Today I reversed my position on Guns

[burythehatchet]

I have never in my life touched a firearm. Today I have arrived at the conclusion, at the age of 44, that the second amendment serves a very valuable purpose.

[NYC Liberal]

1. What was your position before?

Did you favor taking away all guns?

[burythehatchet]

4. No

my position was that people should have the right to own guns, as long as they were registered and facilities were available for people to store them in a secure location. Personally, I was absolutely repulsed by guns.

[Peak_Oil]

70. Guns are good things to have.

Get yourself a couple and head to the range. Practice, practice, practice. Marital artists practice 1-3 hours 2-3 times per week to maintain proficiency.

If you plan on owning guns, make sure to budget for continuous trips to the range. .22's are great for practice, and can be had for a song. Rounds are cheap for .22's as well. Shotguns are pretty cheap to buy and feed as well.

[Dogmudgeon]

74. Love that typo!

Hate as I do to be a spelling prig, I love the typo you made:

Marital artists practice 1-3 hours 2-3 times per week to maintain proficiency.

I never thought I'd get as big a laugh out of a typo as I did just now!

Thanks!

--bkl
Occupation: A**hole

[rucky]

2. you could always dig up that hatchet. n/t

[Gyre]

3. My advice is to not advertise your political views

when you go for your shooting lessons, or to the range in general. Most gun-lovers are freepers.

Gyre

[Columbia]

5. Not true

"Most gun-lovers are freepers."

The freepers are just the loud-mouths.

[gordianot]

83. I spend a lot of time at Shooting ranges.

No they are NRA Pukes and could be convinced to become Democrats if allowed to have their assault rifles and other hardware. They do go over board on gun access. Most self respecting freepers would never touch a gun. Actually the NRA pukes are a threat in the midst of Freepers. The NRA pukes want unlimited second amendment rights. I say let them have their guns. Also let them police their own ranks of unscrupulous sellers, something could be worked out.

The key to this for them, this is a constitutional and political issue. Those of us who believe or have a reliance on the Constitution need to unite.

[burythehatchet]

6. 10-4

[Pepperbelly]

7. Shotguns are the very best thing to have, IMO.

They are too clunky for kids to even WANT to play with them and they present awesome firepower in clowe confines. How old are your kiddos, BTW.

[burythehatchet]

8. the boys are 6 and 17

Their safety is always paramount.

[Pepperbelly]

10. As a southerner and a progressive and a gun-owner ...

with my kids, I made a very serious demonstration to them of the guns when they were reletively small ... 8 or so. I took them with me to shoot. One of my sons liked it, my other son and daughter did not. But they all shot a bit.

Now, of course, they are grown, but I always let them know how deadly serious the guns are, I impressed on them that my guns were ALWAYS loaded and were not something to play with which they believed because they had been shooting, and when they were of age, I bought my son who liked shooting a Remington .22 auto for plinking targets. I made sure they understood and trusted their native intelligence and personal responsibility.

We never had an accident and I know that many here will disagree with my approach but I have what I think are solid reasons for this approach.

I never had one of them fool with my guns.

[burythehatchet]

12. sound advice

I will heed it.

[formernaderite]

43. I've always found gun owners to be the most responsible..

...and their kids have the utmost respect for what a firearm can do. Yeah...unfortunately the democrats thought gun control was a great political hot button. I'm glad the tide is turning.

[Spiffarino]

49. Lovin' my new Mossberg 500

Went out and shot skeet for the first time in years, and the first time with my own 12-gauge. It was exhilarating, fun, and - except for the sore shoulder - very therapeutic. I can't wait to go again.

Listen up, folks. Gun ownership may not be for everyone, but it's something to think about. This democracy isn't going to take care of itself. Our current rulership is proving that true more and more every day. We need to be thinking about why the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment into the Bill of Rights.

It wasn't so freepers could own AKs. It's so ordinary people - that's us, DUers - would not have to suffer under the thumb of a tyrant. That includes those who would steal elections, or even if elected fairly, would turn against the needs and desires of the people.

[keopeli]

9. Amen. Truthfully, this is one of our last liberties...a gift from Repubs

Everyone should buy a gun. I know it gives money to gunmakers, but so be it. We live in a gun-toting country and, those of us foolish enough to renounce guns are vulnerable to their power.

