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[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Pete:

The PM was not a caprice. 5 minutes. All I ask.

[blm]

9. I would recommend that as a good idea, Pete.

.

[Name removed]

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[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

24. Will resend.

[Jersey Devil]

2. So in other words he will do nothing about the allegations of fraud

Yeah, some fighter.

[Name removed]

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[Jersey Devil]

10. yes, I think you did say exactly that

I am still fairly new here but I get the impression others think you are someone fairly important who has inside information on the campaign and Kerry. If you are then you are being very cruel to come in here and tease and drop what they are interpreting as little hints that Kerry may actually do something.

I am very bitter that everyone's efforts for Kerry were just dropped like a hot rock because he could not take being labeled a sore loser and was worried about his image.

If he is going to do something and you know it, then say it. Otherwise stop getting people excited when there is no cause to get them excited. It is cruel and sadistic.

[Bryan]

58. Hear, hear

Even if we are very generous and accept for the moment that there really is a cunning plan at work here, then it's worth questioning the wisdom of the apparent strategy. I think severely demoralizing the base with a public headfake demonstrates a failure to recognize how long Dem loyalists have been running on nothing but hope.

If Kerry is going to mount some kind of challenge, he's going to need a lot of support that, frankly, may not be there. It is not hyperbole to say that the Democrats I know are so poleaxed that they would pass an examination for PTSD symptoms, and this virtual press blackout among upper-level Dems sure as shit isn't helping, let alone coded fluffery from campaign surrogates.

[LittleClarkie]

60. You are selling Kerry short

The evidence has to be solid as a rock. He as a former lawyer knows this. It's not fair to accuse him of worrying about his image.

There is a reason Kerry needs to remain politically viable. He will be of no use to us at all if he is marginalized. I don't need some romantic image of a martyr fighting until he goes down in heroic flames. I need someone who still has political power to wield for the next 4 years. That's not selfishness on Kerry's part, that's just the political reality.

The John Kerry I've come to know and love these past few months wouldn't stop fighting because he "can't take being labeled a sore loser and was worried about his image." I swear, sometimes we talk about him over here as if we were spouting RNC talking points. He cares, damn it. He cares.

Pete is saying that even if they can't get enough hard evidence together to contest the election (and I'm sure they know what that evidence has to look like better than us -- as in direct instead of circumstantial -- that Kerry will be fighting for the same people and the same issues he ran on in 2004. When Pete says that Kerry will "do something," he means that fight. He is not being cruel and sadistic. He is trying to keep you informed. Give the guy a freakin' break.

If Kerry and his team can do something about the election, they will. Otherwise, if that doesn't pan out, Kerry has no intention of fading into the background. He plans to be front and center as a critic of this administration.

I hope he does just that, even despite some Democrat tendancies to flush our most recent "failed candidates."

Sorry if I'm getting it wrong, PeteNYC. I don't mean to speak for you. But I also am getting sick and tired of watching us eat our own.

John Kerry is my candidate, and always will be. I wish people would trust more, and believe he is doing all he can, if behind the scenes. Like air, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.

[vetwife]

4. Bigger than a Kerry presidency......Much bigger !

[berner59]

17. Can we have just a vetwife group topic??

You give me such hope... How about a clue...is next week going to bring more happiness around here or are our stomachs ever going to get back to normal??

[emulatorloo]

5. Thanks Pete. . . .EOM

[cali]

6. I agree about the buyer's remorse

and I really, really hope Kerry does speak up. Unfortunately, I think he's got a couple of strikes against him. As someone brought up, on the prior thread, he could easily look like a sour grapes loser, and frankly, as a voice against the war, we really need someone who had the foresight to know that bush wasn't to be trusted. Having said that, Kerry's voice against the bush juggernaut is desparately needed.

[DancingBear]

7. If he REMOTELY suspects voter fraud, we need to hear him NOW

The coming weeks/months are not acceptable.

We are pouring our hearts and souls into proving what we believe is certain fraud on the part of Bush, and we need John F. Kerry right there with us.

