Kucinich fans...take heart. Democrats love underdogs.

[camero]

From www.stpetetimes.com

In September 1991, Bill Clinton was at 5% in the polls. He came from nowhere to win the presidency.

In December 1987, Dukakis was at 10% behind Gary Hart and proceeded to win the nomination.

In November 1975, Jimmy Carter was at 2% and went on to win the presidency.

Only twice in the last 50 years has a front-runner won the nomination, both former VPs. Walter Mondale in 1984 and Al Gore in 2000.

I'm undecided at the moment(I want to take my time and see who has the most cojones to take on Bush.) But just because someone is lagging at the polls now, doesn't mean we have decided already.

Bob Graham and Wesley Clark also are there so they should not give up either. Just give the voters your message and let us decide.

[JohnKleeb]

1. Thank you camero

I used to be real down but Ive been up for a while now. We musnt give up. He is a great man. Thanks camero though I think all of us appreciate this, time will tell.

[sasquatch]

2. Thanks I needed that

People in the Kucinich camp always get worried about Kucinich losing because he isn't mister popular. We always forget that America loves underdogs and the Democratic party especaly loves underdogs.

[NoSurrender]

18. It's not even begun yet...

The Congressman has a message that resounds with the mood of a country that's being torn asunder by a system that has forgotten and ignored them. Millions have given up on the electorial process alltogether, and Dennis Kucinich has the policies and the vision that's going to bring them back.

The votes are there, we have only to go get them.
And above all else, this fight isn't over by a long shot.

[newyawker99]

49. Hi NoSurrender!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bobthedrummer]

3. I'm a voter for DK not a fan.

He is clearly what I recall the Democratic Party was all about.

BTW, here is a Kucinich related story to the socalled cause of the blackout.

The more I learn about this Democrat the more I admire him!

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/082603Dong/082603dong.html


http://www.kucinich.us/

[JohnKleeb]

5. Yep but I count myself as a fan too

and I will vote for him for reelection in 2008 since I cant vote in 2004 :(. President Kucinich has a nice ring to it :) dont you agree Bob :)? Hes likable and above all is the anti thesis of Bush.

[bobthedrummer]

8. AS a fan that votes then {and will be counted}

Yes John, I like the sound of President Kucinich very much!:hi:

[JohnKleeb]

13. I wonder who the vice president will be

I like John Lewis or :) Bernie Sanders.

[Desertrose]

6. good point..."fan" sounds more like a worshipper,eh?

I admire DK and support him because we share the same views....I will vote for him and help spread his name & what he stands for....

I think everyone at this point should be excited about the possibilities for their candidate....I am just feeling very good for Dennis and what is going to come campaign wise!

Peace and Possibilities!!
DR

[leftofthedial]

4. He's an FDR-style Democrat

being tarred with the brush of socialism by the neocon media

[cherryperry]

10. Yes, he is, but it seems

that people don't know how to deal with genuine passion anymore. Dennis stands out because he is so attached to his issues that his delivery is generally more passionate than other candidates. I think in general this country has a hard time with emotions and I'm not sure why. I could certainly speculate and do have my ideas, but all I know is they sure take style over substance most of the time.

However, that doesn't bring me completely down because he could absolutely wipe the floor in a debate with shrub. Can't you just see it? It would be so much funnier than the Gore-Bush debates because Kucinich has everything Gore had except he's more sincere and not wooden at all...plus, of course, we'll be monitoring those voter lists THIS time!

[quinnox]

7. Indeed so, anything can happen, the curtain

just raised on the race. This is the traditional start of the political primary season, time for the real dance to begin.

Kucinich, Graham, Edwards, they all have a chance to win this thing.

You can throw out all the polls from the past, they are meaningless.

[DS1]

9. Speaking of Kucinich fans, saw something great today,

Labor Day, in the rain, on 91 South in Mass, Kucinich fans were on three consecutive overpasses holding up large sheet-sized signs and banners.

That's dedication.

[JohnKleeb]

12. cool DS1

[Ein]

11. He seemed to get the best response in Iowa.

Beautiful consorptium of people there.

[Darranar]

14. Thanks, Camero!

whenever I lack hope about his chances, I remembers posts like yours.

[Dirk39]

15. I'm in the mood to bet tonight....

If Kucinich will win the election, I immigrate from Germany to the USA.
I promise,
Dirk

[JohnKleeb]

17. :) wow

You will like Kucinich's America. Peace and Prosperity and helping your fellow man. We're finally got get with Europe and Canada on key issues like health care, war(he wants to join the world court and sign the landmine treaty) among others. Hope you come here from a part German.

