Nothing in the Bible says that abortion is a sin.

[Maddy McCall]

Many anti-abortionists feel that the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill," covers the abortion issue. But in Mosaic law God covers the exceptions to this law, indicating quite clearly who may be killed and for what offense. For instance, if a man or woman has sex with an animal or commits adultery they must be killed. Does "Thou shalt not kill" apply to abortion? No. Miscarriage or abortion is an exception. Let's look at Exodus 21:22

"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

In this instance a woman has been so injured, in a fight between two men, that she has aborted. The law states that if "no harm follows" the outsider must pay the husband a fine. An abortion has been induced through violence and this is not considered harmful. Abortion, then, is not a capital offense or a violation of the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."

Does anyone know where in the Bible a prophet of God calls upon God to induce abortions in the wives of his enemies? Let's look at Hosea 9:14.

Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb (an abortion) and dry breasts.

And later,

...yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
Hosea 9:16


In this case God causes abortions, the prophet prays that these women will abort. If these are truly innocent children, how could God do this? But they are not, they are "miscarrying wombs," "unperfect substances" and God will prevent them from becoming human souls that will grow up to oppress his people.


What if Mary had Decided to Abort Jesus?


Many people are surprised to learn that God gave Mary a choice concerning her pregnancy with the future Savior. In the gospel of Luke the angel came to her announcing what the will of God was for her life. In verse 1:38 Mary replies, "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." Mary gives her assent. To believe that Mary had no voice in the process is unthinkable, for that would mean that God forced Himself on (raped) an unwed, teenaged virgin. Mary chose to be the mother of our Savior. God honored her ability to make that choice.

Conclusion

Abortion is not a sin, though blasphemy and idolatry are. To say that human copulation (which the Bible calls unclean) has the power to bestow life is blasphemy. No mere act of man can negate the fact that only God bestows life, by giving the fully formed body, breath. Asserting that human life begins at conception is counter to the claims of the word of God and is a sin. It is doubly a sin because this debased belief leads others to sin. Those that kill clinic workers, harass clients and attempt to legislate this wayward belief lead innocent believers down a road to murder and depravity.

Follow the example of Jesus, let those that want Christ come to you. Do not force the grace of God on anyone. God has the power, not only to give life, but to save. As Paul says in Galatians 2:21,

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.


http://www.postfun.com/pfp/blasphemy.html

[GingerSnaps]

1. Wow I never thought about that Thanks

Your peeling an onion on here if you know what I mean. :D

[w13rd0]

2. Not only this...

...but there are instructions in the OT for a man to take his wife to one of the Levites (the priests), who can give her a 'potion'. If the child is the fruit of the husband, she will suffer no ill-effects other than a stomach ache. If it is the fruit of another, it will be aborted. Unsure of the verse.

[scarletwoman]

3. I have heard an Hassidic rabbi speak about abortion,

he says the traditional Jewish reading of scripture is that life begins -- a child is "ensouled" -- at the moment of its first breath outside the womb. Simple as that.

sw

[Atlas Mugged]

5. I'm familiar with that

And, if I remember correctly, 'soul' and 'breath' are the same word in ancient Hebrew.

[cvoogt]

17. Soul --> spirit --> respiration

Not only in Hebrew, but in Romance languages, German, and Sanskrit.

The German word for breathing is "atmen" and from what I remember the Sanskrit word "atman" means soul (roughly). Also interesting is the name Adam, but here we go into speculative etymology.

[scarletwoman]

35. Yes, "'soul' and 'breath' are the same word in ancient Hebrew."

I'm quite sure you're correct. (Used to know a little ancient Hebrew myself, but that was a long time ago...)

The thing is, "breath" and "spirit" come from the same Latin root word, as well. I believe the Sanskrit words for these are also closely related.

It's really a worldwide traditional concept, that the moment of the first breath is the point at which the individual human life begins.