If he is working on this as we speak (under cover), I stand corrected.

If not, please Pete, GET HIM THE MESSAGE.

We are not wrong.

Kerry won.

We know.

[Old and In the Way]

8. Thanks Pete.

I think it's incumbant for someone in Kerry's organization (you?) to keep us appraised of what's happening. The absolute worst thing that the Democrat leadership can do is leave the rank-and-file wondering what is going on. Not saying we need to broadcast tactics and /or strategy here...but we need to see a unified leadership countering this "mandate" thing.

Flat out calling it bullshit would be a good start.

[leftchick]

13. exactly right...

I have not watched any tv news or read a paper since Tuesday. I have caught a few headlines here on DU though. When I heard that smarmy twice un-elected puke said that I was infuriated!
Mandate my ass... :grr:

[PATRICK]

15. Can't he add the consequences?

Never mind the vote count. The country has been tested and sifted. The shit is immobilized at the top and I include democrats who have deceived us for four long years by not stopping but increasing fraud then marching us into the guns and then like Bonnie Prince Charlie, fleeing to their mansions.

The worst part is not that flight, but that pretension they are "still in the game". Hello, the game is no longer there. They are the Great Auk preening the last feathers, basking in the twilight of their demise.

The carrier pigeon never asked us to join it. All hail the graciousness of the carrier pigeon.

There is nothing but tyranny and anarchy in fact with the spotty official remnants in their Montaigne Towers pretending, pretending, they are the last parts of America.

[0007]

28. Excellent piece Patrick !

[SomthingsGotaGive]

36. That was fantastic.

Exactly what I thought of the Chris Heinz thread.

What a bunch of ass kissing, hero worship that was.

[Robeson]

21. Oh so right...

Most important comment on this thread is when you said:

"but we need to see a unified leadership countering this "mandate" thing.

Flat out calling it bullshit would be a good start."

If this mandate shit is not countered by the "opposition" party - and I am beginning to use that term lightly - then our party principles will have been abandoned. Thats why we need leadership.

[DoYouEverWonder]

54. Go see Elizabeth Edwards' thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2604461

I think you will find that someone in Kerry's organization is keeping us appraised.

[JohnKleeb]

11. Good to hear

I really if I get in to politics would be delighted to work for him. It's just such a shame this man couldn't be president. It would be great if we could prove fraud and Kerry would become president as a result but it seems so slim to happen, but stranger things have happened.

[lovedems]

12. Pete

You were one of the original Kerry supporters on DU and you proved yourself correct. Kerry was the best man to take on Bush. I might not have believed you way back then but I believe you now. I went from ABB to a true Kerry supporter. I trust him and I believe in him. He will continue to fight for OUR causes and I look forward to some tremendous leadership on his part in the next 4 years.

[PATRICK]

18. Lead?

He'd better define that for me. Or show it. We were led like lambs to the slaughter and told to forget why. Let's do it again with zero chances next time. The vote is gone. No hope without restoring that and it is all downhill from here by the plan.

[lovedems]

27. You might have been led like a lamb to the slaughter but I sure wasn't.

I am far from slaughtered and will fight on. I don't blame Kerry for the fact that more American's hate gays then they love democracy. With all due respect I don't share your defeatist attitude.

[Name removed]

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[SomthingsGotaGive]

37. what!!

well said?

No. What Patrick said was "well said".

And nothing about it was defeatist.

If Kerry is locked in some war room plotting and planning then he won't see these negative posts.

He might have people like you say to him....."Man the people are pissed..I hope whatever it is you guys are doing in there is big because my ass is on the line here."

If he has given up and allowed this to happen without a fight for whatever reason he needs to hear it.

[Star]

46. "My" ass is on the line????

"Man the people are pissed..I hope whatever it is you guys are doing in there is big because my(?????) ass is on the line here."

It is OUR asses that are on the line here. We gave everything we had to Kerry in order to help him win, and it looks like he has abandoned us. I HATE being abandoned.