[karlschneider]

16. Unfortunately, we live in a real world. DK is not electable. Read on,

I would vote him with no hesitation. And so would 3 or maybe 4 million other people. Not enough. Even in a 'fair election'. No way, now how can this fellow get enough popular support to come even close to challenging the result. Do I like this scenario? No, HELL no, but it is the way of the country. I'm in Oklahoma and I can GUARANTEE Dennis would not get more than a sparse handful of votes. Maybe 47. And I will bet Ten Thousand Dollars against a cold cup of coffee that he would not get (if he were nominated as the Dem candidate) more than 20% of the popular vote nationally.

I ask folks around here what they think of the Dem candidates. NOT ANY of them know who they are. And this is basically a 'democratic' county.
I can not explain it...it does seem that they all have been brainwashed sufficiently to believe that Dubya has everything 'under control'....

I stop now. Mad. Disgusted. Really pissed off.
End of rant.

[Ein]

19. What makes it more valid...

To think that the many are not in fact, left-wing? Has the DLC method of pandering to the center and right done anything?

I, for one, think a Kucinich nomination would draw many of the apathetic into the voting system.

[NoSurrender]

20. Err...

True, if we play to the same 55% of America that still votes, and really on our base of alienated liberals and the infamous 'swing voters'... we might as well just throw in the towel now.

The coalition that Roosevelt built and Johnson cultivated still exsists, we've just let it go to rot. It's time to worry less about being non-threatening for the soccer moms, and give the working people a message that they can take to heart. Oklahoma will probably never go Democratic again; why bother with a lost cause? But bring a truely progressive economic stance to hard hit states in the south and on the Rust Belt, and we've got ourselves a force to be reckoned with.

[camero]

22. Soccer moms need to eat too

And when we portray Bush as the Wal-Mart Economy (low pay, no benefits), the tide will turn.

[camero]

21. He needs more name recognition

Like the others I mentioned, none had name recognition before Iowa and New Hampshire.

I like Kucinich because of the ones I have seen so far, he is the most likely to take on the established candidates(especially Bush) and set the terms of the debate.

Plus he showed alot of guts as Mayor of Cleveland in taking on the power companies. He's the one I think that will stand up to Corporate America.

[hippywife]

23. Well, I'm in OK, too

Karl and instead of sitting on our rumps saying he's unelectable, we went out and walked the only Labor Day Parade around these parts (Henryetta)...in the rain. Twelve of us got our banner out front and walked the parade route handing out info and buttons...in the rain. Still soaking wet, we then went to the BBQ afterwards and passed out more info and talked to everyday hard-working laborers about how Dennis fought the Enron of his day as mayor of Cleveland. Why? Because we believe Dennis IS electable.

Only one other candidate had any representation in the parade...two guys (staying dry all the way) drove a pickup with Lieberman signs posted all over it. No other supporters for any other candidate in evidence at all...even tho this parade has one of the highest labor union attendances anywhere in OK.

He's electable if we say he's electable!! If enough of us not only believe, but get out there and tell people who he is and what he stands for...you best believe he is electable. ;)

[Mairead]

25. 47% of non-voters in 2000 sat home because they saw no diffs

Here are the numbers for 2000, according to the Census:

203M US adults
186M US adult citizens
130M US registered voters
111M actual voters


Of the 19M registered voters who did not vote,

• 20% flatly said they believed it wouldn't matter and


• 27% gave some excuse (too busy, inconvenient, etc) that amounts to the same thing

If we presume the same breakdown for the 76M total who didn't vote (registered and non), we have a potential upside of 35,720,000 votes. If we give them a reason to turn out

And those 35M votes are only the disaffected ones...the number doesn't include the people who have structural problems: no transport, no babysitting, 'registration problems' (gee, what could that mean), etc. If we solved all those, too, we'd have on the order of 60M more votes...more than the total that Gore won with. And I say 'we' would have them because the people with structural problems are the working people for whom Dennis's message hits home.

[birdman]

29. So let me get this straight

Kucinich, who has been campaigning for months
and at last count stands at 0-1% in the New Hampshire
polls should be nominated by the Dems because although
he hasn't been able to impress the people who are
interested and paying attention he's sure to get huge
support among the millions who didn't give a shit enough
to vote the last time.

Is that your contention?

[Mairead]

30. I doubt that's your intention, to be blunt

Dean is a multi-millionaire elite who has been campaigning for the best part of 2 years. He's content to be mis-portrayed as a liberal by Media Inc and the DLC and to pick up the support of people who don't realise exactly where he stands.

Dennis, on the other hand, is a working-class guy who holds a Congressional seat and has been campaigning since February. He was written off in April (he had only raised $175K, he should drop out). But then he came in second in the poll, started getting more money, got some good endorsements, and has been doing well everywhere he speaks. He's accelerating.