As the country is no longer democratic, everyone should examine protecting their own interests locally, including arming yourselves and refraining from crossing the border into Jesusland (if you live outside that area). If you live in Jesusland, and you don't have a gun, you're just suicidal.

When I lived in Texas, I was held up at a bank by a man with a gun and almost killed. My cousin had his eye put out by a gun. Three kids in my church (over the years) killed themselves with guns, both on purpose and on accident. I was put in jail because I was eating in the same restaurant where a drug dealer pulled a gun on a guy (released later and told "sorry").

If you disapprove of guns, so do I. But, I also live in reality, and I want to KEEP living until I die of natural causes.

If everyone at DU owned a gun, the political landscape of this country would shift dramatically.

One more note. If you are gay, like me, and you don't want to buy a gun, then I highly suggest moving to another part of the world. Believe it or not, there are places that believe gay people are human beings.

Citizen At Large

[burythehatchet]

11. I live is Jesusland

and if I have to stay (for the kids) I think I better consider my options

[AndyTiedye]

56. What's it Good For?

> Everyone should buy a gun.

I'm not sure that's a good idea. A lot of us are lousy shots.
Stray bullets could become a real problem. (In some neighborhoods,
they already ARE).

> those of us foolish enough to renounce guns are vulnerable to their power.

Owning one usually doesn't change that. By the time you know the
bad guy *is* the bad guy, he's probably got his gun pointed at you.

> refraining from crossing the border into Jesusland

We call it flyover country for a reason.

> If you live in Jesusland, and you don't have a gun, you're just suicidal.

The examples you cite below don't exactly make your case:

> When I lived in Texas, I was held up at a bank by a man with a gun and almost killed.

Would having a gun of your own have helped at all? Or would the
robber have gotten your gun too?

> My cousin had his eye put out by a gun. Three kids in my church
> (over the years) killed themselves with guns, both on purpose and on > accident.

Having kids may be the best reason NOT to own guns. So many kids
are injured or killed playing with guns. I would certainly implore
anybody who does take your advice to make damn sure their kids can't
get to them unless they are supervised.

> I was put in jail because I was eating in the same restaurant where
> a drug dealer pulled a gun on a guy (released later and told "sorry").

Having a gun then would have only caused you more trouble with the police.

> If you disapprove of guns, so do I.

I don't like them. I don't advocate banning them though.

> But, I also live in reality,

I live up in the clouds, but I have to venture into reality from time to time.

> and I want to KEEP living until I die of natural causes.

I have the same preference. I don't see a gun improving my odds right now.

> If everyone at DU owned a gun, the political landscape of this
> country would shift dramatically.

How?

> One more note. If you are gay, like me, and you don't want to buy a
> gun, then I highly suggest moving to another part of the world.

I'm not, so I'm probably not qualified to comment.
I suppose a gun would deter gay-bashers.

> Believe it or not, there are places that believe gay people are human beings.

The very blue state of California is one of them!


Ride the Music

AndyTiedye

[immoderate]

84. Child gun casualties are overblown.

More kids die by drowning in buckets than are killed by guns. Many more die by choking on hot dogs.

I feel that in a free country, no one has the right to tell a citizen that he/she can't own a gun.

--IMM

[AndyTiedye]

95. I Don't Think We Really Disagree On This

> I feel that in a free country, no one has the right to tell a citizen > that he/she can't own a gun.

A *parent* has the right and responsibility to keep guns away from
his/her *children* until they are mature enough to handle them safely.

I cited the presence of children in the home as a reason why one
might choose not to own firearms.

My post was not advocating any form of gun control. Just common sense
on the part of gun owners.

[Cozmosis]

61. I live on the border

Better be no ruffians...

[iverglas]

64. what the fuck?

When I lived in Texas, I was held up at a bank by a man with a gun and almost killed. My cousin had his eye put out by a gun. Three kids in my church (over the years) killed themselves with guns, both on purpose and on accident. I was put in jail because I was eating in the same restaurant where a drug dealer pulled a gun on a guy (released later and told "sorry").

Let's take these in order.

