An Opposition Party!

[H2O Man]

One reason people are upset about the election is because our society defines it in terms of win/lose. In truth, we did not "lose." This goes beyond the very valid questions concerning possible voter fraud. Even if the election results were approximately what they are reported as being, we did not lose.

The republicans are saying that they have a mandate, because Busg got more votes than any previous president. By that same logic, we have a mandate, because there were more votes against Bush than against any previous president.

We have heard people from this administration mock our European friends. I am convinced that this is in large part because they realize that if we, the democratic left in the United States, make closer working relationships with our friends of like mind in Europe, we will toss away the idea that we "lost," and realize that we are now the Opposition Party.

As the Opposition Party, we may have the executive branch, and we may not have the majority in the legislative branch, either. But we are in a very strong position within the congress, in both the House of Representatives and the Senate. And, not only does this include some of the wisest Elder Statesmen such as Byrd and Kennedy, we also have some of the most talented "minority" powerhouses, like Obama and Rangel. More, we have the most powerful women, including Nacy Pelosi and Hilary Clinton.

What we need to solidify our power in the country is a stronger base. That simply implies a stronger "grass roots." We need to begin to organize and have our presence felt on the local school board, on the town council, in the county and state offices. We may not be the majority in all of the communities, but we need to have more representation. When we are seen on the local level, as reflecting community values, we will be seen on the state level, and then the national level, as representing the best in community values.

An opposition party that is invested in the political system from the wards of the neighborhood to the halls of congress is able to keep the other party in check. We are in a much better position than the republican administration wants us to think.

We've been lied to for too long. We are not the people who lost the election. We are the party that placed a close second. And I do believe that everyone on DU would rather be in the second place opposdition party than the first place republican party.

I must add that when we recognize the strength of being the Opposition Party, we can put the foolish finger-pointing that threatens to divide people behind us. We will not gain strength by sacrificing our fellow democrats. We will not become a more moral party by compromising with the immorality that defines the republicans. We need to concentrate on that which unites us. And that which we have in common can be summed up in two easily identified ways

First, we have a common enemey. That same enemy is attempting to deny each smaller group of democrats their constitutional rights. In every case. The person who wants to create a climate of hatred focused on gay and lesbian couples, who are asking for nothing more than what every couple should be granted -- respect -- is the same enemy that wants to limit the children of democrats the opportunity to aspire to excellence; they expect our children to make peace with mediocrity. That same enemy that wants our children to fight and die in Iraq for some "freedom" that will be a result of a crooked election there, are the same enemy that has disenfranchised thousands of black people in Florida in 2000, and thousands more black, brown, red, yellow, and white people in 2004. The same enemy that wants giant tax cuts that bankrupt our children's future is the same one that has rolled back 30 years of environmental laws. I say it again: we have a common enemy.

Second, we have common goals: we all want to live in communities where families have the ability to enjoy life and love and liberty. We want clean water and good jobs. We want people to have access to education, and to have medical care they can afford. We want the freedom of religion that liberates, and freedom from religion that oppresses. We want to be a respected member of the world community, not the most hated nation in the history of human kind.

We have an opportunity to define our party in 2005. We will never enjoy this opportunity again. Let's do our best.

[bullimiami]

1. i have said this as well

it would suit me much better if we were a real opposition party, i dont know when it all turned into some asshole republican leading us to the slaughter and us following him.

[H2O Man]

2. When we change our mindset

regarding how we define ourselves, it absolutely changes who we allow to define us.

[Edmond Dantes]

13. In the interim, it would help if we neutralized the political

effectiveness of Karl Rove.

[H2O Man]

14. That needs to be an immediate goal

and could easly happen if people focused attention on his role in the Plame scandal.

[Edmond Dantes]

16. Actually, I was wondering when you might show up. :-)

I completely agree about the Plame scandal.

How do you think Karl is holding up, knowing that is going on in the background?

On edit: So far it does not appear to have had any impact on his effectiveness. However, we know he went bonkers when the protesters were outside his house.

And also on edit: I realize this is your thread, but my focus is on Rove.

[H2O Man]

18. I think that Karl Rove

is an over-confident, obnoxious, arrogant specimen. I think that he is willing to blame anyone else for his misbehavior, including people in the VP's office. And this, to be honest, is exactly the type of man I want to be scheduled to sit on the hot seat, once Fitzgerald brings down some indictments.

[Edmond Dantes]

19. But is he squirming YET?

[H2O Man]

23. I think that Rove is convinced

that he is smarter than everyone else. Including Patrick Fitzgerald. Hence, he may believe he has outsmarted him. But that perception may change dramatically very soon.

