Why do people who make - say, $80k per year - think that they're rich?

[devilgrrl]

Hey, I wish I made 80k a year because it's still decent money in most parts of the USA. However, it's nothing compared to what the top 1% make and there's very little chance most people will ever make it to that point within their life time.

Personally, I'm resigned to the fact that I'll never make the top 1% club - unless I win the lottery or start dealing coke or something - it's not going to happen and so what? I do OK. As for The Bush Crime Family's alleged tax "cuts", I haven't benefited from them - I didn't get dick back last year and my health care costs have gone up steadily the past four years. It's a Ponzi scheme!

So, all you people who make between $50k-$150k! You're NOT benefiting from The Bush Crime Family's tax "cuts" and you're NOT rich - so quit pretending that you are.

[IrishBloodEngHeart]

1. I don't know, but it certainly doesn't make you rich in LA!

[devilgrrl]

20. Exactly! But you can live decently.

:shrug:

[Cat Atomic]

32. Damn- that's the truth.

I make about 80k in an average year, and I rent. Ugh.

[Nimrod]

2. If I ever made 50k

I WOULD consider myself rich. I've spent my entire life between 8K and 23k - most of it closer to 8k.

[bullimiami]

3. geez

we make that kind of money and i feel like a damn pauper. 2 teens and we can hardly make ends meet.

[annabanana]

9. I see you're in Miami

We're in the same boat on Long Island. There's a lot eating away at it. Our local taxes are huge. Our sales tax is 8.75%, a week's worth of groceries is about $200 (when I use coupons and make an effort) And of course, the ever popular gasoline is about $2.30 per gallon.

[GDoyle]

4. There was a poll like this

There was a poll like this and although I can't recall the exact results, it was something like the 80% of the people polled thought they were in the top 5% of wage earners. Funny yet sad in a way. So, that is one reason people have this sort of natural fear Democrats will tax them, they think they're in the top as opposed to middle class.

GDoyle

[Strelnikov_]

44. 19% Thought They Were In The Top 1%, And The Next 20% Thought

they would be there someday.

So, 39% think they are, or will someday be, in the top 1% of income.

This poll was conducted before the 2000 election.

[GDoyle]

48. I saw a more recent one

There was a more recent one that was far more extreme.

GDoyle

[SheilaT]

5. Because most people

truly do not understand how much money it actually takes to be even in the top 10%, let alone the top 1%.

In a conversation today I heard of a man (someone's boss) who supports Bush because he's eliminating the estate tax. This man, according to my friend, stands to inherit $200,000, an amount, which while not trivial, was already exempt from estate taxes.

And the really unfortunate thing is that people simply do not make the connection between Bush's tax cuts for the rich, and the rise in their health care costs and how much more they or their kids are paying even to attend the local community college.

[calico1]

10. Exactly true.

I make in the $50K number. Its not bad, but its not rich. Not in CT for sure! I think with a lot of people the menatlity is that if they think they make more than everyone else they think they are "rich." Even if they aren't close to the 1% that Bush wants to favor with his tax cut.

[jrthin]

14. The vast majority of people

aren't aware of those facts because our corporate whore media will not explain this. The corporation media et al are all trying to takeover, and an informed public would make the takeover difficult.

[Sara Beverley]

29. Because they know so many people who make much less.

Everything is relative.

[RapidCreek]

36. Yep all my South Dakota Brethren are violently against Inheritance tax

oddly none of them seem to know that it only applys to estates worth 8 million or more. Even less recognize the fact that only 8 people in the entire state have holdings worth that much.

What is really funny is the state the assholes live in is subsidized with the revenues the government collects in inheritance tax and the income taxes collected in blue states. Good to know they place more importance on the fortunes of 8 people than they do on their kids having a school to go to....and paved roads to drive on and plants which filter the shit out of the water they drink...not to mention the pipes which deliver that water to them.

South Dakotans are quite possibly the the dumbest people in the nation, collectively speaking.....after Alabamans.

RC

[ET Awful]

6. I make between 50-100k and I know damn well I ain't rich.

I'm not uncomfortable, but I sure as hell ain't rich.

