If there is no chance to win 2008, I bid the country goodbye.

[coloradodem2005]

I may start looking into Canada seriously. Many here would say that I may as well go. Maybe you are right. Nobody seems to be concerned with doing the right thing anymore except us. Nobody seems to be concerned with the future of this country, except us.

It is just irritating. We lost 2004 and now we are talking about writing off 2008? We have given people the message that we are not serious. If we write off 2008, then we are confirming that we are not serious. And there won't be a 2012. Not for us. There will not be any future for this party. The U.S.A. will be a theocratic nation of one party.

[Obviousman]

1. we have more of a chance in 08 than in 12

its not easy to run against an incumbent as we learned this year. we should not give up 08 unless we have devastating midterms

[serryjw]

3. You have it BACKWARDS

So few incumants ever get a second term. In 2008 we are running against a well oiled machine on a 'level' playing field. If you think Hillary Or any other dem could beat Guiliani you need a mental health check up.

[Obviousman]

8. but wouldn't it be even harder

to beat rudy when he's up for re-election? if there's one thing the repubs have learned from this election its how to use power to keep power. also, look at the repubs who had cult folowings, ie w, reagan, and nixon, they were all given 2nd terms. personally, i thing guilianni would be more similar to them than george 1 and ford. 2008 and 2012 are gonna be hard, but i'd say '08 is easier

[serryjw]

10. There won't be a 2008 election

of a 2012..........If there are it will be more of the same..the entire country will have TT voting machines....Do you actually think we will ever have another legitimate election again...THEY get better and better with each election.

[Obviousman]

12. i don't want to get into an argument

but i think there are people working hard to expose this fraud. i haven't given up hope in democracy just yet. however, at the rate things are going, im becoming less and less hopeful

[serryjw]

13. Americans had no problem with 2000

Where is it written that SCOTUS had a right to do what they did?It's toolate for me to leave at 54. Between The new Monarch and Peak Oil my destiny is set and there is little I can do.

[phylny]

21. Giuliani has to be painted in a light that makes him unpalatable to

the red states. Make it personal, and make it relentless.

He's an adulterer. He cheated on his wife and children. He committed adultery. He was committing adultery while in office, just like Clinton.

Just like Clinton. He "pulled a Clinton." (I like Clinton, but remember we're trying to beat them over the head with what they say they hate about Democrats).

If he cheated on his wife, that poor lovely woman, and humiliated her in front of the whole city, what will he do to our nation? He must have very poor judgment.

His poor ex-wife Donna accused him of "open and notorious adultery." What kind of example does that give his son, Andrew. What kind of message is that for his daughter, Caroline?

Giuliani is from New York. He doesn't talk like us, he talks like he's from New York. What do New Yorkers know about what's important to you? (I'm a New Yorker, just playing devil's advocate).

All our hard-earned tax money is going to end up in the cities and it's going to go to New York. He wants to take money away from the people and give it to those rich New Yorkers. We in the plains states don't want to subsidize New Yorkers. New York is the town of big money and big spenders.

Fight fire with fire. Figure out what talking points will raise the hackles of the "values" folks and hammer early and often.

[AndyTiedye]

16. They Won't Run Guiliani. They'll Pick Somebody FAR Worse

They own the news. They own enough state governments and voting machinez
so they have no need to compromise. They could even run Gary Bauer
and "win" again.


     We Make Democracy DIE

[lizzieforkerry]

2. I think we should boycott the 08 because of all the fraud that happened

this time. They are going to steal it from us then we won't have a candidate and 55 million people will just stay home. We'll use the money we would have spent and start a Democratic Health Care System and they will look like the ones with no moral values, using all that money for ads and stuff when we are trying to help people.

[serryjw]

11. Personally...that is the best idea I have heard yet

ALL DEMS stay home and NOT vote. Why would I want to give credibility and legitimacy to this Bushit?

[AndyTiedye]

18. Boycotting the Election Would be the End of the Democratic Party

though it may be toast by then anyway.