[Edmond Dantes]

24. Cool!

[Political_Junkie]

3. The wise Waterman does it again.

Thanks, this is good. :)

[H2O Man]

4. It's time to stop

allowing our enemy to define reality.

[Political_Junkie]

6. sbsolutely!

[senseandsensibility]

30. I agree!

What a great post!!:)

[mzmolly]

5. Excellent post H20guy.

:hi:

You missed your calling my friend, get thy buns to Washington because we need leadership! ;)

The most frustrating thing for me is that we let the R's define "values" and we must loudly declare our own. We need to stand up NOW in unison and say "we are the party of values" ...

I think you've done a fine job of articulating on this issue.

Thank you.

[H2O Man]

7. Thank you.

It is important to remember that those men and women in Washington are not going to be able to do for us what we should be doing for ourselves. Concepts such as freedom and liberty aren't anything that someone can give you, or take away. They are who we are (or should be) and how we think, act, and feel. That said, I am planning to rn for a county office in 2005. This is a highly republican area, and democrats simply do not win elections here. But I'm going to change that. I do not accept defeat. It is not an option.

If there were more democrats that were willing to do the yeoman's work at the local level, to dig in the dirt and build the foundation for our party, realizing that they will get no attention or rewards for their hard work, and willingly accepting the sacrifices involved, we could rebuild this party.

[mzmolly]

9. Agreed. And bravo to you for running for office!

:toast:

[sangh0]

34. Let us know when you run

.

[H2O Man]

67. it's one year away

It's a local office. No big deal. But people need to be willing to work hard for "no big deals." These positions help build the foundation so that others can be in a position to take the more important positions.

[sangh0]

8. Yes

In a war, one the first tasks is to identify the enemy and identify one's allies. We have to stop striking out blindly in anger.

IMO, history shows that the only way to implement meaningful and lasting change is through organized political activity. This means we must stop focusing on identifying those who do not act with a rigid adherence to ideology in favor of identifying what and who we are fighting for, and what will best help us achieve those goals.

[H2O Man]

10. An old lesson:

Alone, we are like individual fingers that our enemy can easily break. Together, we form a powerful fist capable of protecting our interests.

It is good to recognize that this powerful fist has four fingers and a thumb: no two are exact. Thank goodness for variety.

In politics, and especially in our party, we need to appreciate those differences. Each individual, like each group, will have some strengtyhs and some weaknesses. Yet if we all had the exact same strengths, and the exact same weaknesses, our party would rapidly degenerate, and it would always be easily defeated by even a weak enemy. Other people's weaknesses are not something that we should point fingers at, make fun of, or despise, any more than other people's strengths are worthy of some type of worship. We need to think in a more progressive manner than do children in Jr. High School, or our enemies will always treat us like 7th graders.

[sangh0]

12. We need to think of ourselves as siblings

You don't throw your brothers and sisters out of the family for being different or disagreeing with you.

[WHAT]

53. plus...

weakness can be strength in one situation...

and strength can be weakness in another...

the process of how it is "tweaked" is what becomes important...

[H2O Man]

60. That's very true ....

We have many options right now, and almost all of them are good. The days when we might be tricked into believing definitions of strong and weak put forth by the republican party are long gone. And the days of letting some Fox news commentator define good and bad are long gone, too.

[Nordic]

11. nice try

But where was the Democratic party on the BBV issue?

Why didn't they do whatever they had to do to block the use of BBV in 2004?

I guess Pelosi was too busy getting her faced Botoxed to do anything about it.

Fuck them.

[H2O Man]

15. I'm trying to understand

what it is you are saying. The BBV issue ..... have you noticed people on here addressing it? This is as much part of the democratic party as any other part, isn't it?

I'm not sure what your problem with Nancy Pelosi might be. I'd guess that the democratic party has more serious problems to deal with. Either way, rather than resort to crude comments that tend to reflect on your shortcomings rather than hers, perhaps you could work on learning to express yourself in a less ignorant manner.

If your political philosophy in regards to the democratic party can best be summed up in your "fuck you," then I wish you all the luck in the world in organizing a new political party.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

20. hey H2O

My problem with organizing the grassroots to take back local government and work our way up is the level of single minded opportunism required.

The difference between us and the repug is our willingness to sink below common decency and honest practice.

When we are faced with a choice to cheat, lie, steal, and back stab we chose to take the high road. The repugs, on the other hand, don't even bat an eye before pouncing.

Which came first repug strategies to takeover government or repugs being amoral political operatives.