Held up by a man with a gun ... and your having a gun (conveniently stowed about your person, I assume) would have prevented this ... how? Are most people who use firearms to commit crimes really stupid enough to let their victims get the draw on them?

Cousin had an eye put out by a gun ... and this is an argument for harbouring firearms? Can you describe exactly how your cousin having a firearm (again, conveniently stowed about his person? and he was how old?) would have prevented this?

Three kids killed themselves with guns, both on purpose and accidentally. I see ... and if someone else had had a firearm (conveniently stowed ...), they could have prevented this by ... shooting the kids before they shot themselves?

What earthly idiocy is this?

That last one, that's just impossibly weird. Having a firearm conveniently stowed about one's person when someone else pulled a firearm out in public would have got one ... not arrested?

If you disapprove of guns, so do I. But, I also live in reality, ...

I'm afraid that the evidence isn't actually supporting that statement so far.

Unless you're saying that despite all of the tragedies and inconveniences you describe -- which would not have occurred had there been no firearm present in the situation -- you still advocate possessing firearms and, presumably, toting them around.

Hmm. Nope, still missing some evidence ...

[EstimatedProphet]

13. Yes it does

and our situation now is exactly what the 2nd amendment was written for.
There is noting wrong with responsible gun ownership. It's the irresponsible gun ownership that causes the problems.

[freetobegay]

14. The framers of the Constitution were very smart.

[Cyrix]

17. I believe this is BS

I would like to see conclusive evidence the 2nd amendment was passed SPECIFICALLY for the reason of allowing the masses to overthrow the government. To date I have seen ZERO conclusive evidence of this.

It seems the people that most spread this are drunk right wingers who sit around in their garage with guns talking about how much they need to take down Clinton or whatever other democrat may be in office.

[freetobegay]

20. My evidence would be

"minute men". Know your history!

[keopeli]

29. It doesn't matter WHY. What matters is that this is is today's reality.

[Spiffarino]

46. James Madison in Federalist No. 46 wrote:

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments,to which the people are attached, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.

Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.

[Spiffarino]

47. Alexander Hamilton, from the Federalist Papers #28:

If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual State.

In a single State, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.

[Cleita]

15. No one needs guns in a democratic society, however,

when that society becomes extreme and anti-democratic, then everyone needs one. Get one now, because mark my words, they will be outlawed. No fascist government wants an armed populace.

[Columbia]

16. Why does no one need a gun in a democratic society?

[Cyrix]

18. Probably because

the idea of democracy is to solve issues in a manner OTHER than shooting your opposition.

[Massacure]

23. But guns also keep the fascist away.

To be frank, shooting ourselves is a lot less of a problem than trying to overthrow the government with sticks and stones.

[Cyrix]

25. Sticks and stones

Is exactly what you would be using. If you think any weapons a civilian can (legally) obtain are ANY match for what the military has available then you are grossly uninformed.

Besides, what good are having weapons when (supposedly) 50+% of the population WANTS to be under fascist rule?

[Massacure]

28. You have a much better chance with weapons than sticks though.

[Spiffarino]

92. The Iraqis are doing a pretty good job

...of keeping the US military at bay with small arms and homemade bombs.

Our sons and daughters are being killed every day. It's being done by lightly armed militias, and all because our president is a fucking idiot who thinks it's all skittles and beer to take over a country that didn't attack us.

This is not about who has the biggest weapons; it is about who has the strongest will. We must fight the system peacefully, but if that fails we will have to muster a lot of courage for the days ahead.

[Flammable Materials]

32. If we could always solve our problems without shooting other people ...

... we wouldn't need a military.

I say if your enemy is a fascist, and the fascist is going to arm himself, then what's the point in putting yourself at a disadvantage?

[Cleita]

22. In a democratic society we shouldn't have to live in fear.

It is idealistic, but this is what we strive for.

[Columbia]

27. In a society without fear

Why would you be afraid of your neighbor having a gun?

[Cleita]

31. Why would he need one?

I'm not talking about hunting and rural communities where guns are a necessity but having had a few nutty neighbors in the city, I would have been happy to know that they didn't have firing type weapons.

[Columbia]

62. Why should it be prohibited?

If this utopia was free of crime there would no reason to fear misuse of firearms.

