts can be expensive

should we put our $$ into recounting the states that didn't go for Kerry. Ideally, I'd like to see the whole damned country get recounted, but there's that reality of limited resources.

[Maddy McCall]

6. Why would you want a recount if Kerry won the state.

Seems like Bush would be the one desiring a recount, since he lost the state.

Really, I am confused...please explain. :-)

[AP]

7. I have the same question.

[sangh0]

9. I don't understand that either.

I've got a fax machine right next to me, and I'm ready to go, but I don't understand why we should contest a state that Kerry won.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

17. popular vote !!

If the popular vote is a fraud then the rest is too.

Bushco may have tried to skim votes from safe Kerry states and pad votes in safe Bush states!!!

[sangh0]

23. Good enough for me

sending fax

[SomthingsGotaGive]

32. Thank you

I think Gore lost a lot of PR points only wanting his votes counted.

If there is fraud find it where ever it is.

[StClone]

10. If we can proove fraud in one state

it'll help our cause.

[Hutzpa]

31. Why State that Kerry won, why not a * State

explain this to me, because i'm confused.

[crispini]

12. Ok, yeah. Now I feel stupid.

OP, what's your take on this?

[Mz Pip]

11. Kerry won the State

Why Recount NH??? That makes no sense, unless Ralphie wants to tilt the balance to his buddy Bush.

Recount Florida, recount Ohio. NH is meaningless.

MzPip
:dem:

[OneMoreDemocrat]

15. It would get the 're-count' idea into the mainstream...........

I say, get it out there.

Attack from every angle.

[Hutzpa]

36. Still does not add up to me n/t

[OneMoreDemocrat]

95. It might if they count the votes correctly............

2+2 is 4, not 3,482 like they would like us to believe.

[MidwestMomma]

20. Possibly because it's one of the states where the exit polls don't match

the results. I'm guessing Kerry should have won by a bigger margin based on the polls. Remember Bush is basing his mandate on winning the popular vote.

I don't have a fax machine but if anyone does, what would it hurt. Fraud is fraud, don't we want to expose it?

Just my thoughts.

[theboss]

13. Why the hell are we re-counting NH?

Has anyone actually thought this through?

[Stephanie]

18. I think we are recounting anywhere there is suspicion of fraud

Which means anywhere we can. This thread is urgent because the deadline is now. At least I think that's what's happening.

[theboss]

29. What the hell does fraud have to with a recount then.

See my other post. A stuffed ballot box is going to give the same count each time. A recount is pointless.

You need to find the fraud. You can count the votes forever and it won't matter.

Don't waste energy.

[hedda_foil]

34. We asked Ralph to do this, despite the way we feel about it because he can

New Hampshire has a cheap and excellent recount process. If we can prove it happened in NH, it certainly won't give the vote to Nader, but we'll have some major proof that the vote can be and has been rigged. Remember, there were highly irregular results from the computerized voting districts in the NH primary as well. In this case, the difference between the exit polls and the final results in NH were in the double digits, and they held the state back until the very end. On top of that, one of Bush's strategies has been to increase his popular vote count as much as possible even in states he technically loses. They held several states in reserve just in case there were problems with their rigs elsewhere. NOW is the time to strike and THIS is where we can do it! We need the proof wherever we can get it, guys so stop arguing and send the damn fax. It can't hurt you and it may do a world of good.

[Hutzpa]

43. Whats the deadline for Florida and Ohio? n/t

[mzmolly]

49. And if we can't "prove it" we've lost the greater battle. No thanks

ask him to recount Ohio first.

[Stephanie]

55. It's not a matter of first - it's that the NH deadline is right now

Everything that can be recounted should be recounted. Certainly Ohio. One doesn't exclude the other.

[mzmolly]

75. And if after the recount NH remains the same or perhaps * wins?

No thanks. I'll save our recounts for the states that can win it, Ohio and Florida.

[Stephanie]

81. A technical win is not good enough

REDS will never accept it. We have to show the popular vote went Kerry too.

[theboss]

88. You are going to find 4 million votes in the next week?

God Bless You.

[Stephanie]

91. If the split was 3.5 it would take less than 2 million

.

[mountainvue]

104. I'm trying but it's busy.

Is there another fax #?

[MidwestMomma]

57. I think you are right. Another thread today said Nader was being asked

to ask for recounts in other states he was on the ballot in. Like you, I'm guessing they are starting with NH because of the deadline.

What can it hurt? If Kerry won NH, he won it and that's what a recount should show. But it could also show Kerry won NH by a even bigger margin and that election fraud occurred.

But maybe I'm just crazy and this really is just some wild Nader plot to further destroy Kerry like everyone else has decided.

[kimchi]

21. Because the exit poll vs. reality is incredibly skewed.

It is probably the easiest state to prove fraud in; which could make the media re-open Florida.

Any little bit helps, IMO.