[truthseeker1]

4. Hear, hear - my sentiments exactly

Already looking into Vancouver.
We may be making a Thanksgiving trip up there to check it out.

I'm all for staying to fight the good fight, but we at least need evidence there's a chance to win.

[MazeRat7]

5. People get what they deserve...

It may well be that this country has to fall into total disrepair under theocratic principles before the citizens rise up and admonish those principles for good. We have seen this throughout history. We have also seen that those civilizations that fail to heed that call are destined to wither and ultimately die.

This "movement" to the right is far bigger than just this single election. This has been coming for sometime and I am afraid it will be a very long time before the pendulum starts to swing the other way. It will swing, the question is not IF this will happen, but WHEN.

MZr7

[coloradodem2005]

6. If it takes a long time and things get more hopeless in the meantime...

...I don't want to suffer fools or their fate. It is not my fault and it shouldn't be my problem.

[serryjw]

15. Now if you leave for Canada may I go in your steamer trunk?

It would much appreciated...I'll even take a cab over to your house!

[AndyTiedye]

20. The Road to Theocracy is a One-Way Trip

When in history has a theocracy get overthrown by its own people?
I cannot think of a single instance, at least since the end of the
Dark Ages.

We have to stop the theocracy before it gets any further entrenched.
It may be too late already, but that is our only hope.

[Moderate Dem]

7. First, Giulliani won't get nominated...

Can you imagine Social Conservatives standing still for a pro-gay rights, pro-choice candidate? Never happen.

Actually, there may be a civil war in the Republican Party over issues like this.

But if you wanna leave...

See ya.

[coloradodem2005]

9. I don't want to leave if there is a chance of coming back soon.

But, if this turns into Germany in the 1930's and 40's, I don't want to deal with it. How do you know that Guilliani won't get nominated? He could move further to the right. Bush was supposedly a moderate governor. Now look what happened. Guiliani could do the same thing.

[truthseeker1]

22. A*hem, may I remind you of Ahhnuld?

"Can you imagine Social Conservatives standing still for a pro-gay rights, pro-choice candidate? Never happen."

It's already happened in Cal-ee-fornia and it'll happen again. They will run him in '08.

[Swamp Rat]

14. If that is the case, then there will be no safe place on Earth.

[IronLionZion]

17. Why don't you move to Ohio or Florida

so we can win them next time

[LibertyorDeath]

19. I understand why you say this but here is hope & there is a chance

We have to fight hard to help introduce this type of Electronic voting system in the USA (TruVote)

At a trade fair held recently here in Columbus, a wide range of companies seeking to fill that void demonstrated technologies that could easily and cheaply provide paper receipts for ballots. One such product, called TruVote, provides two separate voting receipts. The first is shown under plexiglass, and displays the choices made by a vote on the touch screen. This copy falls into a lockbox after the voter approves it. The second is provided to the voter. TruVote is already attracting fans, among them Brooks Thomas, Tennessee's Coordinator of Elections. "I've not seen anything that compares to TruVote validation system." Georgia's Assistant Secretary of State, Terrell L. Slayton, Jr., calls the device is the "perfect solution."


Start with Dem controlled States this will put major
pressure on the States that do not provide a paper trail.

We have to defeat the Repulican Controlled Electronic Voting Companies.

We have to there is no other way. They are totally fucking us.

OMG

I just googled TruVote & it looks like they murdered the inventor of the system already.

March 21, 2004
Inventor of "TruVote" Voting machine is Killed
Athan Gibbs, the inventor and outspoken advocate of a verified voting paper trail was killed when an 18 wheeler struck his Chevy Blazer and forced it over a highway retaining wall.

This tragedy comes as there is increased concern over the security (read: honesty) of competing voting machines made by Diebold Systems, a prominent Bush supporter.

http://civilliberty.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/853

We need to fight now more than every so many brave people have fought
and died so Democracy could flourish. My Grandfather & uncles to name but a few.

We have to fight this!!