[spotbird]

7. The top 1% make something like 250K

With kids headed to college 80K isn't all that much money. In fact it is a disaster.

[htuttle]

12. Well, in 2001, the top 5% started at $280,000

And the top income bracket doesn't even kick in until you reach $307,000. I think the top 1% is even higher than that.

on edit:
Link to statistics above
http://www.census.gov/hhes/income/histinc/f03.html

[davekriss]

22. That's not correct ($280,000)

We're talking percentiles when we say "top 5%" or "top 1%" while you are quoting mean income for the tranche. The entry point is a lot lower. If I recall correctly, to hit "entry level" at the top 5%, then (in 2001 dollars) you had to have about $164,000 income; to hit the top 1% you had to have about $340,000. The means for both are substantially higher.

I couldn't find it just now (on my hard disk), but someone here a few years ago used the stacking of dimes to indicate the extreme concentration of wealth. Using 100 dimes to apportion the nation's net worth and 100 pennies to apportion the population, you'd have to stack income as follows (using 2001 data from the site listed at the bottom of the post):

* On top of 1 penny, place 38 dimes. That is how much net worth has been accumulated by the top 1% of our population (38.1%)

* Stack 5 dimes on top of the next 4 pennies. That represents the 21% owned by the next 4% of the population (the 95-99%tile)

* Stack 2 dimes on top of the next 5 pennies. That represents the 11% owned by the next 5% of the population (the 90-94$tile). All told, the top 10% has the pleasure of 71% of the nation's wealth.

* Stack 1 dime on each of the next 10 pennies. Two of the pennies get 2 dimes! That represents the 12% owned by the next 10% of the population (the 80-89%tile).

* Only 11 of the next 20 pennies get a dime to cover them from the rain! That represents the 11% owned by the next 20% (the 60-79%tile).

* There are only 4 dimes to cover the next 20 pennies! That represents the 4% owned by the next 20% (the 40-59%tile, the true "middle" in "middle-class"). 16 pennies stand uncovered!

* And what about the remaining 40 pennies? Not a single whole dime available for any! That represents the final 40% (the 1-39%tile).

We are experiencing the most extreme concentration of wealth and income since the guilded age. And the oligarchs' that rule us are busy fortifying their financial fortresses in face of the coming Age of Limits (oil, water, etc.) while the rest of us stand bewildered in front of another stolen election. Brace yourselves; as Hunter Thompson says somewhere, Big Dark Coming Soon.


(A useful site when making inequality arguments, http://www.inequality.org/factsfr.html )

[kurtyboy]

46. Actually, I think the top 1% now starts closer to

$400,000. I have a GOP cousin who thinks he's in the top 1% because he grosses (small business) nearly $350,000/yr. He just doesn't understand that the top 1% NETS (not grosses) $387,000 every year, and he's actually somewhere in the mid-quintiles.

NO AMOUNT OF EXPLAINING will go through his reasoning, he's a Republican, and intends to stay that way.

BTW, My wife and I make about 80K between us (All hers!), and we feel pretty fortunate.

Kurt

[prodigal_green]

8. I'm uhhhh...not rich

my federal tax rebate gained me $150.

my state and local taxes went up and ate that $150 and added $20 more.

my uncle is a multi-millionaire and venture capitalist. He votes Dem because he is not an asshole.

[annabanana]

11. Well, the Country could sure use more like your uncle!

Maybe he and his friends could buy us a cable news network.......Or put all of AAR on the air (not just Al).

[KayLaw]

13. Propaganda

I think it's RW propaganda -if I want you to be on my side, I want you to believe we're on the same boat. I did read of a poll that 20% of Americans believe they are in the 1% of American voters.

I know that during the Great Depression, doctors didn't do that well. They were paid with eggs, bread, etcetera. I wonder how they'll do this time. I wonder about lawyers as well. Anyone know, or willing to hazard a guess?

[hippywife]

15. I'd feel really rich if we made that much!

But actually, we try to live by the motto:

Live simply so others may simply live.