If this is the best leadership he can provide, if he can't join us, then we need to forget him and all of them. We need to do it ourselves to be sure it gets done right next time.

I am SOOOO pissed.

[SomthingsGotaGive]

52. Agreed

I was referring to PeteNYC ....

I believe he should be forcing the issue with his Kerry connections if he is coming here to give us faith or soothe or anger.

It is OUR asses on the line.

[Star]

53. Yes, Something

I know you were referring to PeteNYC. I didn't mean to suggest you were saying "my" to mean you.

If anyone, like PeteNYC, says anything to Kerry, they need to tell him how upset WE are, how WE need him to tell us something, anything, come out of hiding for gawd sakes.

I know he must be feeling devastated, but so are WE. He told us he was our leader, and now he's nowhere to be found.

[Kimber Scott]

16. Kerry did turn his boat around on that river in Vietnam. He's not going

to leave us out here to drown. Whether fraud is proven, or not, I for one, will soldier on.

[vetwife]

19. Pete are you checking out Guy James today?

[RBHam]

20. Does kerry have any balls left?

"Once the minority of House and Senate are comfortable in their minority status, they will have no problem socializing with the Republicans. Any farmer will tell you that certain animals run around and are unpleasant, but when they've been fixed, then they are happy and sedate. They are contented and cheerful. They don't go around peeing on the furniture and such."

- Grover Norquist

Well? When is he going to take this son of a bitch apart?

or is he just going to take it?

[missouri dem]

39. I will have your back. Where is the leadership.?

Every vote counts. WHEN? After we corinate the chimp? If Kerry is going tom stand up like a man now is the time.

[Pastiche423]

22. "Kerry will soldier on "

WTF does that mean?

Kerry has done squat, well except QUIT.

Is that what you believe soldiers do?

[Jersey Devil]

26. It means expect another string with cryptic messages

Is Pete an insider from the campaign? If so, why would he come here to tease the shit out of those who are hoping that an investigation of fraud might go somewhere when he won't say that it will?

[BeFree]

29. Playing Devil's advocate here

I could have written what PeteNYC wrote, hell, any of us could.

I had high hopes when I clicked this thread. Oh well, it is up to us, the people to fix this wrong. Kerry has done an awful lot and one man can't do it all, but he sure could help. Maybe, if we get the ball rolling he comes back from his deserved rest?

[John Q. Citizen]

23. What do you see in the realm of

insuring fair and fraud free elections?

I supported Kerry 100% I liked him as a candidate and wasn't an AAB voter.

This fraud impression is 1000 times more devestating to Kerry and to all America than the Swift Boat Vets could ever be.

Do you think he will sit back and hope it goes away or will he take the bull by the horns and address the issue in a timely fashion?

If there was significant fraud, then why would America have a major case of buyers remorse?

If the Democrats don't address insuring fair open and transparent elections then I am done with them, after a lifetime of support, voleentering, and voting, - forever.

And you can take that to the bank!

[Only Me]

25. I have faith in John Kerry. Thank U 4 your positive posts here. n/t

[Name removed]

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[deadparrot]

31. Thanks for this.

Kerry is NOT a friend of the Bush administration. Remember the private "crooks" moment last spring? He's not a plant, people. The Bush campaign has slaughtered John Kerry's image, in Viet Nam, in his anti-war activities, his record in the Senate...the list goes on and on.

Kerry is upset. He's probably going through a tough period right now. Let's give him a little time to recover, and then see where we are. I still have faith in the guy. I disagree with him on some issues, yes, but I still think he's an honorable man.

Whatever happened in this election, whoever won, there are still WAY too many people voting for *.

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. The next four years?

I hope that isn't saying the cabal will be in office. :( The thought nauseates me. :puke:

[seraph]

34. Thanks Pete, but it would help if we had some national coordination.

nt.

[Cerridwen]

35. Hi again. Thanks for the update...again. And then, in reference

to your post, there were those of us who understood what you were saying in your original post.

