Why it might have been good for Kerry to concede when he did.

[coloradodem2005]

I know that this has been unpopular with you. And you do have a point about fighting for every vote to count. In 2000, Gore fought for over a month. He lost that battle and it was a sad day for America. Though, it is possible that that fight did far more damage to the Democrats than anything. Kerry knew that it would get more acrimonious if Kerry kept pushing because he would have lost anyway. I know that a lot of you feel abandoned. So do I. The problem is that he could only do so much. And it might just hurt us more as time goes on.

On the other hand, it does come off that Kerry did help with the disenfranchisement of voters by bailing. I am not saying that we need to just bend over and take it. But the thing is, that it is the citizens of this country who need to fight for our voting rights. The candidates can only do so much. THe problem is, that when one side has the power, it is extremely difficult. In 2000, both sides came out hated. But the Republicans won. We need to be the ones who take the fight for our candidates during election time. The same way we fought for Kerry, we need to fight for our future now. Kerry cannot fight all of the injustice for us. Gore tried and they practically hung him for it.

I feel all the pain that you are feeling. But, what would Kerry not conceding and continuing to fight have done? It would have hurt us, the way Gore doing it has done. We need to find a new way to fight. We need to fight the Republicans on the issues and present a clear alternative there. Then we won't have to fight them on election results. In the mean time, we need to investigate all charges of voter fraud to try to bring these problems to light. But if Kerry had done it, he would not have uncovered anything and he would have looked self-serving. It wouldn't have just hurt Kerry, but it would have hurt the Democrats. And sadly, Gore's fight may have already done damage and Kerry's would have made it worse. I don't appreciate what the Republicans did in response, but we need to fight in a way that they don't feel validated.

That aside, we cannot continue to bend to the will of the Republicans. We need to fight them and their media and their machines. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

[roseBudd]

1. and all the talk of fraud will tarnish * and his so-called mandate

[cheezus]

2. and it demoralized his supporters

so there'll be less enthusiam to fight next time

[mbee]

3. Having other people report the election fraud such as that Fisher guy

in FL who has just contacted the FBI is better. He has nothing personal to gain so I wish him luck exposing these SOB criminals.

[LTRS]

4. No, I totally disagree

Opinion polls for nearly 4 yrs now have consistently shown that 38-45% of the public viewed Bush as an illegit president, not duly elected by the people. Gore didn't hurt himself or the party one bit by contesting in 2000. If anything, he hurt himself by going into seculsion for far too long after the election was over.

[deadparrot]

5. Agreed.

We'd look like leftist loonies, because there is no paper trail. Those votes aren't just misplaced; they've disappeared into thin air. Plus, we would have lost, anyway. The Supreme Court is Republican controlled.

We can fight this, but Kerry's concession wasn't going to change anything. It's going to take time, past December when the EC convenes. It's a process.

I know there are some here would would like nothing more than to tar and feather the man right now, call him a plant, etc. But let's just give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment. He's spend two years campaigning day and night for the presidency, and it appears that he will lose, whether that end was acheived through fraud or not.

[hlthe2b]

6. I fault Kerry with not having brought up the major issues with

voting during the past two years. He discussed it on the campaign trail, but what did he do to address it? What did our DEM colleagues in Congress/Senate do to address it? I truly believe they have a real blind spot to these issues. I know that Mark Crispin Miller spoke to him about the ready corruption of touch screen voter systems--he had Theresa upset, but Kerry seemingly not...? At any rate, he didn't get much response.

However, had Kerry stayed in the race, the media would have eaten him alive and very negative stories on DEMS trying to steal the election, or "is statesman behavior dead..." would have dominated all electronic and print press. We all recall the pressure exerted on Gore and HE had won the popular vote. As of Wednesday morning, Kerry clearly had not. I see it as a no win situation. While Kerry was being excoriated, there is no way that any findings of fraud we might develop would ever get attention. That's why I continue to maintain the bastardized press is our biggest problem for the future.

[coloradodem2005]

8. I fault Kerry with that and other things.

Such as not smacking down swiftboat vets and all this other stuff. But the fact is, fighting like Gore did wouldn't have worked.

[cornermouse]

7. Why would the people of Ohio ever vote democrat

again after Kerry rolled over? I don't know if their vote was counted, but when he quit so early, they know that their vote did not count. I think this could be a problem.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Many likely will not...

I spent much of my time the last several weeks locating occasional voters and getting them to the polls. These were voters who were likely to vote for Kerry - but who have a spotty record of getting to the polls. Some had not voted in long enough to have been removed from the voting rolls (2 presidential elections) who had to vote provisionally, others were more recent defectors but still folks who don't always make it.

