Clinton's advice so far: Change our image/Abandon gays

[Sandpiper]

Anyone else you'd like to throw overboard Bill?

[Union Thug]

1. Clinton telling us to "stop our whining"

Really rubbed me the wrong way. Easy for a rich guy to say, aint it?

[lancdem]

13. Clinton did not accuse anyone of whining

Saying Dems shouldn't whine is not the same as accusing people of doing it. As for the gay comment, we're all going to just take the Advocate's and Newsweek's word for it without knowing what was actually said in the entire conversation?

Geez, this place is beginning to get on my nerves.

[Union Thug]

24. Um, I'm a registered Democrat.

He told me to 'stop my whining.'

[sangh0]

28. No, a newspaper said that

and you were foolish enough to believe it

[Union Thug]

43. So, I guess I should give bill a call and ask him if he really said it.

Are you saying he never said it? If so, I would LOVE IT if you were correct, but until Bill says otherwise, I will continue to feel offended by this comment.

[sangh0]

45. No, I guess you should not believe everything you read

I learned that before I even learned to read.

but until Bill says otherwise

Hahahaha!

Until you deny being a freeper, I'll believe you are because "someone" said you're a freeper

[MsUnderstood]

35. If he really said that . . .

then it is really ironic.

Kerry told that to Gore in 2000 when gore fought.

Then Kerry said he would fight til the last vote was counted.

Then Day After, Kerry steps back and Clinton is the one saying "stop your whining"

*sigh*

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Just don't abandon hummers from interns

[Trajan]

3. First time I have ever said this:

Fuck You William Jefferson Clinton ....

[DELUSIONAL]

12. I second that sentiment -- Fuck big Dawg

I will NOT dump some of my dearest friends in the whole world. These guys are always there for me -- and they have a stronger marriage than most of the "straight" couples I know.

[Owlet]

4. Hillary?

That kind of babble isn't going to do her 08 candidacy any good. Maybe that's what he had in mind. What's the source for this, anyway?

[sangh0]

10. There's no source for this. It's RNC propoganda

I hope you don't think it's Dems who are saying this. We all know who's obsessed with Clinton and his penis

[skylarmae]

5. ya know, if he would have kept it zipped, we wouldn't be in this mess

and I find it offensive that he offers us bullshit. Bigotry is not the answer to our problems.

[Rose Siding]

63. You know what else.

You can bet that the bushies and the roves and the rest of the cabal already have a plan(s) in place for Bush's successor. Clinton, orator/brain/politico/soul for the ages that he may be, left us high and dry.

I can admire his attributes and successes and still see that his failures screwed us.

[Liberal Veteran]

6. Should we ditch the adulterers also, Mr. Clinton?

Just wondering.

[seraph]

7. Well, I'm sorry to say it

But we need to abandon Bill.

Time to look to the future.

[Cat Atomic]

8. Well, what do you expect? The DLC has always been about

moving the center to the right.

[sangh0]

11. I expect

people would not believe everything they read on the Internet or the news.

[lancdem]

17. I'm sick of it, too

[knowbody0]

9. bullshit

he said he said he said
when bill says this i will believe he said it

[EndElectoral]

14. Clinton is wrong! When you sell your soul to appease idiots..forget it

[Catch22Dem]

15. Link?

[xchrom]

16. please -- ''whinning''? -- from that

motherfucker -- i like bill -- but sometimes he is such a fuckin idiot.
yeah throw away more votes -- that'll win elections.

[dogtag]

18. Before we lynch poor old Bill...

is it possible that his advice to JK is being taken a bit out of context?

[lancdem]

21. Bingo!

I guess that never occurred to some here. :eyes:

[sangh0]

23. Some DUers are EAGER to believe bad things about the Dems.

[tuvor]

19. In other words, pander to those to whom image is substance?

Hell with that.

[redherring]

20. He means it politically

Inasmuch as I want equality for all(including gays), let's face it, this country is homophobic as hell. All the states that voted on that issue voted against gay marriage. Of course, only 50 years ago, the majority of Americans(90% from what I read) were against interracial marriage as well. Just because most Americans are against it doesn't mean that they are right;in fact they are wrong.
But politically speaking it might have been a good idea for Kerry to have said that he was for banning gay marriage. 25% gays voted for Bush anyway, from what I read. It's sad that they would vote against someone who was for their rights. But that's how it was. What can I say.
Clinton is politically very very savvy. Kerry should have listened to him.

[Sandpiper]

26. And the New Deal coalition would still be around if Johnson

Had not signed the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts.

Sacrificing principles to grab the brass ring will ensure our status is a permanent minority party.

[sangh0]

31. Yeah, right

I guess you're not very familiar with how Dems have won the Presidency

(Hint: There isn't one who didn't abandon their principles at some time or another)

[Sandpiper]

38. Sorry, I'm not on board with the abandon our principles strategy

In order to appease the bigot vote.

[sangh0]

40. You just did a 180

Sacrificing principles to grab the brass ring will ensure our status is a permanent minority party.

That's what you said. You said we can't win if we sacrifice principles. Now that I've made your error clear, instead of acknowledging your mistake, you're trying to pull a bait and switch and hope I don't notice.

[Sandpiper]

46. Nice try, but here we go again

In the past 12 years the Democratic Party has:

Sacrificed principles by passing pro big business free trade agreements.