[theboss]

33. And it's going to be skewed again

If they stuffed the ballot boxes, the numbers are going to be the same. (And what idiot stuffs a ballot box and loses?)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. i want a recount in both FL and Ohio! Kerry got NH..hey ralph if you......

want to get yourself right with Liberal and Progressives again then demand a recount in FL and Ohio?

www.blackboxvoting.org

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Ditto, Ralph. n/t

[MallRat]

25. Fix that link, Elsewhere. It's www.blackboxvoting.org. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

39. malrat thanks ..phew caught it in time ...fixed

[theboss]

26. Nobody is thinking this through

If the ballot boxes were stuffed or rigged or whatever, a recount doesn't help. A stuffed ballot box is going to have the same count each time (and a smart cheater is not going to have a dispirate number of ballots and voter numbers).

You need to prove "fraud," my friends. You need evidence of tampering, a sworn affidavit, etc.

[mountainvue]

105. And I have to question why you would

want people NOT to do this? If you don't want to do it fine.

[theboss]

106. Because I don't know what the goal is....

I'm an attorney. When someone says, there is fraud, I think of the elements of fraud. Then I look for evidence to support each element. Then I determine if fraud actually exists.

I don't know what the elemtnts are here and I don't know what we are looking for exactly. All I see is us recounting votes in a state we won.

If the numbers change, what fact is established?

[crispini]

110. It gives us a starting point.

If the numbers change, WHY did the numbers change?

I don't know squat about NH election law either, but I wouldn't be surprised if a recount was done in a different manner than the original count. You should be able to look at the data (the votes) in two different ways and get the same result. If you look at the data two different ways and get a different result, then there is a problem in the process, in the way you look at the data.

I'm a programmer. I see it as a starting point in the process of troubleshooting.

[crispini]

109. BUSHWAH!

It TOTALLY depends on HOW THE ORIGINAL VOTE WAS TAKEN and HOW THE RECOUNT IS DONE.

In Florida, some of the counties in question are optical scan counties. That means that there is a paper BALLOT trail.

If these ballots are recounted on a different optical scanner and they get a different count.... Well then... that would be interesting, wouldn't it.

[mzmolly]

45. Damn right!

:grr:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hutzpa]

51. Yup!!! I agree totally, a recount in FL and OH EOM

[Zinfandel]

24. Donate to Bev Harris' blackboxvoting.org

NOTE:
We are ".ORG."
BlackBoxVoting".COM"
is a deceptively
designed site,
not affiliated
with Bev Harris,
nor with
Black Box Voting Inc.

DONATE ONLY AT Bev Harris' -- blackboxvoting.org!!! --- ".ORG."

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VelmaD]

38. You couldn't be more wrong

I have heard from someone at bbv.org PERSONALLY. This is legit. I hope everyone will trust a long-term poster over someone with 20.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

41. actually the premise of the post makes sense

We can't get Kerry to petition we need a candidate who was on the ballot. If Bush fraud is evident he sure won't do it. I doubt he is a troll. Just someone trying to find out the truth.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

42. LMAO!

Someone with 20 posts is lecturing us on who is or who is not a troll? That's just classic.

[bicentennial_baby]

44. Uh

Yeah...not. :eyes: Get a clue.

[Stephanie]

46. Yes, I think you might be

But I'll reserve judgment for the moment.

[sangh0]

47. True

but we're willing to give you a second chance

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. are you crazy newbie to call a long time DUer a "troll"..you need to

just lurk awhile and get yourself educated sweetie ...now please apoligize to hedda foil :spank:

[jeningermany]

60. Sorry

my apologies, I obviously spoke too soon. I'll come back when I have 5000 posts and my opinion matters.

[Stephanie]

65. Don't bother

thanks

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. Wrong. hedda_foil is a longtime member.

Been here forever. :hi:

[hedda_foil]

56. Do you have any idea how long I've been a DUer, Jen?

Do you know that I'm Executive Director of the National Ballot Integrity Project, and spoke with Bev Harris at the DC press event last month?

I'm on the level. Who are you?

[jeningermany]

66. sorry hedda

read my previous reply. All apologies. I've been sufficiently shamed now. I'm just someone with an opinion (albeit incorrect) but I know better now.

[VelmaD]

70. Having an opinion is one thing...

calling another DU a troll is something else. Not to mention it is against the board rules.

[MidwestMomma]

68. Gosh, seems the idea of a recount in NH is making some folks nervous

Things that make you go hmmmmm....

[bitchkitty]

98. Hedda foil is not a troll. n/t

[madfloridian]

100. How dare you!

She is one of the best DUers ever.

[geek tragedy]

35. We should help Nader overturn one of Kerry's victories?

Put down the crack pipe.

[VelmaD]

40. Read the damn thread...

it isn't about overturning a Kerry victory. It's about proving there was voter fraud in NH. The exit polls and vote totals are WAY out of whack. If we can PROVE fraud here we can get a foot in the door on this issue and force recounts in other states.

[bklyncowgirl]

48. Do you have to be a NH resident n/t

[VelmaD]

53. Don't think so

:)

[libra]

52. Why is it that every time someone suggests

an idea for us to do something, anything, to get an accurate vote count, someone posts a negative response? Who are you? Republicans? Obstructors? Karl Rove paid operatives? If you are not for democracy, get the hell off this site. I don't post much, but I am sick and tired of seeing this kind of obstruction. I am willing to listen to any way AT ALL that we can have our votes count. STFU if you can't be a part of the solution!!!