I fear that decent people have been co opted into the repug strategy and over time have become the ruthless politicos they are today.

I don't want to be so single minded that I allow myself to become that which I detest.

[H2O Man]

25. Interesting ....

25 years ago, I helped two people get elected onto a local school board. Today, they have become exactly what they ran against, and a couple other people are looking to run against them. So it happens. There is no question about that.

But it doesn't mean that it is the only option. It also doesn't mean that for the first decade, for example, the two people who I helped in 1979 weren't effectively progressive.

Grass roots politics isn't perfect. But until a better opportunity to improve things comes along, I believe it offers us our best chance.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

27. Thanks for the reply

Although I agree with the power corrupts argument I am more talking about the tactics required to systematically take control of government from the ground up.

The ralph ried's of the world are prepared to take out even there own party incumbent candidates (who are doing a good job in their respective positions) for even considering and independent thought or initiative.

The opportunism, and ethics needed to destroy the character of siting officials that stand in the way of an agenda, and the depths with which you need to sink to achieve the lock step necessary for such lofty ambitions does not exist in the hart of a true progressive.

I think progressives, moderate Dem's, and social conservatives (not religious zealots) want to live together as one nation that works cooperatively and peacefully. They don't want to live in a constant state of battle preparedness looking to pounce on any opportunity to strike a blow against the enemy within. Nor do I think we want to always be on guard.

I don't think anybody but power crazed, war mongering, capitalists want to seize control of all the branches of government and remove checks and balances.

What I think we want is to get rid of these assholes dressed as republicans and get back to living our lives assured we have checks and balances in place with the best of the best paid top dollar to protect them, so that these bastards or their offspring never get near a lever of power again.

The true left wing issues of social justice and environmental activism indeed deserve top priority, but first I think we need to rid ourselves of the fascists. They are the cause of most of our problems. Imagine how effective letters and activism would be if the poor local official we target was allowed to actually make a decision without worrying that his family would be threatened.

How do we do this?

sug

[Amigust]

29. "need to rid ourselves of the fascists" - Start by redefining "person"

as a human being, not to include a corporation in the meaning, as regards the right to "free speech".

[SomthingsGotaGive]

32. Thats what we do after they are gone.

They hold the power to do that just now.

We need ways to rid ourselves of them.

[H2O Man]

66. I think that is so important....

and it is a key to putting people before profit motives.

[Nordic]

22. Pelosi, Daschle, Kennedy, Hillary, any of 'em

Why didn't they stop BBV?

Until you can answer that question, the Democratic party deserves to die.

[H2O Man]

26. I guess what you are saying

represents a short-cut to thinking that doesn't hold great promise to serve your future needs. I could quite easily answer your question, but that would merely allow you to continue to not find those answers for yourself. Perhaps it would be more beneficial for you, if you indeed are at all interested in the truth, to look up that answer yourself. I will give you a clue: look at the most recent legal challenge that was rejected in court. You might take the time to get even enough of a grasp of how this works to enable you to recognize what individuals can and cannot do.

[KoKo]

39. Did you see Pelosi's embarrassing address at Dem Convention? She

giggled and acted like it was her first speech before a large audience. She reminded me of Jenna, fgs! I never commented about it here on DU or about anything at "Our" Party Convention. But, she really isn't the kind of forceful spokesperson we need in this dire time of crisis.

And, she did "botox" her eyes. What's with these people? Did she get a recommendation from DeLay's plastic surgeon? Hair transplants, rugs and botox rampant in the House and Senate when they should be spending time attending to the country's business. Look at Liddy Dole? She seems to have gotten "the works." Look at most of them with the "hair plugs" and silk suits. I've watched Joe Biden's whole scalp be implanted since the Anita Hill hearings!

Give me Carl Levin who wears his glasses on the end of his nose which looks like it's always planted in serious papers. He's rumpled and his hair is thinning...but he looks like he works hard.

Looks don't always signify how hard one works...but vanity does have it's downside...:-(

[H2O Man]

41. I hear you ....

I think that it's accurate to say that our culture has an unhealthy obsession with plastic. I don't think that it's necessarily a political issue, but to any extent that it may be, it should not be cause for a division between democrats. I may think a man's hair piece looks foolish, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to agree with him on the need to keep good jobs in the USA. I may not like another person's choices in wardrobe, but I can share a concern about the environment. I may not care for a 21-year old's taste in music, but I don't want him drafted. We need to be mature enough to concentrate on what unites us, rather than be fooled into divisions based upon the smallest and least significant things.