I am going to do my darnedest to keep these folks involved - but the question I expect when I go back to them is, "I dragged myself to the polls for the first time in years and voted - and whether or not my vote would have made a difference, my vote was not valuable enough to Kerry for him to even wait for it to be counted before conceding. Give me one good reason why I should even bother next time."

There is a difference between fighting tooth and nail in a losing battle on the one hand and honoring the sacrifice individuals made by quietly waiting for the provisional ballots to be counted before conceding on the other. I do not necessarily believe a fight would have been wrong or harmful - I do know the early concession was a slap in my face and a slap in the face of each of the voters I convinced to make the effort to go to the polls and vote.

[paulk]

9. there was little to gain by not conceding

Bush had "won" the popular vote and
any investigation into fraud was going to take a long time
maybe years before anything conclusive could be proved
Kerry would have been tagged a sore loser -
nothing to gain there.
If it does come out that Bush stole the election
it will destroy the Republican Party


if the Democrats in the Senate can stick together and block
Bush's radical agenda
we can survive the next four years

we need to build the infrastructure for defeating the Republicans
Rove had four years to plan this theft
now we truly understand what we're up against


meanwhile -
for the first time in 44 years, Democrats control the Colorado Legislature.

It can be done.

[doni_georgia]

13. I agree

Kerry came off as gracious in defeat, which Gore unfortunately didn't. When the moderate and non-Christian-Right Republicans split - and this will happen, with the radicalization going on now - Kerry's action will be remembered favorably as being done for the good of the country rather than himself.

Also: Nixon got reelected, and it wasn't the press that exposed Watergate. John Dean related in "Lost Honor" that there were a lot of people in the White House who believed that when Dean broke from the ranks and ceased to work to cover up Watergate, the chance of hiding it failed. Had he continued to cover it up, the chances are that Nixon would not have had to resign.

Consider: Watergate was a relatively minor illegality that was magnified by presidential involvement. If there was an election fraud, and someone out there knows it and ISN'T on board with the gloves-off tack that the White House is taking, there will be very, very large repercussions. Nixon was going to crush McGovern no matter what happened, Watergate or no Watergate. Bush's rear end was in a huge sling on Election Day and - if election fraud is demonstrated on any kind of reasonable scale - it can be credibly and forcefully argued that he would not have won without it.

Most conspiracies collapse not from exposure, but under their own weight. If the allegations are true, they WILL come out eventually. The number of changes in, and the people leaving, the White House are a bellwether. Watch closely. And if the FBI and CIA get involved, watch out.

Mac in Ga

[Mandate My Ass]

10. He legitimized a fraudulent election after stoking everyone up

that this time all the votes would be counted.

The machines are bogus. How would it be self-serving of him to point out that machines were counting backwards? That machines were giving thousands more votes to Bush than people who actually voted? How would it be self-serving to note that all the machine errors benefitted Bush?

People like Bev Harris know where to look this time. THey know how the system is being gamed. Lots of GOP shenanigans were documented this time. By glossing over the BBV problems Kerry ensured that they will continue on a larger and larger scale until elections become meaningless.

[puddycat]

11. I heartily disagree that it was good for Kerry to concede.

Kerry should have fought like hell. I expected him to. This is the first time I ever got involved in a political campaign in my life--and I did it with the full expectation that he was going to fight a long fight over the votes. We knew there was going to be Republican funny business. So I am totally perplexed at his capitulation. I am demoralized over it, too. I'll have to think long and hard before I work for any campaign, again. I think I'll choose to work for causes, instead.

I just hope that his capitulation indicates that the Dems have something bigger and better up their sleeves. One can hope.

[Baja Margie]

12. You've made some good observations

and valid points. Let's hope this isn't the end, but it very well may be. They might know something we don't. And, they probably do know alot more that they aren't telling us. We can only speculate right now.

Meanwhile, I think we all need to focus on getting rid of these voting machines. In Oregon, they mail in their votes, and it seems to work quite well. Course, I guess someone could always get to the Post Master General, and we could have millions of votes suddenly lost in the mail.

How about putting some teeth into any existing election laws, for example, if you are party to manipulating vote outcomes, you are fucked, like life in prison no parole. Actually, it is treasonous, just shoot the motherfuckers in the head.

[Virginian]

15. It is up to us to fight for fair elections.

Kerry would have been branded a sore loser if he had fought this. It is up to us to fight for our voting rights. Support Bev Harris and www.BBV.org.