Lets Discuss Thomas Jefferson's Spiritual Beliefs

[Quixote1818]

I think Jefferson was so interesting:

In the book Jefferson and Religion by Eugene R. Sheridan, Jefferson’s beliefs are summed up in this way: “Jefferson’s demythologized version of Christianity, like so many other aspects of his life and thought, resists easy historical categories. It was anti-Trinitarian in its concept of God, Christian in its acceptance of the morality of Jesus, skeptical in its rejection of biblical revelation and church dogma, deistic in its conviction that the clergy had deliberately corrupted the pure doctrines of Jesus to serve their selfish purposes, rationalistic in its assumption that human reason was the only valid source of religious truth, and humanistic in its equation of religion with morality. In the end Jefferson probably best described his peculiarly eclectic faith when he observed of himself: “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”

[BlueEyedSon]

1. Amen

[Maat]

4. Thanks for the info.

He was no fundamentalist evangelical Christian who believed in national homage to a Falwell-type coffer. He hated the Church of England, and people being forced to pay taxes to a state's offical church.

And yet, if I hear 'but America is a Judeo-Christian nation ,' I'm going to scream.

A fundie relative explained to me that they need Israel and the Jews in place for the Second Coming. Then the Jews would get one last chance to convert. If not ...

This is pretty consistent with what Al Franken heard of their views, and that has been in the news and around DU.

I've sent them (the relatives) copies of key Jefferson writings, refuting their contention, and some of Madison's, but it doesn't help. They've been taken over by aliens, and logic and facts are not processed...

[Mojambo]

2. Jefferson's religion and spirituality

would be a nice place to start re-building the Democratic party's conception of morality and moral issues.

The Democratic party should begin fighting for a New Enlightenment focus on morality as it applies to government. Just like our founding fathers did.

[Quixote1818]

3. Contact Me as we are working on this exact thing for 527's

[e-mail]

[Maat]

5. Sounds like a great idea...

n/t

[Quixote1818]

7. Feel free to contact me as well

We need help getting this off the ground!

[e-mail]

[indigobusiness]

6. Jefferson's approach is a good lesson in intelligent analysis

of the issues, regardless of one's personal leanings.

If schools in America were not derilect in their duty, this sort of critical thinking would pervade the populace and fundamentalism would wither and die.

[Quixote1818]

8. I agree 100% and it's time to get our message out!

[jdj]

9. I like this Abe Lincoln quote on religion:

"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it."

[Quixote1818]

17. Here is another one from Abe

"When I do good I feel good; when I do bad I feel bad; and that's my religion."

[jdj]

18. Amen to abe, that's me as well eom

[smiley_glad_hands]

10. Sounds alot like me. eom

[BamaGirl]

11. I think Jefferson is best described (if you insisted) as a Deist.

There is a publisher who has a version of his bible out. I think it I saw it in the Bas Bleu catalogue. I keep meaning to order one because he cut all the pieces from his bible that he thought mysticism. I'm sure his end result is fascinating from both a religious and psychological stand point.

I'd love to see us really lay claim to Jefferson's religious independence and individuality. He understood that the individual must always be protected from majority rule. Hence his insistance on separation of church and state. I can't begin to tell you how many times I have had this argument with a rwinger. It is almost always a waste of breath.

[CornField]

12. ITA - most of the FF were deists

[Mojambo]

14. Jefferson's Bible

There is a publisher who has a version of his bible out. I think it I saw it in the Bas Bleu catalogue. I keep meaning to order one because he cut all the pieces from his bible that he thought mysticism.

I remember hearing that he actually left in two bits that weren't rational. One of them was about the ressurection of a child that Jefferson left in out of sentiment. He had previously lost children.

I can't remember the other one.

[Quixote1818]

16. Personaly I don't think you can take such an eclectic faith and put a

label on it. In some ways he was a Deist and in other ways he was not. I think he best describes himself when he says "I am in a sect of my own as far as I know." He was truly the poster child for Existentialism. His spirituality was his own unlike any others. How wonderful!

[RevCheesehead]

13. Appealing to Jefferson will not attract the Religious Right

Jefferson was a Deist. One can equate his views very easily with "The Jesus Seminar" - which lit a fuse of anger across the religious nation. Their goal was to pare down the Gospels to figure out what Jesus really said, and what was attributed to him by the authors of the gospel. Many people became very afraid of their work, because it rocked their "literal, inerrant Word of God" world.

I think that we would do better to frame the discussion around "Inclusiveness vs Exclusion by Right-wings"

Use of words like Religious Intolerance, Anti-Semitic, Anti-Muslem, and whatever points out the extremism of their views.

Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant statesman, but not an appealing model for Christian Spirituality.

[Quixote1818]

15. Yet he gave us all the ultimate freedom! A free mind! That accounts for

something! You do have a point though. If we start using Jefferson they will bring up Sally Hemmings and paint Jefferson as a Godless Humanist. It would be like putting Jefferson, one of our greatest founders up fo re-election and him loosing! What a sad world we live in today.

[highplainsdem]

20. I agree. He had too much to say about the pitfalls of theism -- and

can you imagine what he would say about today's religious right?

A couple of web pages about this:

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans/chapter_2.html

Here'a a quote from that page which sheds some light on Jefferson's beliefs:

Ten days later -- on the day that he had contributed so much to make immortal -- the Sage of Monticello breathed his last. On the same day, too, died John Adams. Politically at variance these men differed but little in theology. Writing to Jefferson on the 5th of May, 1817, Adams, giving expression to the matured conviction of eighty-two eventful years, declares.

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it."

To this radical declaration Jefferson replied:

"If by religion, we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, 'that this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it' " (Works, Vol. iv., p. 301).



http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/religion/jefferson-religion.html

Here's a good quote from this web page:

Why have Christians been distinguished above all people who have ever lived, for persecutions? Is it because of the genius of their religion? No, its genius is the reverse. It is the refusing toleration to those of a different opinion which has produced all the bustles and wars on account of religion. It was the misfortune of mankind that during the darker centuries the Christian priests following their ambition and avarice combining with the magistrate to divide the spoils of the people, could establish the notion that schismatics might be ousted of their possessions and destroyed. This notion we have not yet cleared ourselves from. In this case no wonder the oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations removed.

I'd love to see Falwell, Reed, Robertson, and the rest of those clowns respond to someone quoting these opinions of Jefferson's.

[LaReservaPr]

19. I like this one:

All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.

Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

[Blaq Dem]

21. Tom Jefferson enslaved his own children...

Remember Sally Hemmings? He kept the children they had together as slaves. He freed them after his death. Except for the freeing part, it was quite common in those days as sickening as it seems.

[Quixote1818]

22. Jefferson and slavery

Jefferson has been criticized for the keeping of slaves. In his own mind he knew it was an abhorrent system but felt that the wholesale release of a people unprepared for freedom in that particular society was equally irresponsible. He made his position clear with this statement, "The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submission on the other . . . Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever . . . But if something is not done, and soon done, we shall be the murderers of our own children . . ." This was the author of the words, "all men are created equal." Is it any wonder that the issue of slavery was to be an agonizing conflict for Jefferson all of his life? He was born into a family of privilege and a society where the holding of slaves was commonplace. He knew that the public at large would not allow slaves to live as free men, but he sincerely believed that they should be free. He drew up a Bill in his native Virginia to prevent the further importation of slaves which was passed and this was, at least, a first step to the eventual emancipation which was to come in future generations.