It makes life so much easier and we love not being under the sway of all the corporate marketing. There are definite advantages to being among the un-wealthy. }(

[prayin4rain]

16. When Bush was kind enough to point out that poor people aren't

NECESSARILY killers, I thought it was hilarious because all these people making 50K a year didn't even realize he was talking about THEM. All these 50K a year millionares think they are in his income echlon. Freakin' funny (if it weren't so pathetic, of course).

[Kimber Scott]

17. Maybe because the majority of the people in the world are lucky to

have one bowl of rice per day?

As for Bush tax cuts, it's all a bait and switch. I got a $400 check in the mail out of the blue, but had to pay it back on April 15th. We don't make 80k.

Here's a little secret for you... people like to pretend they are rich. Many of the most destitute people in this country sign up with the Republican party hoping maybe some of it will rub off on them. One of these days they're realize, trickle down is just trickled on.

[maddezmom]

18. personally, your income could be $200,000 in LA and you wouldn't be

RICH! It's all regional, housing costs, state taxes, property taxes, cooling and heating costs, gas prices, day care, etc. It's not how much you make, it's how much you have to spend to survive.

[HappinessPie]

19. I do but I support my hubby too at the moment, so we are SO not rich...

Portland is pretty expensive for houseing, and I haven't seen a DIME of benefit from his dumbass tax cuts! Once at the beginning of his term we bought a chair with our tax refund (I had toyed with sending it back, but we didn't have ANY chairs at the time).

[Lorien]

21. Because in many areas of the US, that means you have

money left over at the end of the year (depending on your lifestyle) , which makes formally poor people feel rich.

[prolesunited]

27. Yep, you can actually pay your bills

and maybe splurge on a few non-essentials. It feels good not to be hounded by bill collectors and not be always worried about making the house payment, but you're far from rich.

[bleedingheart]

23. It is their greed that makes them vote GOP...

they buy McMansions, own 2 or maybe 3 cars and have a home loaded with junk...they live to the edge and they don't want to pay taxes because they are starting to feel the squeeze ...it is all rather pathetic because I see many of my former friends in that position...living on the edge and getting greedier by the day.

[Lone_Wolf]

24. Because they are millionaire wannabee's

Great article explaining them:

http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/millionairewannabes.htm

[devilgrrl]

25. Forgive me for some points I omitted.

Sorry folks, I didn't mean to make it sound like it was easy in large cities or with children, nor was I judging anybody. A "mind set" is what I'm talking about - it concerns me. :shrug:

[maddezmom]

30. "if you want to live like a republican, vote democratic" or something

like that... :)

[serryjw]

26. The issue is NOT the $80K........

They are still working stiffs employeed by the greedy Corporate world and can be fired at a moments notice.

[ThoughtCriminal]

28. At 80-90k I've been quite comfortable

But certainly not rich. I think that would put us in the top 15% or so. For us, the tax cuts were a complete joke.

No plans to be rich either - quit my job this year to start my own business. If I make 1/3 of that next year I'll consider it a good start.

I don't have a lot of "toys" and we're not fashionable, but it's low stress and we have lots of freedom. I would like to have more saved for retirement though. Social Security is totally screwed now.

[Starlight]

31. BF & I make a little over 100k...

and we can barely afford a 1 bedroom apartment here in NJ. *I* certainly don't feel rich!!!

Part of it is probably because my job is reviewing trades in a brokerage firm. I see million dollar stock trades every single day. Trust me, LOTS of people are multi millionaires. And they're the ones who benefit from *'s tax cuts. People making 50-100k are dreaming if they think they're going to benefit.

[FM Arouet666]

33. GREED GREED GREED

I must admit I make more than 80k a year, a two physician income without kids. I certainly am not rich, it took years of education and loads of debt to achieve my income. However, most physicians, business execs, lawyers etc. vote their pocket book. I guess I got a break with the tax cuts, to be honest I don't know how much, my wife handles the bills. However, I am absolutely sure that the tax cut was not worth destroying the environment, oppressing homosexuals, removing a womens right to choose, invading and killing thousands of people for oil, etc etc etc. The republican party appeals to the darkest instincts in human nature. Avarice, greed, selfishness, xenophobia, religious intolerance etc.

[RapidCreek]

34. Well becuase compared to someone who makes 25k a year

they are.

