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[Cha]

1. Gotcha!

If this is true then he put his foot in his mouth with that one!

republicans will say anything to become president is what he should have said!

[pruner]

5. what he should've said is…

Republicans and Joe Lieberman will say anything to become president.

[Sean Reynolds]

2. But it's true..........

For both Democrats and Republicans.

[poskonig]

3. Dean talked about "Democrats," not Lieberman.

Though it was directed at Lieberman. Kerry can say crap like "we don't need a foreign policy learning curve" and "governors do poorly in foreign policy," etc. etc., and it is perfectly fine.

But when they start naming people, it makes things *very* easy for the GOP, and that's what people are POed about. Instead of the GOP doing their own dirty work, they say "Joe Lieberman says Gephardt is a big government socialist," "John Kerry says 'Howard Dean wants to raise taxes on the middle class'," et cetera.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

66. I would think it was directed more at Kerry

I did not see the show (damn CNN is not working on campus...every time Dean is on TV something goes wrong with the TV here!) but I would guess that a comment like that would be more directed at Kerry, because Dean has indicated that while he disagrees completely with Lieberman on the issue of Iraq, he at least respects Lieberman for staking out a position and sticking to it, rather than being all over the place like Kerry. I personally think he may be being a little unfair to Kerry...it is hard to know why Kerry voted the way he did, but I think that what his waffling may amount to is that he honestly was and maybe still is torn...I just wish he would come out and say that rather than insisting that his position has been completely consistent.

[dean4america]

4. well

i agree with you on the Kerry point - maybe John shouldn't have been the one to point it out himself, but Russert (hahaha) should have done his job as a journalist and asked about the distinction in a better way.

as for Dean's comment, can't comment except generally since i didn't see the appearance and don't know what was said prior to or after that quoute. however, i guess i could see it working against any of the other candidates in a rovian way, but not dean necessarily, since he a) said it himself and b) will set himself up as the straight shooter.

want to see the tape of it before i comment more fully though

[uptohere]

6. I think he just screwed the pooch

I'm sure Mr Rove is still rollig on the floor.

[haymaker]

13. You wish.

As for Rove, why don't you just ask him?

[quinnox]

7. You gotta be kiddin me

If Dean really did say this, this is another one he will have to apologize for.

I can't believe Dean said this, I will have to see it confirmed.

[Kahuna]

65. He said it. I heard him say it. It was very...

Lieberman-esque. It made me embarrassed for my entire party to hear him say that. It was very self-serving. His whole attitude was self-serving.

[stickdog]

8. Did he really say those exact words?

Was he talking about Bradley's attacks on Gore and counterproductive Democratic in-fighting? Because then, I understand his point.

Still, it was a stupid way to put it, regardless.

[Bombtrack]

9. he's such a friggin hypocrite

he'll say anything to become nominee

he doesn't seem to care much for democrats that aren't card carrying Dean campaign members and agree-ers, period

"the problem with democrats is that they aren't howard Dean"

Dean is very adept at making people believe that he's showing political courage, by implying that others don't while he throws red-meat to his audience

[Name removed]

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[newsguyatl]

36. oh come on!

don't try to feign niceness and sincerity...

we know why you started this thread...

[TahitiNut]

45. "we know"???

The Borg has spoken? :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[newsguyatl]

55. there

was no cynism in my post... just the facts

[haymaker]

19. So many lurking Dean haters, so little time.

Why are so many here so froggy about hitting Dean. All this devisiveness just seems all to scripted.

Hey Karl, it's working.

[Starpass]

39. haymaker--so if people think Dean is a disaster waiting to happen

that means we are "lurking"--like Freepers lurk. I didn't know we are now suppose to be in Nazi lockstep on Dean---who last time I looked wasn't the Dem nominee!!! I guess all people who do not think that Dean is the new Christ are fucking Freepers even if they have been here since the beginning of DU. I wonder what this place is going to become if 1) Dean doesn't get the nomination or 2) he does but loses 50 states)........guess it's the end of DU. LETS RENAME IT THE DEAN UNDERGROUND AND THEN WE CAN GO OUT OF BUSINESS WHEN DEAN FADES INTO OBLIVION.

[Name removed]

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[msanger]

58. unite and conquer

and beat the bejesus out of bush!!