Sacrificed principles by supporting hateful GOP inspired welfare reform.


And during that time we:

Lost the House

Lost the Senate

Lost the Majority of Governships


So please, tell me, how has abandoning our principles been good for us?

[sangh0]

49. YOu only tell half the story

So please, tell me, how has abandoning our principles been good for us?

FDR sacrificed labor unions

FDR sacrificed minimum wage laws

FDR sacrificed child labor laws

ANd during that time we:

Created Social Security

Ended the Great Depression

Created welfare

Passed four New Deals

Made the dem party the majority party for decades

Won the House

Won the Senate

Won the Presidency FOUR TIMES IN A ROW.

[sangh0]

22. PAY ATTENTION TO WHO BELIEVES THIS CRAP

and seems very happy to do so.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

25. Please, where did he say to "abandon gays"?

[Sandpiper]

30. Here

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=14285&sd=11/05/04

[sangh0]

33. An anonymous article with no named sources

and you believe it?

[Sandpiper]

34. You're right, I'm sure The Advocate is part of a Right Wing plot

n/t

[sonicx]

36. it was taken from Newsweek

[sangh0]

39. LOL! Sandpiper doesn't even KNOW the source of the story

but still tries to mock me as if I didn't know.

[Sandpiper]

41. Yes, this would be so inconsistent with Bill's past behavior

Of:

Abandoning unions on NAFTA.

Abandoning the poor on Gingrich's welfare reform.

Vascillating on gays in the military and settling for don't ask/don't tell.

[sangh0]

44. Another 180 from Sandpiper

It was just a few minutes ago he was willing to defend his source because he thought it was The Advocate, a gay paper.

Now that the REAL source has been identified as a Murdoch owned paper (that's Fox News' Murdoch) he's gasping for another excuse to spread this right wing propoganda

[Sandpiper]

47. And yet again more dissembling from sangh0

And the "Bill can do no wrong" crowd.

[sangh0]

50. You're just embarrased becuase you didn't know the source was Murdoch

You thought it was The Advocate, and now you're just getting pissy because I proved you were wrong.

[Sandpiper]

54. And your whole argument

Is based on a logical fallacy: attacking the messenger.

[sangh0]

56. You think I shouldn't attack Murdoch?

Now I see why you're upset.

[Sandpiper]

57. And now your resort to ad hominem

Against me. Boy, it just keeps getting better.

[sangh0]

59. Sandpiper, you've done a lousy job of substantiating your story

Don't blame me for tearing it apart.

[Sandpiper]

60. And now you accuse me of doing what you've done

n/t

[SOS]

69. self delete

[wildeyed]

27. We do need to change our image.

We had a better message and a better candidate. But we lost. We need to find ways to win, to communicate better with a larger segment of the population. And that doesn't mean selling our souls.

[Beacho]

29. I still don't see a damn link

More 'black ops'? who knows, but it's unverified, as far as I'm concerned

[Sandpiper]

32. Link

http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=14285&sd=11/05/04

[sangh0]

42. That link is NOT The source

as above posts point out, Sandpiper doesn't seem to understand that this story originated in The Times, of London, a Murdoch owned paper.

You remember Murdoch, right? Fox News?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

48. So Newsweek got it from the Times of London?

[sangh0]

51. Yep

.

[Jawja]

37. Got a credible link

for this charge?

[Borgnine]

52. What's the point of defeating Republicans if you're to become them?

Some of us are in this for the ideals, not the mentality of warring fraternities or treehouse clubs.

[xchrom]

53. i take back what i said

after reading his remarks on another thread -- he didn't mention abandoning gay folk.

[central scrutinizer]

55. no fucking shit

First he throws union members overboard by pushing for NAFTA and GATT, which threw the Congress to Newt Gingrich in 1994. Then he threw single mothers overboard by signing that Draconian welfare "reform" (actually repeal) bill. I had to vote Nader in 1996 - the betrayals were too much.

[Siyahamba]

61. He might as well join the other party already

He's at least as conservative as Giuliani and Schwarzenegger.

[tedzbear]

58. Fuck Clinton.

eom

[LTRS]

62. Yup, screw him

He signed DOMA because marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's the moral, Christian thing. But remember, blow jobs should be between men and their interns.

[queerart]

64. You Know.......

For 2 LONG YEARS the country was drug through Hell........

But I still supported.........

and in the very end.... this type of behavior even from Clinton does not suprise me one little bit....

2 Parties in the country is not enough..........

[mzmolly]

65. Where did he say "abandon gays" ??? Do you have a link er somethin?

:shrug:

I don't believe he said that.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

66. Guys, wasn't it FOX that reported the "no whining" thing?

Fox, Republicans are always trying to split up the Democratic party. We don't need this crap now. Remember all those lists of "Bush Supporters" we were supposed to boycott. Remember how many turned out to be freaking KERRY supporters?
When I hear Clinton say this, I'll believe it. The man's not perfect. But Im not going to believe it because some MSM source (which also claims Bush won BOTH elections AND that Sadaam was a threat) says so.

[Evergreen Emerald]

67. Divide and conquer

Lovely, guys and gals. Let's eat each other.

[sangh0]

68. And it's always the same people leading the charge

some of them, long time "friends" of ours.