Anyone really have sympathy for "Contractors" aka Mercs in Iraq?

[Solon]

I ask this because of this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x961758

and while I won't comment on that specific Merc, let me just why anyone would have sympathy for a person that is hired to go into a war zone, possibly to kill?

The reason I ask is that our military and Britain's military troops do not really have a choice as to whether they go to war or not. They cannot quit the military without going to jail at the very least, and they are paid very little for the jobs they do. So why the hell should I have sympathy for someone who voluntarily gone to Iraq, maybe just to drive a truck, but gets paid more than 4 times the amount of our troops, just because he is a civilian?

These Mercs are dangerous, and I'm not talking just about the Abu Ghriab scandal, where "Interrogation Specialists" from some PMCs were involved, and may have ordered some of the torture by our troops. But these truck drivers, pipeline guards, and envoy guards, how can they ever be trusted? Hell, they just go for the highest bidder after all, and who is to say that a year from now we would be able to afford them? Not to mention that our own troops cannot rely on them for combat support, putting themselves in more jeopardy just to ensure that companies like Halliburton get more bang for their buck.

This also brings up another point, these Mercs don't have to follow the rules of engagement at all. How are they regulated in Iraq, and if one does commit a crime, like in Abu Graib, then how are they handled?
Many of these Mercs have been trained in some of the worst conflicts in the world, where human right abuses, like razing entire villages, mostly in Africa or Southeast Asia, are standard procedure. Why should I feel sympathy for any of them, simply because they found a way to make money off our and others suffering? What is so different between them and professional hit man for hire?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. As the freeps so fondly state.... "thems that live by the sword, shall

die by the sword".... quoting from some famous book or something....

[Katherine2]

4. I don't sympathize

Regardless of Bush's "Mission Accomplished", we're fighting a war, and they voluntarily entered the war zone to make money. It's not like they're aid workers or journalists.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. Here is what the Iraqis see.... how would you like to earn $350,000

a year for swaggering around someone elses country with a machine gun strapped to your hip?


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6069.htm

>>It is astonishing that a military establishment which has poured billions upon billions into the development of communication technology that allows for close command and control never before dreamt of by military commanders can have sanctioned such a use of mercenaries. They have armed mercenaries all over the country over whom they can exercise no effective supervision and whom they cannot even communicate with. In a situation where the Americans know they are walking on egg shells, where innocent but explosive misunderstandings can occur at any minute, the introduction of swaggering, overpaid and undersupervised commando types is little more than idiotic.

Another question hanging in the air is why the Bush administration has resorted to the wholesale use of mercenaries. What you may lose in command and control with military operations of one sort or another carried out by commercial contract, you gain in secrecy and, as John Dean is making a point of, we have an administration in Washington of secrecy fetishists. It is much harder to dig out what the corporate warlords, who are immune from the Freedom of Information Act and most other forms of inquiry, are up to. We know, for example, that the State Department has hired a war corps to carry out various military duties in Colombia, but precise knowledge of what they are doing is gained only by a reporter risking life and safety—and even then, the facts may remain hidden.<<

[da_chimperor]

2. They know what to expect. They're willingly going into a war zone . . .

for fun and profit. I have about as much sympathy for one of them as I would for some dumbass who blew his head off playing Russian roulette.

[gordianot]

3. U.S. Troops and most other Govt personnel . Yes

Humanitarian volunteers, employees yes.



Independent Contractors, Halliburton and Corporate Interests......well

[leetrisck]

9. So are humanitarin volunteers "paid" - do

we think they are there for nothing. I know a lot of people over there in civilian capacities - many are there to protect our own troops, etc. Most are there for a job (not any here)that they know how to do whether it be driving a truck, telephones, etc or carrying a gun.

[Solon]

25. First off, most Humanitarian workers...

work for non profits, like the Red Cross. Second, they do NOT get payed 600+ dollars a day for thier jobs. Most are only provided with neccessities because of limited funds, so to equate the two is like equating a soup kitchen worker with a professional assassin. Spurious at best.

[billyoc]

5. Even Machiavelli had no respect for these freebooters

They are the worst of the worst. Hired killers, pure and simple, loyal to nobody and nothing save their own pocketbooks.

[ET Awful]

6. No sympathy at all, that's why I didn't shed a tear

when the incident with the contractors bodies being burned and pulled through the street, etc. was reported.

Those weren't contractors, they were mercenaries.

I have no sympathy for someone who would kill for profit.

[leetrisck]

17. Oh that is just so cute

you don't have any damned idea who is doing what there - apparently no more than our government does. People go where the jobs are and they always have and for some reason people think these civilians working over there are really making the big bucks - you might want to look a little closer before you spout your mouth off. To put it bluntly you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[Fatima]

20. do you have any "damned idea?"

just curious.

[leetrisck]

21. Yes -

to satisfy your curiosity - it wouldn't make me so angry if I didn't have some damned idea.

[Fatima]

26. then enlighten us, please.

You want to defend hired guns, present your facts.

[Solon]

23. They do make an enormous amount of money...

check this article out:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11607

[leetrisck]

27. Lots of articles says lots of things

I had already read that article and many others. You perhaps should see the bottom line on the paychecks sometime - if they live to get it - please note what this particular group was doing - getting food to the military - without the military - doing it themselves.