[UnapologeticLiberal]

67. This is not a Dean bashing thread

I did not see the appearance but I do not think it is helpful for any Democrats to say stuff like that...the poster is right that if Dean does not get the nomination, the GOP can use that quote and run ads with it against whoever the nominee is. That is the one thing that has bothered me about Dean since I joined the campaign is that he attacks other Democrats too much, although with the exception of this comment, he seems to have toned that down and focused more on Bush lately.

[flpoljunkie]

10. Dean repeated on Inside Politics today "I'll do whatever it takes to win"

Isn't this what Bush and his father have said in their past election campaigns?

Can't we as Democrats live up to a higher standard than the Bushies?

[Woodstock]

12. So you guys have nothing better to do than split hairs?

I see Pete NYC is still at it with his I've got to say Dean and his supporters are so enthusiastic it touches my heart BUT I just can't resist starting my 92nd nitpicking breaking news guess what Dean just did that was so stupid bashing thread routine.

Oh, cool, and he even added this:

"ON EDIT: I'm NOT inviting posters to bash Dean on this thread. I sincerely wanted to point out what I think was very poor wording on his part. So please don't hijack this thread with Dean-trashing comments."

Hilarious. :eyes:

[flpoljunkie]

21. This is not hair splitting, Woodstock.

This goes to the man's character. I find it offputting and wondered why Dean felt compelled to repeat this mantra today on Inside Politics.

What is he implying? Inquiring minds would like to know.

[Name removed]

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[lynndew2]

57. nitpicking is reading in between the lines Woodstock

I have not made my mind up other then to support whoever gets the nomination. Nitpicking does not qaulify when the canidate is quoted.

he said "That's the problem with Democrats, they'll say anything to become president."

That is about the most stupid thing he could say.

All the accusations that shrub is all lies becomes moot with that statement. He is saying its ok to lie and decieve to become pres. That to me was something he can not overcome and it was the stupidest thing he could have said.

[Name removed]

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[1monster]

56. I'm probably going to ruffle some feathers here, but...

I wouldn't compare Dean to Bush. To me, he's much more like John McCain.....

[Cha]

34. Dean doesn't mean he's going to cheat and rigged the voting

machines! Dean means he's going to work as hard as it takes to Win!

And that's one reason why he's my Candidate! :kick:

[TahitiNut]

48. "Never separate the life you live from the words you speak." (Paul)

:shrug:

[JI7]

11. kind of funny

.

[Cheswick2.0]

16. "That's the problem with Democrats, they'll say anything..."

Everytime I think I might be getting interested in this man's candidacy he sticks his foot in it. WTF is he if not a democrat? He is giving way too much ammo to the other side.

[poskonig]

18. Plueeze. The anti-Dean people are grasping at straws

to cover their own viciousness. I suppose he is dooming the party when he says "we can't win by being Bushlite," right?

:crazy:

[Cheswick2.0]

38. I learned a lesson long ago about party unity

and the eventual nominee should be at least as smart as I am. I have a problem with him seeming to position himself as the outsider by bashing Democrats in general or even particular democrats. This is my position on his behavior and It's not going to change soon. If you want to be the democratic nominee don't bash the party.

[Starpass]

24. Ahh, Cheswick--I believe the "is he a dem, or what" is used by Dean

supporters to bash Clark. Why if this guy can't even declare what party he is then he is no friend of the Dems, right--isn't that what they say of Clark?? If Dean keeps bashing Dems that way then what is Dean----oh, Christ, he isn't trying to be Nader, is he????? Maybe that's why all the Greens disappeared on this board by the Dean-ites are soaring, soaring, soaring.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Name removed]

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[Julien Sorel]

47. Take a deep breath, relax, and read it again:

Ahh, Cheswick--I believe the "is he a dem, or what" is used by Dean supporters to bash Clark.

Now breathe deeply and count to ten. Ommmmmm Ommmmmmm I am one with the universe. Ommmmmmm Ommmmmmm

Your guy made a mistake; it isn't the end of the world.

[Cha]

73. Yeah ...he's not the only one who should take a Big FaT Deep

Breath around here!

[Cheswick2.0]

42. Well, I think he is trying to appeal to all the third party people

to run as an "independent thinker". He should do that with policy, not smoke and mirrors, not "I'm left....er, I'm centrist....er, I'm conservative...er you can't define me, see I am DIFFERENT". That doesn't impress me at all.