[keopeli]

30. We don't live in a democratic society! Why can't you see this?!

[PatsFan2004]

48. Good question!

Waiting unarmed in your home for the police to arrive while someone is ransacking your home can be very scary.

In Georgia, I believe, there is a town that required every home to have a gun except for conscientious objectors. They have a non-existent crime rate now. Another "progressive" town decided to oppose this very idea, I think it was in Illinois, by advertising that their town was completely gun-free with signs. You can guess what happened. Those signs did not stay up very long.

Personally, I do not own a gun, but I always carry a nice Benchmade folding knife for utility work. In a pinch, it serves as a tactical folder.

[burythehatchet]

55. I used to live in that Georgia town, Kennesaw

The "non-existent crime rate" you site is dubious. I lived there for 7 years and there was a typical level of criminal activity.

[PatsFan2004]

77. That's interesting to know.

The media tends to report that the Kennesaw crime rate is very low especially compared to the cities in Georgia. Where I am in MA, we have murders and burglaries quite regularly and very few guns.

That reminds me of that divisive question of any correlation between gun ownership and the crime rate.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. Strange days, liberals arming themselves. Got my shotgun.

Oddly, about a week ago I was thinking maybe I should buy some more 00 buckshot, just in case Bush won and things got weird all of a sudden. We might not need to arm ourselves to the teeth right away, but who knows? And won't it be fun to watch the freepers tie their little heads in knots trying to argue that the Second Amendment applies only to them?

[Pepperbelly]

24. I favor #4,,,

:D

[69KV]

90. "freepers...argue that the Second Amendment applies only to them"

Sad to say, that's *exactly* what the Freeper position on guns is. They want gun rights for white male conservatives only.

Why else would the NRA, a supposed gun rights group, promote such anti-gun-rights abominations as "Project Exile"? The answer of course is Exile targets gun rights in mostly minority communities.

From 1934 to 1968 there were no new gun control laws to speak of. The next gun control law to be passed was one of the most significant and far-reaching. It was promoted by conservatives, passed by the state of California and signed by Ronald Reagan. That state law became the catalyst for the new federal gun control law passed later that year.

And why would Ronnie-the-fascist-Reagan want a new gun control law?

There was one big reason: The Black Panther Party in Oakland. African-Americans were arming themselves for self-defense.

"But...but...but...gun rights are supposed to be for *whites*! Conservative, flag-thumping, bible-thumping whites! Why, we cannot let these (the n-word) have guns! What's next, are the dope smoking hippies going to buy guns too? The homosexuals? The draft dodgers? Women? The (gasp!) liberals are going to have guns?!"

That's right. Liberals with guns. Gays with guns. African-Americans with guns. Women with guns. Tree hugging radical environmentalists with guns. Pot smokers with guns. Hippies with guns. Draft dodgers with guns.

That is right wing America's worst nightmare.

[Spiffarino]

93. At the risk of seeming rude...

FUCKIN' A!!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. I favor a very LIBERAL interpretation of the 2nd Amendment

Gun ownership is essential to anyone who fears tyranny and especially the rise of fascism.

[sandnsea]

26. Gun responsibility

Keep them locked up, preferably in a safe. They really should be unloaded unless you honestly live in a very high crime neighborhood. Most people who own guns for "protection" live in areas where they're never likely to be a victim of a crime. But learning to use a gun in these times is probably not a bad idea. We still don't need assault rifles flooding the cities, not working out so well in Iraq. And I'll always believe the NRA created the whole gun hysteria because they are first and foremost a gun lobby for the gun industry.

[slackmaster]

82. Assault rifles - WTF are you talking about?

Nobody is talking about repealing the National Firearms Act.

[Spiffarino]

94. You're right about the NRA

...being a shill for the gun industry.

But they really don't want everyone owning guns. Another poster put it best...they want white, male conservative Republicans to own guns. They definitely do not want liberals, lefties, and environmentalists to own them. This scares them shitless.

[DuaneBidoux]

33. I've never had a problem with people owning registered firearms

Assault weapons? Well then why not Bazookas and missle launchers? I'm beginning to rethink my stance on owning a gun myself in the face of what seems an attempt to take over the government by Rethugs.