[Cat Atomic]

I don't know what the mercenaries get, but my friend was offered

$500k per month to go over there and handle some kind of IT thing in Baghdad.

[Solon]

33. The point is that the Military could feed itself without...

these outragious costs, more effeciently and safely. Plus, these truck drivers and others CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO PROTECT EITHER THE FOOD OR OUR TROOPS, most are not either American or British, plus they are only there for money, plain and simple. Would they willing go into a battle down the road where our troops are hard pressed, or would they simply bypass it and find an easier route? How many of our troops lost their lives so we can keep these contractors there? This is part of the reason I think they should NOT be there at all.

[ET Awful]

36. First, the contractors were Blackwater Security Consultants

They are made up primarily of ex-special forces and ex-military men.

They ARE paid at a rate many times higher than our legitimate troops, and my tax dollars go to pay them. While my tax dollars are being spent paying huge amounts to these mercenaries, our legitimate troops are being deprived of lifesaving body armor and vehicle armor, not to mention day to day necessities like batteries for night vision devices, etc.

Contracters ARE making big bucks in Iraq. If you don't realize that, than your ignorance of the matter has just been laid bare for all to see.

I suggest that YOU actually do a little investigation instead of just spewing bullshit, it might do you some good.

[leetrisck]

37. And you sir can go straight to hell

for wishing death on anyone - your ignorance is obvious

[ET Awful]

38. So tell me where you learned how to read.

Considering nothing I ever said anywhere wished death on anyone. I believe what I said was I have no sympathy for people who kill people for profit when they themselves meet that fate.

You really have a problem with reading comprehension don't you?

[DireStrike]

7. A few articles in here that will make you stop, if so.

http://www.georgewbush.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10920

To clarify, since they are long articles, they provide a glimpse into the overall "strategy" in Iraq, and show the roles that foreign contractors/companies play.

[rockydem]

8. some are there to guard civilians

some guard installations...

I don't think most are the darker elements that commit atrocities like Abu 'Grub'...

But I could be wrong...

I do find the idea of war for profit disturbing...it can lead to nasty things.

[Xipe Totec]

10. Iraq is a Free Country Now

These red blooded entrepreneurs have the God given right to go there and conduct bidness.

With higher risk comes higher rewards, as the Republican mantra goes.

Feeling sorry for them when they get shot up and their bidness goes down in flames is a sign of moral weakness; A liberal chink in our free capitalist armor.

Besides, as mercs they are getting paid 10 to 20 times as much as our soldiers in uniform, and they can quit and go home any time they want to.

Yea, baby, long live free capitalism!

[liberalmuse]

11. Fuck mercenaries...

oh, excuse me, 'contractors' (aka; 'war profiteers') and fuck war, too. I feel bad a human life was lost so senselessly, but it's hard to be more sympathetic than that. I wish it was publicized every time a citizen of Iraq was blown to bits for no goddamned good reason. Or everytime one of our troops was killed because of this godforsaken war. We have absolutely no business being in Iraq. WTF are mercenaries doing in Iraq, anyway? WTF are WE doing in Iraq? Anyone profiting from the Bush-created human misery in Iraq is better wiped off the face of humanity.

[leetrisck]

18. And I would say the same to you

F* off when you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[Fatima]

22. Why don't you enlighten us with some facts then?

Include links. Prove you are more intellectually capable than say, a turnip.

[leetrisck]

34. Include links??? To a personal knowledge?

From something I know first hand - oh geez, I'm so sorry I can't provide links for that.

[cali]

24. Well aren't you self-righteous

Your sentiments disgust me. The facile ease with which you judge others, disgusts me. Clearly, not everyone can be as enlightened as you. Not everything is clear cut to everybody. Too often people forget the value of ambiguity.

[leetrisck]

31. I'm hardly judging others - you are - your sentiments disgust

me.

[spanone]

13. No. They're professionals. Know the risks and the money is good.

[sleipnir]

14. My new answer "Fuck them, not my concern anymore"

After the Bush election, that's my new line to deal with Iraq and the rest of the shitty foreign policy.

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. Not a lot

Well, none really.

[SmokingJacket]

16. Private armies are what B** will need to use to fight his

oil wars. They're keeping the madness going.

Should be illegal.

[seemslikeadream]

19. The Dogs of War

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=9558&mesg_id=9558

[Taverner]

28. I feel sorry for them, yes...don't buy the Clerks Death Star Argument

And I refer specifically to the contractors who AREN'T mercs...

No one should be in that kind of situation...if the economy wasnt so ruined all over the world, contractors wouldnt have to be there...

[Hubert Flottz]

29. Did they have any sympathy for those POWs?

The ones they wanted the GIs to "Soften Up"?

[Fatima]

32. Of course not,

all you have to do is look at this thread, this board and look at this filthy war...and you realize that we Muslims are nothing but "filthy ragheads" not even worthy of life or dignity. Even to so-called Democrats. Hard to believe that people would defend hired guns sent to kill on "economic" grounds. It's a load of crap.

[Cat Atomic]

30. Soldiers, aid workers, etc.? Of course. Mercenaries? No.

[Solon]

35. Another fun fact, CACI the companie involved in the torture...

of Iraqi POWs was awarded a no bid contract for private interrogators in Iraq. Doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11516