A woman I'm working with on a project thinks she converted a neighbor of hers over the weekend, in fact. He was for Dean because he thought Dean was liberal, and he thought that because he's not (yet) a computer user and so must get all his information from Media Inc. She says he was horrified after she pointed out Dean's actual budgetary priorities. Click. I think that 'click' is going to happen with increasing frequency over the coming months.

As George Forbes, a former political opponent, says of Dennis, 'Nobody likes him but the people'. You should keep that in mind.

[birdman]

31. I was addressing the fantasy of the non-voters

This has reappeared with some frequency in
Dem circles for more than 30 years. The people
who don't vote are apolitical. They're not waiting
for a savior or somebody to alert them to the dangers
of space based mind control weapons. They're a dry well.

You have to tailor the party's message to the existing electorate
and Dean has done that better than Kucinich. DK is
one of the good guys (although the space based weapons and
Dept. of Peace are a bit bizarre) but he will never be
President. His supporters are very ardent but they should
have a second choice ready to go.

[Mairead]

33. "The people who don't vote are apolitical"

That's what Alinsky was assured by everyone about the Back Of The Yards community, too. And they were wrong, too. Alinsky demonstrated that all the BOTY folk needed was a reason to stand up. All they needed was to feel that they counted, that their opinions and votes mattered. Once they believed they could make a difference, they stood up.

47% of US non-voters feel that they don't count and can't make a difference. So they don't stand up. Change their feelings, change their behavior.

The right formulation is 'apolitical people don't vote', not 'people who don't vote are apolitical'

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. Yeah, when I was leafletting at the Minnesota State Fair

I was saddened by the number of people who told me that they didn't vote because it didn't matter who was in office; basically, things were still miserable.

I suspect that there's a mass national psychological depression prevailing, because one of the symptoms of depression is believing that one's problems are hopeless and that nothing can be done, even when impartial observers can see plenty of solutions.

And why shouldn't people feel this way? In the twenty-three years since Reagan took office, working people have seen their wages decline in real terms and the jobs that once provided upward mobility disappear. Their parents could buy a house on a blue collar income, and they can't. The ambitious people in their parents' generation could easily work their way through college in four years, and they can't. Eight years of Clinton didn't change much for the people at the bottom. Eight years of Clinton meant more "free trade" agreements, welfare "reform," and the continuation of the drug war.

Both parties have either screwed or ignored the working class.

[Mairead]

41. I get the same thing, Lydia

People say 'what's the use' and 'they're each as bad as the other' and 'I've given up'. It's really saddening. I think you've got something with your idea of 'depression'. That would certainly fit with these attitudes.

What'll you bet that Dean's support is a mix of right-wingers --like the ones here who boast that they're well aware of Dean's real politics-- and kids who are too young ever to have known anything but right-wing hegemony. So Dean seems like a dose of rebellion because they've no idea what the world is like without some flavor of Republican effing things up.

[dpbrown]

42. "Because it matters who's President"

It's got a nice "campaigny" kind of ring to it, doesn't it.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[Terwilliger]

34. the existing electorate is swayed with a kid holding a flag

the American people are idiots

[birdman]

35. You won't get an argument on that point

but the existing electorate is the only game in town.

The idea that we can ignore political realities and
do anything more than marginalize ourselves is foolish.

[dpbrown]

43. I don't think it's a matter of marginalization

I think the electorate (including the ones who didn't vote) are waiting for a choice for President that resonates with their core values. The DLC and election consultants have taught candidates that the 40/40/20 rule is sacrosanct, that only the "20% in the middle" matter, and that they have to engage in, essentially, focus group politics.

I think they're wrong, but that their bad advice is how we ended up here.

I think that a populist able to tie responsible programs with fiscal responsibility to make this nation great again will light a fire under enough of the 80 million who didn't vote for President last time, along with the 100 million or so who did, to turn the 40/40/20 rule on its head. Kucinich's plan for the Pentagon oozes fiscal responsibility, acceptable value for taxes paid, and a targeted guarantee to work harder to make the nation safe from terrorism. Same with his Universal Single Payer Health Care system. Instead of using mythical "rescinded tax cuts" to pay more money into a corrupt system of private insurers, he finds the funding in bloated CEO pay and the waste of administrative costs.

People are not going to have to scratch too far below the surface to see that Kucinich's plans make sense, both in the "strong nation" sense and in the "fiscally responsible" sense.

I guess that's why Dennis gets 50% of the Republican vote in his district, in which he just earned his fourth reelection with 70% of the total vote.