[prodigal_green]

37. I hear you can get shoulder-fired missiles on the black market

cheap. About 4,000 of them have been reported missing in Iraq. Up from previous estimate of 2,000.

[Moderate Dem]

34. I like guns...

The only people I worry about are the ones that need to buy a gun RIGHT NOW!!!!!!

That's why I also like waiting periods.

[Ladyhawk]

35. Just don't reverse the way you hold your gun and you'll be OK. :) nt

[LiberalFighter]

85. Shouldn't the instructions for freepers be...

While holding gun with finger on trigger look into the barrel for any impediment. Clear impediment by squeezing trigger.

[Deja Q]

36. It's tempting to think about gun ownership,

but I can't even begin to draw fast, yet alone hold a steady aim.

I will hope I don't get into the position where self-defense is necessary.

[Spiffarino]

89. That's what shotguns are for, Hypno

They're like that camera commercial...just point and shoot!

[Padraig18]

38. I've been armed since my 18th birthday.

Good for you!

:thumbsup:

[lectrobyte]

39. Can I ask, what changed your mind?

I'm personally pretty conflicted about guns, I wished I lived in a society where I didn't feel the need to have one, but having been through an attempted burglary or two, I now own a shotgun.

[rucky]

40. I guess you could say we've all been through a burglary. n/t

[burythehatchet]

41. My mind is changed because I live in Jesusland

I am a foreign born person (India), though naturalized since 1976
I grew up in New York, a yankee
amd I feel that we who do not agree with our fearess leader will be physically harmed.

[drunkdriver-in-chief]

42. I'm gonna buy an SUV for the same reason

Next time i see some idiot with 10 flags on his car, i'll do a laura bush on him.

[Fire Bush]

44. I'm more into knives myself.

I'm thinking about getting and learning to use a Karambit. It's an ancient Philippine fighting knife with a blade shaped like a claw. It's absolutely devastating in the hands of a skilled user.

It's no match to someone with a gun but I just don't think I could handle carrying a loaded gun around with me.

Do remember one thing D.U. gun owners... If you are not prepared to kill you're attacker, do yourself and your loved ones a favor and think about some other less lethal form of defense.

[Fire Bush]

45. Oh, and I just bought one of these...

Benchmade Skirmish. Also known as the Pocket Machete. :-)

[PatsFan2004]

51. Benchmade makes great quality knives.

I love their tactical folders especially the Axis lock series.

[drunkdriver-in-chief]

63. I've never heard of a karambit

But it sounds like a Kukri knife which is a devestating weapon. I own several kuks myself. The blade is around 15" long and has a 30 degree angle in the middle. When you hold it in your hand, it just begs you to chop something.

[Fire Bush]

72. Yowza!!

A Karambit typically only has a 2 to 2.5 inch blade.

http://karambit.com/

[Cats Against Frist]

80. Why does that girl have to be posing all "sexy-like" with the knife

Liberals need to take over the gun and knife trade -- fast. That's some really creepy imagery, IMHO. There are so many things wrong with that, on so many levels.

[davsand]

78. Don't pull ANY weapon unless you are willing to use it.

I don't care WHAT it is you don't pull it unless you are willing to use it. Anything less may get you killed or at least get said weapon used on you...

Something a lot of people seem to forget about carrying knives is that it is "up close" work to use one. If you carry a knife for protection, you are gonna have to get within arms' length of whoever is coming after you. I'll grant you, nobody ever got shot by mistake with a knife, but unless you know what you are doing with one it can be VERY dangerous.

With a gun, at least you can maintain some distance from your attacker, but you really have got to carry that gun on you--not in a purse or anyplace else that you can't reach and open in a split second. Most attackers are not going to give you much warning to dig it out of your purse or backpack. You also have that entire "conceal and carry" issue to deal with as well...

Frankly, I'd suggest that most folks get a shotgun for home defense, but leave the gun at home when out and around. Pepperbelly is dead on when he talks upthread about the stopping power and the nice spread on a shotgun. That really is ideal for the folks who don't want to go to the range regularly. Plus, given the spread on a shotgun, even in a stress situation, you are less likely to shoot and miss.