Years ago I asked a classically trained yoga teacher about the Hindu take on abortion. He said it was considered to be a karmicly neutral act. The reason being that if a soul wishes to incarnate, and a prospective mother wishes not to be the vehicle for this, the soul will find another way in through someone else's womb. Therefore, it's TOTALLY up to the woman whether or not she wishes to lend herself to be the means to any particular soul's return to earth.

sw

[annak110]

22. John M. Swomley, a Christian Ethicist writes that this statement

occurs in the Hebrew bible 76 times. British Common Law was based on this and we borrowed their Common Law so that it has always been a concept in Western Culture. The idea that "life" begins at conception is, of course, a Vatican fantasy or Papal Bull that has been forced on us all over time. Couple that with the strictures against birth control methods and you see that the Corporatist side of that Church would prefer women in the role of "Baby Factory".

Fascist Europe including Germany, clung to the idea that abortions should always be illegal because they said, "it was for the good of the state" you know, like of cannon fodder was produced along with new factories all the time. The fascists were quiet religious over there in that time too. They went to war (read: illegally invaded sovereign countries) with "god on their side".

[aquart]

4. Thank you!

I had a complete misapprehension about Mary's consent.

I saved this to my hard drive.

[aquart]

6. Don't forget Psalm 22.

22:10 Upon thee was I cast from my birth, and since my mother bore me, thou hast been my god. Revised Standard Version.

[nine30]

7. My Abortion bumper stickers

I wanna fuckin' piss of these Red Staters. If I ever have to rent a car in Kansas or Wyoming or Nebraska or any those other shithole states, I am going to put a temporary bumper sticker like this on my rental car and drive through the smaller towns

1. Abortion is Failsafe contraception

2. Harvest babies for research.

3. Legalize abortion for upto 6 months AFTER delivery. In some cases, 18yrs.

4. No condoms ? No worries. Abort later.

Then I would like to see their reactions in my rear view mirror.

[Heyo]

26. Talk about backlash....

.. you'd be leaving lifetime Republicans in your wake everywhere you go.

Heyo

[nine30]

33. Can't get any worse in those states n/t

[annak110]

29. How about, "Making abortions illegal never stopped abortions

but mandatory vasectomies WILL!

[Liberty2001]

8. I disagree with your interpretation

The Bible is quoted:

"When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

You interpreted this to mean:

"In this instance a woman has been so injured, in a fight between two men, that she has aborted. The law states that if "no harm follows" the outsider must pay the husband a fine. An abortion has been induced through violence and this is not considered harmful. Abortion, then, is not a capital offense or a violation of the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." "

If there is no serious harm, even though she aborted ... then why fine the men?

The men are being fined for causing a miscarriage, even though the woman wasn't seriously harmed.

Now, you can say that they didn't treat it as seriously as if the woman had been hurt seriously ... but that doesn't mean that they didn't think the miscarriage worth punishing.

The fact that they fined the men for causing a miscarriage shows that they intended to punish it, although the punishment was not grave.

[Maddy McCall]

10. The fine...

is because the man hurt the woman, not because the child was aborted. When a woman miscarries, she bleeds, thus she is harmed. It has nothing to do with "life" in her uterus.

This precedes the bible, by the way. Read the Code of Hammurabi.

[Liberty2001]

13. Why ...

Would there be a fine if the woman was not seriously harmed?

That would be because the harm was a miscarriage.

[Maddy McCall]

18. Yes, there would be fine if she were harmed in any way.

Again, read the Code of Hammurabi. That is where these biblical laws originated.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. Possibly because of the harm to the woman that wanted to be pregnant

..it really doesn't speak to the act of casting forth a fetus by your own free will.

[Liberty2001]

20. Keep in mind ...

That I am merely trying to provide other reasonable textual interpretations.

I am hardly any kind of Bible thumper (I'm agnostic) ... but I have a hard time squeezing my grapes (or crossing my eyes) in order to reach the conclusion which the o.p. tried to reach.