[Name removed]

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[poskonig]

20. Ahem, who is winning NH and Iowa?

Hint: his initials are HD. :bounce:

[CoffeePlease1947]

50. Dean is winning in NH?

Last I checked everyone had zero votes so far.

Mike

[Forkboy]

25. thats a good post

still doesn't make your thread seem any better though.

[Cha]

40. There you go bringing up Dean's accident of birth again like

it's some sort of bad thing! You could't be more WRONG! :kick:

[Eloriel]

63. Now YOU go on my ignore list

The Nazi reference by itself almost got you there, not to mention your "pretend" please sell me on Dean thread, but your continued bile in this thread., including the previouos posts, is just over the top.

Buh Bye!!

Eloriel

[Kahuna]

70. I know! Howard was being, "brave" again...

:eyes:

[Cha]

74. Dean is as more Brave than anything you two can come up

with!

[w4rma]

22. Here is the exact quote with context

…
PRESS: But, what does it say to you when Joe Lieberman gets up at the National Press Club and makes a speech-without mentioning you by name-but really says that you are, to use his words, “a ticket to nowhere?”

DEAN: Joe is a great guy, and Joe wants to be president of the United States, and one of the problems with our party is people will say anything to get to be president of the United States, and that’s an example of it. I truly believe that it’s possible that I’m the only person that can beat the president. Obviously that’s totally self-serving, but what’s it going to take to beat President Bush? It’s going to take somebody who can excite our base again, who gives people a reason to vote and then will go out and recruit people who haven’t voted for 10 or 15 years. That’s who’s supporting our campaign, and that’s why I think we’re going to win.
…
http://www.msnbc.com/news/951896.asp?cp1=1

[Cha]

30. Thank you! It just goes to show you ...you have to have the context..

God! they got us workin' overtime here on DU! :-)

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Cha]

75. You didn't have an exact quote to get this thread goin' and I

feel like Jim is right!

[Forkboy]

76. maybe not thoughtful

but spot on.

[Kahuna]

71. AND!?!

How does that make it better? How do you justify it? He didn't have to indict the entire party because he didn't like what Lieberman said.

[Cha]

77. Dean was calling lieberman a liar!

You're always jumping on and critizing just to be critizing so your screaming is becoming impotent.

[quinnox]

That isn't as bad as I thought

Now that I see it in context, still, Dean needs to be careful about generalizing about his own party.

[TahitiNut]

32. I'd say ...

"one of the problems with our political system, compounded by a complacent media, is people will too often say anything to get to be president."

So, I guess he's not far off the mark. :shrug:

[bitchkitty]

33. So how

does that translate to giving Rove the ultimate soundbyte?

[Julien Sorel]

52. What context?

It reads exactly the way the original post stated it did. He even went out of his way to make it a blanket indictment instead of saying 'some Democrats,' or the more courageous 'Joe might be saying anything....' Instead he had to slam everyone.

The fanatic irrationality of Dean's supporters scares the shit out of me, because the vast majority of Americans aren't going to be out there worshipping him like his core supporters do. They are going to see an ordinary politician who makes mistakes, and is tremendously ambitious, and they will see the flaws you people pretend aren't there. Policies do matter, and he isn't the second coming of FDR.

[RetroLounge]

69. So how come the same people who bitched about spineless

Democrats, now bitch when one gets a spine?

Oh yeah, I remember, because he's outpolling your candidate by 20 points.

DEAN: Joe is a great guy, and Joe wants to be president of the United States, and one of the problems with our party is people will say anything to get to be president of the United States, and that’s an example of it.

In other words...

DEAN: Joe is a great guy, and Joe wants to be president of the United States, and one of the problems with JOE is JOE will say anything to get to be president of the United States...

Sounds okay to me...

[Beacho]

23. bah

Much ado about nothing

[Cocoa]

28. maybe not so bad

It's irritating to hear him talk that way, I hope he doesn't make it a habit, it makes him sound like a dem-bashing Green or something, which most people know I can't stand.

It's definitely a gaffe, but if dems can forgive him, then it actually may appeal to "swing voters," makes him look independent, for people who are hung up on that. :shrug:

[legin]

29. You're right PeteNYC

it's not a smart remark.

[bitchkitty]

31. I think that's reaching a bit.

I really don't see the big scandalous deal here.

There's no point in trying to see things in terms of how Karl Rove is going to feel about it. If he's rolling on the floor, it's because he's reading some of the reactions on this thread.