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[birdman]

44. Prescription for disaster

The Dems have been trying for decades to tap
those non-voters. Ain't gonna happen. The
40/40/20 split is not a creation of the DLC
(sheesh - that all purpose bogeyman) it's
there for all to see in polls and election
results.

Almost all the non-voters don't care - they're
not interested in politics and so they're never
going to hear about Kucinich or any other candidate.

The idea that these people are sitting out there waiting
for the candidate who will repeal the Patriot Act and
protect against the mind control weapons in space is absurd.

[dpbrown]

45. The idea that these voters can't be reached is absurd

As long as politicians don't resonate with the core ideas that motivate these disaffected voters, the 40/40/20 rule, and its corollary, the ever-declining pie, will continue to eat away at the ability of the government to move the nation forward.

And frankly, it doesn't matter whether these people would be the most motivated by someone promising to repeal the U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act or ban space-based weaponry like the "Star Wars" system, or something else.

The fact is, in other countries, a vastly higher number of people vote, because they feel invested in the system. This proves that there is a way for democracy to engage more of the population in determining the character of the representation it chooses.

Cynicism probably won't get us there, however. But thanks for the example, nonetheless.

[Mairead]

48. The real 'prescription for disaster' is your 'resistance is useless' shtik

As the late Prof. Harris said:

Fighting back doesn't guarantee success. But it changes the odds.

[diamondsoul]

39. You're wrong.

I WAS one of those non-voters. I sat on my self-pitying ass and let Shrub move in. Why? because I didn't matter. Well Dennis Kucinich is what woke me up, along with quite a few local non-voters who had been feeling the same way I did until I introduced them to Kucinich.

No, I don't blame people who voted for Bush, I blame myself and people like me who didn't wake up before we let this mess happen. It won't happen again.

[birdman]

40. Sure - every four years there are some who get reinvolved

and others who drop out. But the number of people
who vote shows no sign of changing and it's certainly
not going to change for DK who polls lower than the
other Dems.

Dems have been talking about those non-voters for years
but it's a waste of time. We have to play on the field
that's there, not dream about finding a different one.

[diamondsoul]

47. What's your fascination with stats from 175-800 voters?

"But the number of people
who vote shows no sign of changing and it's certainly
not going to change for DK who polls lower than the
other Dems."

I could give a crap about the polls right now. They aren't conclusive and you're nuts if you think they are. Cripes, the polls are how we got here in the frist place! Everybody wants to back the "winner" no matter what kind of sh*t gets dumped on our heads afterwards.

Newsflash, I'm not going to let you ignore the fact that the polls show any one of the bottom candidates can rise to the top just by pulling the undecideds into their efforts.

As to playing the field, yeah you play the existing one and ADD TO IT if you do it right. Cater to the right if you want. This voter isn't playing the same ol' same ol' game.

[Colin Ex]

27. To paraphrase BartCop

Oklahoma hasn't voted for a Dem since the Old Testament.

Regardless of whether Kucinich is electable or not, between he and Al Sharpton, the debate is much more progressive than it would be.

So just wait until primary season is over and it'll be motherfuckin' Go Time, heh.

-C

[JohnKleeb]

24. You know what the perfect song for us is

We all need some who we can lean on
That said many songs symbolize DK and what he is all about. Whats not to like. Even if he were still against abortion I would support him.

[diamondsoul]

38. Oooh, John, that's a great song!

There's even a Reggae version of it that most people absolutely LOVE!

Wonder if we could get permission to use it. Hmmm. *runs off to search for info*

[ShaneGR]

26. Unfortunately for DK, the underdog Dems like is Dean

Just an observation. Heck, DK won't even win Ohio on Super Tuesday.

[Mairead]

28. Sure. Keep whistling.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

32. Those are some interesting stats.

Unfortunately, I think the "underdog" many people have chosen is Howard Dean, not DK. Too bad, he really tells it like it is, you have to love that about him.

[JohnKleeb]

50. anything can happen Maggie

:) besides cabinet post still is something I would love. I do like that about Dean but Kucinich does it too, I guess no offense to em they are playing their hated DLC tactics on Kucinich. Jimmy Carter was no where this time, and I know RFK was killed but at this time he hadnt entered and I know he wouldnt had won. Dean's not really much of an underdog anymore, maybe just maybe someone may consider DK as a Veep but a lot of the Deannies seem to think that Wesley Clark would be better. Anyways I dont think Dean-Kucinich or vice versa do despite their war oppostion and some other stuff they are different democrats.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. Sept. 9th NY Primary>>>Kucinich!!!

[David Zephyr]

46. Dean Fan Here, But Kucinich & Braun Have Best Healthcare Plans

And Kucinich will repeal NAFTA.

I honor him for these stands as they mirror mine. And I honor and respect all Kucinich supporters.