The people in the congress aren't avoiding doing that which they need to do because of the cosmetic things you mention. We have to move beyond judging by appearances, not merely because it is shallow, but because it is wrong. It's a shame that our culture forces women to reduce themselves to a plastic shell. It's a shame that our culture judges men in politics on how well they can deliver a sound-bite.

I remember that Gandhi spoke of Socrates as being recorded as having the ugliest features in all of Greece. In today's world, Socrates would be ignored because he is not one of the beautiful people. But like Gandhi, he lived his life as a search for truth. Find the truth, and that is a more important form of beauty that our party needs to recognize.I realize that is what you are saying about Carl Levin, of course.

[msongs]

17. the problem is....we need a few red states to turn blue or we will

not win in presidential elections (fraud or not).

Msongs
dean obama 2008
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[H2O Man]

21. That's true .....

We need some red states to turn blue for a number of reasons. Those reasons include the communities that people inhabit in those states. It includes the school boards, village boards, town councils, and city governments. It includes the quality of county services, which include things like mental health and public health programs. We need to improve the quality of familiy life in communities. We need to improve the quality of community life in states. And once we do that, the congressional elections will begin to reflect our community values, rather than impose big business "values" on our communities. Then you will see those red states begin to turn blue. And then the presidential elections will take care of themselves.

We've been tricked for years. we've been played for fools. We've been hoodwinked into thinking we should start at the top. Nope: we need to work at the grass-roots level first.

[Amigust]

28. More votes also were cast AGAINST him than any other president.

[Gold Metal Flake]

31. I am listening to you, H2O Man.

I have questions.

I also have questions for Thomas Frank. And Paul Krugman.

I hope to present them privately and have some measure of discourse in time, as the questions are distilled and brought into focus.

I feel I am closing in on a philosophy and thus a plan of action for myself.

One general point: While finding DU has been instrumental to putting me back in touch with my very liberal core, it may not be a good place for deep discussions of policy and plans. Too many eyeballs from the dark side are on these great forums.

I urge others to start looking inward and outward on an individual basis. Some things you share here, some you don't. Keep in mind that these forums are heavily mined in a very methodical manner by the Reds, who value information almost as much as hate and money.

It has begun. Good luck to all.

[H2O Man]

36. Information is power.

No doubt about that. There are some things that can be said here; there are some that can't; and there is even more that doesn't need to be said.

Keep in touch, and let's keep this thread/discussion going.

[indigobusiness]

61. The wisdom to process information

into meaningful and practical potential that resonates with the people is the kicker.

[H2O Man]

63. Yes, it is .....

We need to learn to speak the language that a large segment of the population speaks. I've said a couple of things so many times on here, that I'm sure some people are tired of hearing them. But I have to repeat one thing to get to another point.

In every election there are three groups: (A) those who always support you; (B) those who always oppose you; and (C) the undecided, who almost always decide an election. A candidate needs to put some energy into reaching group A, but that energy must be transformed by those A folks into their taking actions. One should tend to ignore group B; you can never react to their provocations, only respond calmly. But most energy should be invested in reaching group C.

In order to reach group C, you must speak their language. You can't speak in French to a person who only understands German. You're wasting your time trying. Apply that simple rule to group C: you don't speak to them in the same language you do group A. And you have to take care that what you do say to group A, is not then misrepresented by group B to scare C. Think of this election campaign. Everything that happened falls neatly into these simple lessons.

[Robeson]

33. Thanks, and well needed...

...I have been pointing this out that thats how the conservatives came to power in the Republican Party. They started in the late 70's and early 80's by getting on school boards, became city aldermans, got on city councils. They found every local position they could find, and ran people for them. We have to get back to the grassroots. This is also one of the best checks against the national agenda the Bushinistas have. In fact, checking it on a local level may be the best stopgap with have.

[H2O Man]

35. Yes, I believe that I have responded on some

of the threads regarding this. It was the tactic that the entire republican party had been using since 1968; the extreme right wing began to entrench itself in the mid-1970s (post-Nixon) with this. By the time of Reagan, the religious right had become involved in all levels of political office. It allowed the Reagan years to occure.

Going back a bit further, we find even Brother Malcolm describing the goal of local community control as the essense of Black Nationalism. For people to control the schools their children attended; to have a voice in their neighborhood precincts; to have police officers who lived in the community; to have control of the local economy. These are only possible when you have political representation on a local level.

We aren't going to preserve the quality of our community life by waiting passively, like some bump on a log, waiting for some hero to come along in 2008 and run for president. We need to take control at the local level. Everything else will begin to fall into place after that.