[Maddy McCall]

25. I am merely providing information that is available on the web.

I didn't author this, but I agree with it. Go read the WHOLE page at the link, if you haven't already.

[Liberty2001]

30. I understand ...

But also keep in mind that there are other Bibles with wording slightly different. You might want to compare other texts ... IMHO.

[Maddy McCall]

31. Exactly, so why base opposition to abortion on biblical interpretation?

????

[Liberty2001]

34. Turn it around ...

Why justify abortion based on the Bible?

[Maddy McCall]

37. As long as I have been a pro-choice advocate, I have had to listen...

to anti-choice arguments, supposedly based on biblical tenets.

I have NUMEROUS other reasons to support choice; but the only way to argue with fundies is through the bible, through showing them that the bible is not pro-life on this issue.

[Bad Thoughts]

41. Don't frame it pro-life/pro-choice

What the Biblical verses say is that abortion (planned or otherwise) is not murder, and it does not deserve the penalty for murder.

[newyawker99]

15. Hi Liberty2001!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Liberty2001]

23. Thanks!!! I appreciate the welcome.

[pelagius]

32. It was an economic loss...

...and merited an economic punishment. No life was taken.

"Bible-believing" Christians have a tough time justifying their anti-abortion stance with Scripture.

[leyton]

9. I disagree.

"...yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
Hosea 9:16


In this case God causes abortions, the prophet prays that these women will abort. If these are truly innocent children, how could God do this? But they are not, they are "miscarrying wombs," "unperfect substances" and God will prevent them from becoming human souls that will grow up to oppress his people."

God promises to slay a lot of people. That doesn't mean we can.

And in general, I think abortion is a terrible sin, though no strict anti-abortion law is going to do away with them. (Which is why I don't identify with the pro-life movement.)

[Maddy McCall]

11. God causes abortion?

then it isn't a sin, is it?

[Liberal Veteran]

21. Given the fact that upwards of 50% of conceptions self-terminate...

...because they fail to implant into the uterine wall, the notion that life begins at conception means God really sucked at the reproductive portion of creating life.

[Maddy McCall]

27. And let us not forget the many women, including me, who....

have had miscarriages (medically known as spontaneous abortion) at 12 weeks or later, long after implantation has occurred.

:-)

[leyton]

42. Let me clarify.

The first two paragraphs are me quoting the person above me.

God can do whatever He wants, and that includes taking lives. But He commands us not to do it, and so it's a sin.

[hippywife]

19. Fruit of their womb

can also refer to actual born children.

[Liberty2001]

28. That's how I read it.

[scarletwoman]

36. The "fruit of their womb" is their CHILDREN.

A fruit is a finished product. The finished product of pregnancy is a born child.

sw

[Liberty2001]

12. Again, I think your interpretation is flawed

You cite Hosea 9:16 as saying:

...yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

You interpret this as:

In this case God causes abortions, the prophet prays that these women will abort."

The "fruit of their womb" is children ... already born.

It is not god causing an abortion as you assert.

The English Standard Version interprets it as:

"Even though they give birth, I will put their beloved children to death."

[Maddy McCall]

16. So you are saying it's ok to murder children, but not foetuses?

[Bad Thoughts]

24. Orthodox Interpretation

Abortion is not the equivalent of killing, nor is it considered a right. For the most part, the foetus is considered to be part of the woman, and the decision to abort carries as much weight as amputating an arm. According to interpretation, this can only happen in order to deal with the health of the woman, and psychological illness is sufficient reason.

Added: in fact, orthodoxy suggests that abortion might be commanded to save the life of the mother.

[pelagius]

38. Do you mean Orthodox Christian or Orthodox Jew? n/t

[Bad Thoughts]

40. Orthodox Jewish

Based on the interpretation of Rashi.

[zbdent]

39. Freak them out

smear lamb's blood over their neighbors' doors, but not theirs . . .