RC

[BiggJawn]

40. Or 39 Kilobucks a year...

Working Poor Mega-Dildos, RC! :-)

If I made 80 kilobucks a year, I could pay my bills on time, instead of having to pay 2 month's gas bill one month, then 2 month's phone bill the next month, and always late on my car payment beacuse it's due on the 30th and my rent is due on the first, and I gotta admit, I'd rather stiff some meglo-corp for 10 days or so than my landlord....

And I imagine someone out there is saying "$39,000? Gah, my country club dues are more than that..."

[RapidCreek]

49. Yea right,eh?

39k is about the best I've done out here in SD in the past 10 years (Clinton was in office then).....man I thought I was livin large. Took flying lessons....went kayaking in Honduras, took a few college extension classes in Belfast...Those were the days.

Now I'm lucky if I pull down 20. Ride my bike, cause gas is too expensive and eat allot of mac n' cheese and Ramen noodles. I'm sure as shit glad I don't have kids to support. I got no friggin idea what the heck I'd do if I did.

RC

[MrSlayer]

35. I only reached those levels during the last 2 years of Clinton.

Tons of overtime, more work than you could do. Since Chimp I've been lucky to get 6 months of work a year. I never thought I was rich but 80 to 100K a year was real nice compared to 40 to 55 the past four.







Edit: Hit the enter button before I was done.

[fortyfeetunder]

37. $80K in Seattle certainly ain't rich

Housing prices are nearly comparable to So. Cal. Cost of living is on par with So. Cal.

We don't have an income tax yet, but sales tax take a hit too.

[greekspeak]

38. I would think I was rolling in it if I cleared 50K a year

My parents together barely clear 20K. I have never made more than 10K a year in my life. As an undergrad, I often resented my profs who would complain about how little money they made at their professions, yet would live comfortable existances in comfortable neighborhoods with libraries worth in the 10's and even 100's of thousands of dollars. This while I would keep the heat as low as I could tolerate and would go to bed soon after dark to save on electricity. And at the same time I felt guilty that there were people far worse off than I was. God...$80K a year is a LOT of money to me and to most Americans.

[LifeDuringWartime]

39. it's not about how much money you make

its about how much you save, and how deep into debt you are.

[Liberal Mommy]

41. We make "slightly" more than

90K a year and have 3 kiddos. I hardly consider my family rich at all. We are still paying back my husband's college loan. I'm a SAHM who uses coupons, shops at garage sales, and tries to cut corners any way I can. I know when I lived in TN the average pay was half what we make here. I hate living in Texas but we've tried for two years now to find a job to match my husband's salary and can't find one in any state.

[girl gone mad]

43. Welcome to DU, mom of 3.

I live in TX, too. I'd love to move to a blue state, but it's the high cost of housing in those areas that is keeping me here for now. I can't afford twice the monthly payment for 1/2 the living space.

We're cutting expenses and putting as much as we can into savings, and hoping that we can find a way out soon.

[sweetheart]

42. How long does the job last?

80K for 1 month is a nice cheque... 80K for 20 years is another
thing. The problem i've seen, is that these sorts of salaries are
not long term, and THAT is the source of poverty, as without the
consistency, the net income is less.

I've myself hit the top 1% bracket for a few months... and was then
unemployed for 6.... so it averaged down to zippo. In retrospect
had i made a lower wage, say 80K consistenly for decades, i would
call that "secure".. not "rich"... but firmly secure.

Just show me a job that is secure beyond next month...

[BamaGirl]

45. Hm, was just talking to my mom about this tonight.

She's in the over 100k category and says she is not paying less taxes. She's really pissed about this claim that Bush is saving her so much money too.

[judaspriestess]

47. Honey

I have been screaming this for a long friggin time.
I have a 100k income and I have yet to see any fucking benefit from these "tax cuts".
because I am single, no kids blah blah blah I get no help!!
Hell I actually went "Irwin Schiff" on them for a while as a protest but I decided I had to get back into the system since Bush gave the IRS permission to start going after people who owed back taxes. I didn't want to jeopardize my home.
Of course I hired an attorney to handle my issue:)