[Robeson]

37. Couldn't agree more!

[KoKo]

38. I would rather not hang my hopes on Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi....

We have an emerging Progressive Party in the works. I will never give a penny to the Democratic Party Leadership again. As with this last year, I support only candidates I feel are progressive. Forget the Party Establishment. Three strikes and they are out. They should all be kicked out as soon as possible, imho. I don't care who they replace them with...it's their business. I'm with Progressives and will probably change my affiliation to Independent, just in cast the Progressives turn out to be "McAuliff" in sheep's clothes.

I've had enough of this.

[H2O Man]

42. Yes, I think you are right.

There is an emerging progressive party, including a progressive leadership. I'm convinced that the internet will allow for more decentralized power in the democratic party, which will allow for national leaders to be selected by the grass roots, rather than by isolated "power brokers." There should be no one in those positions based on family connections, wealth, or any other reason that short-changes the grassroots. I believe the days when this type of behavior was acceptable are long gone. Anyone who wants to assume positions of power that they have not earned needs to be long gone, too.

[democratreformed]

40. What an inspiring post!!

Thanks so much for this. It is so full of hope. It is so true. I sure hope we can do it.

[H2O Man]

43. Thank you.

Gandhi used to say that anxiety about the future is sheer atheism. I refuse to be anything less that confident and up-beat about what we can accomplish if we put our minds together.

[coeur_de_lion]

44. I just got home from an anti-war protest -- or actually a peace protest

It was the best thing I could have done to make myself feel better after this traumatic election.

I joined a group of about 25 people who stood on a well traveled corner of town, holding up peace and anti-war signs. We got lots of applause, thumbs up, and peace signs from the people going by. A few guys flipped us the bird from their cars but they were few and far between. Most people honked their horns and waved or flashed peace signs. They were happy we were there. It was an uplifting experience.

Based on what I saw tonight -- I do think you're right, H, about starting at the grass roots level. We can't expect John Kerry or any other democratic presidential contender to do this for us. We're going to have to do it for ourselves. We'll have to start small. It may take a long time. But the country is ripe for change. And we can do it.

Which reminds me of my favorite John Lennon quote:

"Produce your own dream. If you want to save Peru, go save Peru. It's quite possible to do anything, but not to put it on the leaders and the parking meters. Don't expect Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan or John Lennon or Yoko Ono or Bob Dylan or Jesus Christ to come and do it for you. You have to do it yourself. That's what the great masters and mistresses have been saying ever since time began. They can point the way, leave signposts and little instructions in various books that are now called holy and worshiped for the cover of the book and not for what it says, but the instructions are all there for all to see, have always been and always will be. There's nothing new under the sun. All the roads lead to Rome. And people cannot provide it for you. I can't wake you up. You can wake you up. I can't cure you. You can cure you."

Thanks for the umpteenth time for your inspirational post, my dear boy.

[H2O Man]

47. That is a great Lennon quote.

I think that Lennon should remain one of the symbols we use in presenting our case to the general public. I noted that the rabid Mary M. of the republican media machine made fun of Lennon on CNN's Crossfire. The democrats failed to respond.

[Zorra]

45. IMO, we all need to realize that democracy in any form is now over in

America.

We did not have a free, fair election. The party that did not permit us to have a free fair election now has more power than they did before.

WE NO LONGER LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY. IT IS OVER.

We need to focus on reclaiming our democracy immediately through direct action.

A general strike, mass boycott, mass protest, signs and banners everywhere, starting tomorrow.

We must contest this election now. Directly. Shut the country down and demand a new fair, transparent election with paper ballots, each ballot counted in front of a video camera by a member of each party.

I am afraid it is too late to define the party.

We have a one party ruled state, just like Germany had in the 30's. IMO, we need to face this reality and take the steps necessary to reclaim the democracy that the republicans have illicitly stolen through voter fraud.

They are never going to allow elections to take place with anything but inauditable electronic voting machines unless we force them to.

[H2O Man]

49. "a general strike, mass boycott, mass protest, signs and banners.."

These are all wonderful activities. They are part of democratic activities which can be used to educate the public, which is always a good thing. But these have always been used with a goal of allowing people the right to vote. We can define that right in several ways, but for the sake of this discussion, let's consider two: the right to vote in the presidential elections, and the right to vote at the local precinct or ward. The biggest voting unit (national) vs the smallest voting unit(precinct). Votes are made and counted at the local level. Take over the local level, which includes the control of the polls. When we exercise power at the local level, everything else will begin to fall into place. If we do not take control at the local level, we can never be in a position to exercise our full power at the other levels.