Thanks for keeping us as in the loop as possible.

[robbedvoter]

38. Next 4 years? This is like a W promise: "From now on, I'll preznit good"

I am supposed to believe him because?
Why did he allow Bushco to get away with stealing another election?
Why is he allowing Bushco to gloat that he has majority and "values" is the thing?
When is the "loud and clear" phase begin

[robbedvoter]

40. Mike Papantonio said on Air America that he was recalled from the tarmac -

en route to Ohio , election night - because "some elements in the party thought we'd look like crybabies"
This was in Boston Globe on Nove 4:

It was Cahill who shared the (not good) news..to the nominee who was working off of five hours of sleep...And while a team of lawyers pressed to go to court on Ohio at 8 am to challenge the state's vote-counting procedures, Cahill said, KERRY DID NOT SEE THE POINT.

'He immediately just decided that in order to go forward in a time of war, an election lawsuit was not something that he wanted to put the country through' Cahill said."

So, now that the GOP can abolish the filibuster rule any time, or make it obsolete by stealing 5 more seats in 2006, how exactly will Kerry "soldier on"

[Robeson]

42. Bingo

"So, now that the GOP can abolish the filibuster rule any time, or make it obsolete by stealing 5 more seats in 2006, how exactly will Kerry "soldier on"

Thats the 6 million dollar question!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

50. Link?

Which show on Air America?

[Pobeka]

41. I'm willing to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt until Dec 12.

If there is solid evidence of voter fraud by then, and Kerry lies down, I'm not gonna be happy about it.

If there is not solid evidence (meaning a pretty clear win in the case of a court challenge), and Kerry lies down, I'll respect him because the media would paint him as a whiner, discredit him. A discredited Sen Kerry is less useful than a credible Sen Kerry. I understand strategy, I understand the media is not on Kerry's side, I would understand and applaud this position.

If, there is solid evidence of voter fraud, and Kerry takes it on, and wins, then that is a grand slam home run with all bases loaded like we've never seen before. Not only would we get president Kerry, but the Bush cabal would be shown for who they truly are.

Godspeed to Sen Kerry in the meantime. I'll keep fighting for him too.

[LittleClarkie]

61. That's reasonable -- plus what we see as solid evidence

might not hold up in court. I wouldn't mind a full explanation from the lawyers when the time comes regarding what would fly and what wouldn't. What is solid evidence to the court vs. what would be seen as circumstancial or hearsay. It MUST hold up in court or it is worthless and Kerry is dead in the water.

And I love him now too much to see him thrown to the wolves. He has captured my heart. I trust that he will do what he can.

Meanwhile it still feels like somebody died. I didn't just want Bush gone. I really, REALLY wanted Pres. Kerry. We were so sure. We were so DAMN sure this was going to happen. At least I was. I'm still in mourning for what should be happening right now. He would have been a magnificent president. I hope he still can. If not now, then 4 years from now.

Meanwhile I too will keep soldiering on. I have his back. I think I always will.

[Jersey Devil]

43. So when is the sonofabitch going to throw us a crumb?

What horseshit! He has gone fishing and left us to dangle in the wind

[DoYouEverWonder]

55. See my post above

If you're looking for a crumb.

[KittyWampus]

44. This Democracy Won't Endure 4 More Years Of Bush

or GOP domination.

Election fraud was OBVIOUSLY Rove's plan but whenever someone mentined it here I'd post "Kerry won't LET THEM, he has a plan".

If the Democratic Party had no plan to deal with the Fraud, then they are incompetent and/or complicit.

[clover]

45. dear pete: the question for me and my circle of family and friends

is not whether we are willing to do our part in exposing the truth--we have more than enough energy for that--but the question is "what to do"" and for that we turn to the democratic party leadership.

[missouri dem]

47. exactly and where is the leadership?

I want a fight and and a party that will stand with me. Enough of this we must unite the country horseshit. If we let these criminals steal another election I will never support the democratic party and I have been one all of my life.