[theboss]

69. Because so many of these ideas are so dumb

If there was fraud, a recount means nothing. We already know that the exit polls don't match the results. Therefore, there is either a problem in the exit polls are in the voting process. All recounting the votes does is prove that the exit polls don't match the results....WHICH WE ALREADY FUCKING KNOW!!!!

If I were out to prove fraud, I would find a reasonable sized district (maybe 500 people) and get an affidavit from every person who voted there and see if the numbers make sense. That is how you prove fraud.

If you have proof that 500 people, you ask all 500 who they voted for. The Bush supporters won't tell you and that is fine. But if you get 225 Kerry supporters to swear they do (and you can prove they actually voted) and Kerry only had 150 votes, you have fraud.

[Hutzpa]

74. Its too early for that tone of voice,

I'll turn it down if I where you.

[tjdee]

58. So he wants to be begged to seek a recount?

This is my problem with Ralph Nader. He knows the RIGHT THING TO DO, but he plays these stupid ass games.

I don't know if I'm reading this thread in time, and I have to think about whether I'm in. Thank you heddafoil, for posting this and giving all of us a choice and an option.

Ralph Nader is King Punk Ass.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

67. I don't like the man either

But I think we asked him to do this for us. He said he would IF we could get enough people behind it.

[crispini]

59. Ok. I am still not entirely sure this is true.

but what's it going to cost me? A fax to Ralph, ten minutes of my time, and looking like an idiot if it's not true. I can live with that. I have looked like an idiot a thousand times before.

Done.

[VelmaD]

64. This is on the level

I think you're friends with fudge stripe cookie and she'll vouch for me. I can vouch for the source this is coming from...I heard it straight from one of my best friends who works for blackboxvoting.org.

[crispini]

72. Yep. OK, I'll take your word for it.

Because I seem to recall fudge stripe mentioning your name.

Cool.

The fax machine, BTW, is still trying to send that fax. The number's busy.

[tsuki]

76. Me, too.

[Stephanie]

62. Done. n/t

[Lorien]

63. kick

[MidwestMomma]

71. Please keep us posted on your progress and let us know

if he meets the deadline. Thanks everyone that faxed.

[lakeguy]

77. done

[m berst]

78. everyone's vote counts...

...or no one's does. It doesn't matter if we "know" the outcome, it doesn't matter if it helps us or hurts us, it doesn't matter that it has been "called" or predicted, it doesn't matter if it seems hopeless or if it seems unrealistic. Every vote counts, always and everywhere, or there is no democracy.

The vote belongs to the people, not to the candidate and not to the party and not to the media.

[Zhade]

102. THANK YOU. Someone gets it.

Well, a lot of people get it. But you said it again, and that deserves appreciation.

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. The line is busy. Can't fax.

I guess that's a good sign. We'll see.

[JPace]

93. The line is constantly busy...cannot get through.

[librechik]

108. I got an "out of service" message the second time I tried to fax. n/t

[OneMoreDemocrat]

80. I did it................

and it only took 10 seconds.

Not too much to ask of us if this action has ANY possibility of helping to get the ball rolling to snatch Democracy from those who seek to destroy it.

Every avenue MUST be pursued, we MUST attack from every angle.

I can't for the life of me understand those who would rather sit around and argue the politics of this action rather than just FUCKING DOING SOMETHING TO SAVE OUR FUCKING COUNTRY.

[tsuki]

83. Done.

[ClassWarrior]

86. I DON'T HAVE A FAX MACHINE - HOW CAN I HELP??

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

89. Hello?? Hedda??

NGU.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

90. Go to eFax.com and sign up for one free month...........

You'll have to provide a credit card, but you can cancel before 30 days and not pay anything.

Or just go to the library or a local Kinko's......there has to be a Fax machine within a mile of you somewhere.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

87. Kick.............

For America!!!!!

[ibegurpard]

92. Someone like Nader is the only one who can do this

The Democrats can't...no one would take them seriously because it would look like sour grapes. Nader has nothing to gain by this because no matter how it turns out he won't have won.

[OneMoreDemocrat]

94. If Ralph does it and if it really starts something............

it would be the most ironic thing that could possibly happen;

Ralph Nader, responsible for putting John Kerry in the White House where he rightfully belongs, thereby saving Democracy in America.

[nostalgicaboutmyfutr]

97. and using Puke $$ to do it!!

[ClassWarrior]

101. That'd be sweet.

:evilgrin:

NGU.

[mountainvue]

107. Wouldn't it though? n/t

[crispini]

111. If this happens,

I will take back every bad thing I ever said about Ralph, send him or his organization money, and apologize to all of my Naderite friends.

[UNIXcock]

112. No shit.; It's like we hated his ass last week, and now he's our SAVIOUR

... :wtf:

[zanblack]

96. Hope it's not too late

Fax is busy, but am in redial mode.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. FUCK OFF, RALPH.

Dick.