Strikes, boycotts, and mass protests have their place. In my opinion, (and I certainly am open to other's ideas) the single greatest need for a "protest" at this time is the war in Iraq. I believe that despite the so-called election results, the majority of Americans know it is wrong. It could give us an opportunity to address the "values" question. I would advocate that we have a march in Washington, DC and other select sites across the country. I would think that rather than carrying signs and chanting, that protesters consider a quiet protest. Thousands of silent people, sitting, kneeling, praying and/or meditating, being 100% peaceful. The media could not show clips that make protesters look like dangers to society. Allow select people such as Jesse Jackson to address the crowd. Gandhi force. King force. That would be the most effective demonstration of power we could possibly do.

[Zorra]

64. A well reasoned post.

I agree with you about your ideas on taking control at local levels. This will take time, planning, focus, discipline, and committment. And, I think, an understanding that this type of activity will be actively discouraged if not vehemently fought by a RW bent on, consciously and unconsciously, achieving a totalitarian fascist society.

IMO, the efficacy of simple mass protest is limited in these times. If the television and radio media were not almost completely owned by the forces of fascism, perhaps this would not be so. Protests will be ignored and spun as insignificant unless accompanied by direct sustained economic actions which affect every American and thereby makes America sit up and pay attention.

Yes, the war is a critical issue, and one which is already unpopular with, I believe, most Americans. Bu$h is right at this very moment viciously decimating the civilian population of Iraq in an effort to make the Iraqi Resistance submit. IMO, Bu$h feels that he now has a mandate to kill as many civilians and cause as much destruction as is necessary in order to bring the war to a conclusion. The constraints of having to worry about the people of the US bringing and end to his dictatorship are now gone.

Our very own American "Hitler" is now free to do whatever he wants to whomever he wants, and, realistically, no one can stop him unless a substantial segment of the industrialized nations of the world ally against him, and/or the people of America refuse to go to war for him.

It seems to me that Iraq and its people are going to be systematically decimated no matter what the cost, until their will is broken. At that point, (which may come relatively soon), there will be no more war to protest until Bu$h invades his next target.

The US is in the grip of an aggressive, malevolent, violent dictatorship which will soon become a repressive police state. There is an awful lot of money and power that has orchestrated the means and methods for allowing this dictatorship to illegitimately assume control, and they are not going to relinquish this control.

Our power, IMO, lies in complete and un-relenting non-cooperation.

Gandhi and Dr. King lived in different times, and recognized an effective course of action under their respective circumstances. Gandhi was faced with an occupier. Dr. King lived in a democracy which was ripe for change.

Our "adversary" has recognized the effectiveness of past methods such as those used by Gandhi and Dr. King, and understands how to effectively counteract these methods and render them somewhat ineffective.

We can no longer count on the media to cover protests.

Today, IMO, protest is a means of networking and achieving community and solidarity, and this is valuable within itself. But as far as being a significant and effective vehicle for concrete positive change, it will do little unless accompanied by sustained and focused economic, political, and social activity.

These activities can all be tied together and thereby made more effective when we engage in them with a spirit of support for one another in a macrocosm of democratic community.

[AgadorSparticus]

46. i absolutely agree. this is what howard dean suggests too.

the revolution will come bottom up.

[H2O Man]

50. Yes. Howard Dean understood

what most of the democratic candidates did not: the power of grassroots action. I am convinced that if it were not for Dean, the democratic leadership at the top would not have dared to challenge Bush. I think that the people who organized the Dean and Clark campaigns should be who we look to in our efforts to reorganize the democratic party at the grassroots level.

[coeur_de_lion]

51. Howard Dean

I didn't support him during the primaries, in fact I didn't even like him. BUT even Dean's detractors have to admit he did a wonderful thing for the Democratic party. He started a grassroots movement and showed us all how it could be done. I think we can look to him on the months and years ahead for leadership to help us do it again. We need to start now.

So H2O, what is our first step?

[H2O Man]

55. There are numerous options

that include: (1) lobbying very hard on the call for investigations into the computer fraud in Florida and Ohio; (2) lobbying the congress to investigate the Plame/Niger document forgeries/ neocon spy scandal(s); (3) begin to organize people on the local level, specifically to choose candidates and to continue voter registration.

It is important to remember that "freshmen" senators usually do not start off in leadership positions. Obama will not be able to produce at a level that will meet the expectations some have. We should find one or two senators with experience, and lobby extremely hard for a congressional action. Byrd and Kennedy come to mind. In the house, we need to look to Rangel and other minority leaders.