Study martial arts. Study personal defense and prevention. Learn the art of mental preparedness and automatic response. Seems to me that is gonna do a whole lot more than any kind of weapon to keep you alive in an emergency away from home.

Just my two cents worth for the average folks...


Laura

[T Town Jake]

50. I've been screaming this out to fellow DU'ers for MONTHS...

...All it got me was a lot grief and numerous "Freeper" accusations. I eventually gave up on it. Hope you make out better.

[kutastha]

52. This thread brought up by a freeper

on a student doctor board:

http://forums.drslounge.com/showthread.php?p=1995307&posted=1#post1995307

[Senator Lamb]

53. it seems like gun control is over

as a position in the democratic party. i rarely hear any dem talk about it. i say we conceded that position. am i correct?

[burythehatchet]

54. I believe that if you read some of the more thoughtful comments

the common theme is that gun control is an extremely worthwhile cause. But the best way to explain it is in this way:

Imagine two rivers, one an easy flowing, idyllic, calm waterway, and the other a class 5 white water rapid type river.

If you are on a raft on the Calm river you can fairly well control events and not be too concerned about beiong flipped over or something. In other words, you don't need a paddle.

On the Angry river, without a paddle you would be "up shit creek", pun intended.

In this analogy, the river represents our times and the paddle represents the gun.

Pursuing a policy that seriously addresses our gun epidemic is a VERY important goal to me, but we need to survive their assault in order to have the opportunity to do so.

[AndyTiedye]

58. We Tried to Concede On Gun Control, But Nobody Noticed

[burythehatchet]

57. Thanks for posting that thread Kutastha

what a feeble exchange. I don't want to go through registering to post there, don't even know if I would be able. So if they are reading this or if you would post a message in response, neither side of the arguments that the posters there presented is even remotely similar to what our sentiments really are. Who the hell are they to attribute motives and desires to us. If they really want to understand then they should join the debate rather than judge it.

[Jack_DeLeon]

59. I'm glad that more Democrats....

seem to be dropping the foolish notion of gun control.

I'm sad though that alot of recent converts are only doing so because Bush got re-elected.

I'm hoping that once we regain power that those same Democrats dont once again change thier mind and become pro-gun control again.

[donheld]

60. I've been of two minds on the gun issue.

While i kind of wanted the assault weapons ban should have been renewed. I also thought those weapons may someday be needed if we have to take back our country.

[Kipepeo]

65. DEMOCRATS ARM YOURSELVES

A very funny bumpersticker that I've had for years that now seems reasonable.

hmm...

[Zorra]

66. My new sig line:

I'm a Democrat and my democracy was stolen, so now I have nothing left to lose except for a really bad case of PMS and my AK-47.

[Steelangel]

67. Yes, that is definitely good move

I am not guy who goes against guns but never see any reason to have one but right after 11/2, it opens my eyes and I definitely have to get one or two.

[iverglas]

68. A question for the RKBA-heads in the crowd

If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

Nah, that wasn't it ... oh yeah.

Counted to a million yet?

I'm gonna count to three, and if you aren't gone ...

Okay, that does it. I'm gonna count to ten.

Eleven, twelve ... you better get going now!



Haven't you all left the overthrow-of-tyrants thing just a tad late here? Everybody else knew what was going on some time ago. It's just got a bit worse right now. If you'd done your patriotic duty in a timely manner, wouldn't the problem have been solved?

When, exactly, do you stop talking and start putting your money where all your mouths are? Or are you really just a bunch of blowhards, and is what you're blowing really just smoke, of the screening variety?


And for the author of the originating post, the obvious question, which doesn't really seem to be have been asked or answered.

Today I reversed my position on Guns

Why's that, exactly?

Oh, and:

I have never in my life touched a firearm. Today I have arrived at the conclusion, at the age of 44, that the second amendment serves a very valuable purpose.

What's that, exactly?

And just kinda generally, what the hell is your point?

[burythehatchet]

69. first take a valium

then ...

better left unsaid...

have a nice day

[iverglas]

71. too late

and too little.

And too much more.

Too bad.

[Sugarbleus]

73. Hear that.

I'm not crazy about guns either. I posted in a thread here about this very topic. In some strange way, the gun ban being lifted might just come in handy afterall. That door swings both ways now, IMO

I'm not running out for a gun because I don't live in an area that is all that hostile to "we liberal". My liberal sister who lives in the high sierras will own one though.....