[KoKo]

51. We don't see leadership from our "leaders." Reid is taking over for

Daschle (the ineffective "duo) and we've heard nothing to thank us for our four years of time and months of walking streets and activism to get Kerry elected. He gave an acceptance speech with gave thanks and was a thoughtful kind farewell..but this just wasn't any old election where the hero fades off into the night back to his own life in the Senate and we here who "exposed ourselves as Democrats, in areas of the country where it loses us business and contacts, are left having to deal with LOSER LIBERAL ONCE AGAIN...from the taunting Repuglicans.

Kerry/Edwards have not dealt with what we here on the ground had to deal with. Especially those of us in the Fundie States. It's not like NYC and Massachusetts out there for many of us, Pete.

We now feel totally cut off. Howard Dean did speak to us personally. And he's been long gone as a candidate but has never stopped working for Democracy.

Thanks for your hard work. But, some of us feel left hanging out to dry with no changes heard about firing McAuliff and the rest of the hacks who've lost us three elections. We are going to start to sound like Bush who won't let anyone go..if something isn't done to change leadership. Doesn't have to be done know when the RW Pundits will trash and poke fun...but before the Inauguration or shortly thereafter would be a start.

Anyway thanks. I hope you all appreciate what we tried to do here...against really bad odds, with little help.

[txindy]

48. I believe you, Pete

I believe in John Kerry, too. We've still got his back here.

Thanks for saying all you're able. :hi:

[Bread and Circus]

49. Sorry, I've lost faith in Kerry and the current Dem leadership/politicos

They got their last click out of Junior.

[info being]

56. I'll believe it when I see it. I'll support him when he deserves it.

[AgadorSparticus]

57. i wish i could say that your post comforts me, but it doesn't. not in the

least. with a solid house and senate going repuke, a media so far up bush's ass that war crimes are parlayed into frat pranks, and a supreme court that goes hunting with FUCheney and thinks it's hunky dorey.

ha! i'm not holding my breath that Dems are going to hold anyone responsible for anything. especially when no one is stepping up to hold anyone accountable for the farce of an election we just witnessed. and how will they hold anyone accountable? who will give them that voice? the media? we are back to square one.

Maybe it's the anger portion of my grieving process, but I am beginning to see the beauty in throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just start over. I would have been happy with just even a few grunts of something. but we got nothing. not one iota of questioning. We conceded before bush could pass out into his drunken stupor, for god's sakes. And how wrong is THAT? Why couldn't we just hold out until the dipshit passed out? It wouldn't have taken long. i'm kidding about that. but i'm still disgusted....

[Garbo 2004]

59. Yes Kerry got the support of millions but will he retain it?

His actions now and in the near future may well determine whether he does or not. Ditto for the Dem Party leadership, such as it is.

It's not politics as usual this time for many of us, although I think it might be for many if not most of the professional pols. For many of us it's not about who's in, who's out or party politics and loyalties. It's about the Constitution, separation of powers, checks and balances and the right of a free people to be heard without fear of reprisal and intimidation, in both speech and in having one's vote counted correctly.

I would like to believe that in the next four years people will hold Bush accountable for every fuck up. (How much better it would be of course, if we were not facing another four years of this junta that so far has escaped such accountability.) But to the extent that many Dems in Congress enabled Bush in the last four years to get to where we are now, I'm not going to take on faith that they now will exhibit far more moral courage than they did as a whole in the past.

Unless they do, don't necessarily expect that the next time the people will turn out for them, whether it's the volunteers on the ground or the voters who stood in line for hours just to cast their ballots and now wonder if it was all for naught.

Maybe it's time for us not to just hold the Administration accountable but the Dems in Congress as well. People will go to the mat for those who will fight for us. Not for those who rollover and play the game so they can still enjoy their perks of office.

People are angry. They haven't forgotten 2000 and they will not forget 2004 and the last four years. Will the party "leadership" rise to the challenge? Or beome irrelevant not only to the Republican majority in Congress but to their own constituencies as well?