[kayell]

48. Thank you for this great post. nt

[rndmprsn]

52. right fucking on!

shadow their asses and follow them wherever they go...appoint shadow cabinet members to take them on in the media...start acting like an OPPOSITION PARTY AND NOT THE VICTIM PARTY.

we should also in tandem to this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2625044&mesg_id=2625044

peace

[H2O Man]

56. being the opposition party

beats the heck out of thinking 50 million people are the "losers"

[Me.]

54. My Thoughts On The Fifth Day

There is an emptiness in me, a void where hope used to be. It’s a strange feeling and I will need time to recover the loss of what was. Seeking to have my wounds balmed I have in these days, since the election, read thousands of words, the thoughts of others who are confused, angry, mad as hell, which is different than being angry, depressed sad and betrayed. They are right to feel this way for their very best hopes, thoughts and desires for themselves and our country were trampled on by the jackboots of those who would schemed and connived to leave a parched earth behind, bereft of truth, equality, kindness, caring and dignity.

These are very unquieting times, when people will vote against their best interests and vote to suppress the right of those who are their neighbors. Many a reference has been made this last week to civil war and the warning of Lincoln against corporations. He was right and we may yet meet, brother against brother, husband versus wife, daughter defying father, on another battlefield. But what that ground will be is yet to be determined,

I am listening to helicopters outside, the escorts for the runners in the marathon and everything seems normal. But those very same helicopters stormed across these very same skies on the morning of September 11th. It was a foreboding, worrying sound, a constant throughout the days and nights after. Very unsettling. Yet, with the sound of helicopters came a rising of hope. For once, this country was united, as was our country with the world, and it was so very heartening. Until it was squelched and we were divided, once again, by a nightmare vision of conquering the world.

Hope is important, for our wishes and dreams are what moves humans forward. And while it seems that the earthmovers have stolen in and plowed our hopes under, I do know this, humans are of the earth and the earth replenishes itself with each new season. Come spring there will be a new crop of hope

Our folks in Washington haven’t done right by us, then or now. I am not willing to compromise my rights away, so I will be viewing them and anyone of their ilk, who comes along, with a very sharp eye. And maybe that is the real lesson, now, and why this all happened, for the reasons everyone here have already stated. It’s up to us now to take our democracy back and grow it into something that is garden worthy and wondrous to see.

I’m going to be reading and listening the next couple of months, deciding what my course of action will be, for while I’m down, I ain’t out. I have decided, already, that economics will play a role, for in this country money talks, sings and hops around. So I will be paying off my debts and choosing wisely who I will buy from.

I don’t know what office you’ll be running for H. and while I wish it was sheriff so you could put all these bad boys in jail, those who vote for you will be the beneficiaries of an official they can trust. The rest of us will need to choose as wisely .

I am grateful for places like this and the others that exist,, where anyone can have their say, and others can listen for that too is a beginning…Words are such powerful tools.

[H2O Man]

57. I note that this is

the single longest post that my friend Me has contributed. The shock of the election has begun to wear off most DUers, and the need to organize our thoughts and take aim at the future is becoming more apparent. It's high time that the quiet folks speak up.

[coeur_de_lion]

68. Hello there, friend Me!

:hi:

Yes, this is your longest post so far! But a most welcome one, so well written, and obviously well thought-out. I particularly noted your comparison to the notion of a Civil War -- because that is exactly what this feels like. My own family is evenly divided, Republican to Democrat. We've had heated words many times in the last year. I'm grateful to have the folks on DU to turn to for comfort, because 1/2 my family have gone over to the dark side.

We're all feeling betrayed and abandoned. Along with that blow comes the knowledge that if there is going to be change in this country it had better be ourselves who do the changing. We were counting on John Kerry to do it for us and we can't do that anymore. Neither can we count on any other politician.

I wish I lived in NY so I could vote for H20 -- it would be so nice to vote for someone I knew was trustworthy.

I think we need to give ourselves a few days to get over the shock, and then we need to get busy with our letter-writing campaign.

H2O, I hope you will as usual act as a guide and maybe even start us off with a sample letter or two. I think I can express myself pretty well if I have something to start with. Right now I am not sure I could string two sentences together if I had to write to legislators. Too upset still. Writing letters is a good start -- I wonder what else we can do?

[H2O Man]

72. There are a number of people

who I trust are leading us in the right directon on this. When in doubt, follow Bev's lead.

[indigobusiness]

58. How about the "Real World" party? Where everyone should live.

I've been thinking about this for days, trying to come up with peace in it.