Not a biggie. Dean's going to win!

[poskonig]

35. Right; that's not an "ultimate soundbite" at all.

If Dean starts calling people by name that they are weak on defense, moral degenerates, and tax hikers, perhaps the Dean-haters will have room to speak.

[TahitiNut]

43. "how Karl Rove is going to feel "

... seems to be an unhealthy obsession with far too many here on DU.

As I long ago discovered, I have enough on my hands to figure out what I think about things; I don't have the time to try to predict what others might think -- especially those who either don't use their minds or those who deliberately misrepresent what they think.

[bitchkitty]

83. Rove the propaganda master -

I refuse to let them manipulate me, to the point where I don't watch TV except on rare occasions, and I NEVER watch TV news. Why deliberately subject yourself to manipulation?

But we can't run around minding our manners because we're afraid of Big Bad Karl. I think the positives about Dean will outweigh whatever negative crap he can dream up. I don't think that Dean will just lay back and take it, whatever it is they do dream up to throw at him. The Dean campaign has proven that they've got what it takes to get the votes. Dean's catching on like wildfire. I just feel in my gut that he's going to win!

[Adjoran]

37. The real point

is that he was calling Lieberman a liar.

Probably he had a slip of the tongue and meant to say "country" instead of "party," but it's not a crisp enough sound bite to be a serious problem . . . unless Lieberman gets the nomination, and that seems unlikely.

[Cha]

44. Yeah! Big Deal! lieberman's a liar....who knew?

[avtho]

41. I guess my eyes aren't what they used to be.

I've looked and looked at the original message and: What the hell did he say???? Danged if I can see it. Maybe I'm just going blind. But I don't see what he said:

[grasswire]

46. Dammit!

The punditry will be all over this all week at least.

Watch thyself, Howard. I will not support someone who trashes other Democrats.

[stickdog]

49. "Politicians lie" = The ultimate soundbite?

Not quite. He should have phrased it differently (by not singling out Democrats), but, seen in context, it was just another example of Dean's refreshingly candid bluntness.

[zekeson]

53. Its early in the season. The sky hasn't and isn't falling

Dean will make more mistakes. So will Kerry, and Edwards, and Dennis K, and W. Clark should he come aboard. Lieberman IS a mistake, but that is another thread. Everyone needs to chill a little and hope we can all work together to get the best candidate to take on the * machine and remove them from power. We are not going to accomplish that if we pick at every mistake the candidates make. Lets let Rove and Co. find the mistakes and do the attacking.

The original poster may have had good intentions pointing out an error Dean made, but geez, gang, can we cut down on the attacks here? Were all Dems working to elect a Dem to replace a genicidal idiot. The stakes are high.

[maggrwaggr]

60. "Don't hate me because I'm popular"

Remember that old commercial "don't have me cuz I'm beautiful?"

That's what it's like with Dean. Now the Democrats have someone who's actually popular and people want to shoot him down.

It's just plain weird.

NO, I WON'T SUPPORT ANY CANDIDATE UNLESS he's some esoteric guy nobody's ever heard of!!!!

If everybody loves my guy, then I'M NOT SO SPECIAL!!

Jeez you dean-bashers, get real

[Name removed]

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[Cha]

80. Charred Kettle calling Pot Black!

[Kahuna]

64. it struck me as an ugly thing to say..

He came across as cocky and arrogant. You are right. Statements like that will not help the eventual nominee. Dean behaves as if he is above everyone. That attitude will soon wear thin on voters.

[Forkboy]

79. I'm sure you were looking for positives

[pasadenaboy]

68. If mis-speaking could cost you an election

Whistle ass would never be president.

This is much ado about nothing.

[tjdee]

72. "People will say anything to be president-"-and Dean in grainy B&W.

And then, "I will do whatever it takes to win."

One of the things I particularly dislike about Dean is his ability to both insult the entire party and build himself up in one fell swoop. Oh, unless this is another 'misspeaking'.

Don't they have interviews in Vermont? Seriously.

[Cha]

78. You anti Dean People will say anything! So I'm not impressed

with any of your latest gripes.

[tjdee]

81. You're always so positive!

Even though I don't like Howard Dean, I certainly can appreciate your positive outlook no matter what. I look for it on the threads, LOL!

[ryharrin]

82. I think it would have been a great statement if he had replaced democrats

with politicians.