Oh Gawd, visions of Ruby Ridge come creeping back. =o/

[sherilocks]

75. I own two hand-guns

I am NRA certified and I have taken the necessary classes to get a carry permit here in Florida. But there is so much work involved, going to the firing range for practice, cleaning it, etc. that I locked them away. I'm considering getting them out again and completing my application for the carry permit.

It pains me that I will have to give up a couple of hours a week to shoot at paper men. But I'm beginning to think it might be a good idea.

[Dogmudgeon]

76. A better defense against tyranny

Vigilence.

I don't consider myself to be competent to use a firearm in personal defense. I am easily spooked, and am on the borderline of narcolepsy as it is -- even a minute of laughter will make me go weak. I suppose that's more neurology than psychology, but whatever it is, I would think twice before depending on a firearm for self-defense.

On the other hand, there is a very simple process anyone can -- and everyone must -- do to prevent tyranny. That is to get informed.

A lot of right-wing "gun nuts" want to withdraw from the world, and feel that they need guns to stay safe. But if you don't withdraw from the world and take part in your community, your chances of being caught unaware are much lower.

I personally don't support strong gun control -- we need rational, commonsense regulations about firearms, but I am under no illusions that banning guns will make us any less violent a society. But the idea that many pro-gun people (especially on the Right) have -- that "an armed society is a polite society" -- is completely wrong. Violence and fear make a viscious circle.

If you don't want to handle guns, make sure at least to keep informed. If you do want to have guns around, make sure you become as expert as you can in their safe use -- and how to avoid situations where you might have to use them.

--bkl

[burythehatchet]

79. I couls not agree with you more

I certainly don't "want" to be around guns but right now my only option for self defense is an antique Indian elephant poker!

[Spiffarino]

91. Vigilance is the first step

...but when the bad guys come, you have to be ready for the next step. The Federalist Papers are a good source about what the FF's thoughts were behind the 2nd Amendment.

Too many of us on the left side think guns are bad. This is where the right gets it right, IMHO. They're only bad in the wrong hands. You said it right..."violence and fear" do make a vicious circle. If you remove fear from that equation, you can break the circle. And now is not the time to be afraid.

[Democracy Died 2004]

81. I have always been in favour of gun ownership

I grew up very very poor and a lot of the meals came from the use of a gun. However we never had to use assault rifles, street sweepers, Military style rifles for this. I do noe hunt these days as i can afford to let someone else kill for me.<But that seems to be changing> I guess the bottom line is this. I recently purchased a few guns and it wasn't for hunting. This country scares me and i fear for what the future holds.

[Mr_Spock]

86. Yeah, this issue is not going to be on the table in the future.

I got a .22 rifle now and it is fun for target practice. I'm looking for a piece that is good for self-defense (pistol) and maybe a better rifle. My GF is a liberal, but she is uneasy about these psycho's in office so she wants to learn to fire soon too. Interesting times we live in...

[Cuban_Liberal]

87. I have a fair-sized collection.

3 shotguns, 2 rifles and 4 pistols. In addition, Paddy has 2 shotguns, 2 rifles and a pistol. We won't go quietly, if and when they come for us.

[coreystone]

88. What was the rationale of the 2nd Amendment by our “Founding Fathers”?

Personally, I have no problem with the Second Amendment, it is only the “line” which is drawn to determine what arms should be “guaranteed” by these rights, and the availability to violent felons to be “guaranteed” these rights. Actually there are many questions which I have concerning the “rational” level of thought pertaining to the discussion of what the “Second Amendment” meant in its ratification by our “founding fathers”.

At this point of this thread I would care to introduce the following:

The Hidden History of the Second Amendment
By Professor Carl T. Bogus

“In his recent U.C. Davis Law Review article "The Hidden History of the Second Amendment," Roger Williams University School of Law Professor Carl T. Bogus offers a thesis that could forever change the way Americans view the Second Amendment: James Madison wrote the Second Amendment to assure the southern states that Congress would not undermine the slave system by disarming the militia, which were then the principal instruments of slave control throughout the South.”

Link: http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/hidhist.htm