Maybe we can overcome the evil overtones of Cat Stevens and form the "Peace Train" party"?

[H2O Man]

59. Being a democrat doesn't need

to be restrictive. One can be a democrat, and belong to GreenPeace, the RiverKeepers, the ACLU, and any one of hundreds of other like-minded groups. The advantage of having both a right and left hand becomes apprarent during conflict.

[indigobusiness]

62. Sure, of course, the friction of opposition and difference

keeps the heat at a healthy temperature. Onesidedness is a recipe for staganation. The pendulum sucks when it swings so far it gets stuck for a time, but it always swings back, eventually.

[H2O Man]

65. Right!

One needs a large gene pool in order to not end up like the republican right.

[coeur_de_lion]

69. link to write to the Kerry Campaign, the DNC, and the GAO re: voter fraud

http://69.9.171.129/e-fraud.html

You can type in your own text, and it automatically sends an email to all three of them.

Kiped the link from mzmolly's thread in GD.

Sent my emails just now. Off to bed with me.
:boring:

[loudsue]

70. H2O_Man....thank you so much for this thread. I've had some troubling

thoughts about all this in the past few days....by "all this", I mean, the things you're talking about. I've been thinking those thoughts, as well, even though your way of saying things is so much more lucid than what my mind has been reeling with.

The idea that we are, indeed, The Opposition Party has been both very empowering and frightening for me these past few days. It is beyond obvious to me that the majority of the leaders of the Dem party are so high up on their self-made pedestals that they have no clue that the bottom -- their foundation (we, the people) has fallen out from under them.

WE DON'T NEED THEM! They aren't really there, and haven't been for over a decade now (and probably longer, if the truth was known).

We've been living in the cognition of "our Democracy" since birth (for us natives, anyway). We knew the Constitution and Bill of Rights from grade/high school, and we knew that we were a nation of LAWS... laws that were derived from, and supported by, that Constitution... the SAME laws applying to every citizen equally.

Even if some folks DID sometimes have some greater advantage due to color or positioning, we the people MOSTLY agreed that we would aim at the decent thing, and any deviation from that was immediately apparent, and enough of a cause for shame to be done in stealth.

We are no longer a nation of laws. Our Constitution has been irreparably destroyed (besides the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Act, many new laws have been "added" to Bills coming out of Congress that have been equally as insidious, but hardly noticed).

It is now apparent that there are SO MANY laws, that ANYTHING anybody does CAN NOW be against the law. That enables those with power to arrest someone without any legal repercussions: they can easily find something (ANYTHING) to charge that person for. What the Blacks and Mexicans (I grew up in Texas where Mexicans were the minority) have experienced throughout our history, is now true of every citizen... the people in power can FIND a way to imprison anybody they deem a threat.

Our President, our elected officials, our Supreme Court Justices, our armies... they flagrantly violate the laws of the Constitution (not to mention world courts), and allow those people who pay enough money into their coffers to do the same. Many of them don't even make much of an effort to hide the fact, and our President NEVER apologizes.

So.... there are a couple of hundred million people living in the United States that are actually living OUTSIDE of the "system" that has come to exist. Kind of adrift, or unconnected to the infrastructure we thought we knew. Thanks to a corrupt elections system, we have no say in what we thought was "our" government. And we certainly don't have access to the mass media to any significant degree.

On the one hand, it is liberating... like a blank canvas inviting some new colors and shapes. On the other hand, it's frightening, due to the addiction our government has to the fruit$ of our labor$, and their anticipated reaction to having that "fruit" withdrawn.

They will need more and more money to support their "habit", and we will have less and less as a result.

I admire your desire to run for office in your community. In a deeply red state, like where I live, there is a lot of "control" over how candidates, for any office, are portrayed, and every action is examined for its deviation from the "norm". (Even our Register of Deeds election had a NASTY battle between those with a conservative base, and those with more experience. The conservative won.)

I hope we can continue to operate within our system, and begin to make some headway across the nation. But I'm really having my doubts right now.

This is a new world, and it's NOT in order!

Thanks again for your wonderful posts. You're a remarkable man.

:kick::kick:

[H2O Man]

71. It's a strange time in history .....

I'm always amazed when I think of what we have witnessed and experienced in the past four decades. It certainly compares to any period in American history. Each time in the past when our nation faced a crisis, people summoned the inner strength to meet that challenge. We'll do it again.

There are "democrats" at the state and national level who have sold out. There's no polite way to say it. But the system is set up that we will never be able to address that situation until we address it on a local level.