Why isn't anyone putting the blame where it is the most due?

[Nordic]

The media.

Let's face it, people in the red states depend on the mainstream media to give them information.

People in urban areas tend to have a lot more time to check stuff out on the internet because they're hanging out in offices more, and they're also more educated and tend to look around more.

Plus if you live in a city you're simply exposed to more information. Just walking down the street you're more likely to get more information than some guy who works in a WalMart in Tishomingo Oklahoma.

Do you seriously think if the media had done their JOB and reported the TRUTH about Bush, his cronies, PNAC, the war, Dick Cheney's energy panel, Linda Kwiatkowski, Sibel Edmonds, Valerie Plame, etc etc. etc. ..... that anyone would vote for Bush?

Fuck no. There are only two conversations worth having here.

1. Black box voting. Why the hell was this allowed to happen.

2. The media. Why the hell are they allowed to continue their hack jobs.

That's it. Everything else is a big fucking waste of energy and time.

[AuntPatsy]

1. About dam time, thats it folks, really the rest is all mute..

[sandnsea]

2. 3. Corporate America

That controls the media and the voting; and funds the Bama Biblethumpers who manipulate Christianity into a PAC.

[Mr. Blonde]

3. For the record

there is no Wal Mart in Tishomingo, Ok. The good folks in Tish have shown some backbone and won't let them come in.

[Nordic]

7. Hey that's cool! I worked on the wildlife refuge near Tish long ago!

back when I was in high school. I fell madly in love with a girl who lived on a ranch nearby. I always wonder what happened to her. She was very Christian. I was very young.

Anyway I'm glad they don't have one.

[Cleita]

11. Nevermind. They will get in.

I have lived in two separate communities, in two separate states, that fought Walmart tooth and nail. Yet they managed to get in. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[Pobeka]

4. 3. A functional education system.

People without critical thinking skills, and a basic understanding of history and government are easily swayed by false information from the media.

[kittenpants]

8. I really think that's part of it too--a lack of analytical capacity

along with gullible, soundbyte media.

[Nordic]

9. But if that's ALL you've got. Imagine if there were no internet

how informed do you think you'd be?

Now think of all the people who still don't have the internet?

[Pobeka]

12. You're right it can't be ALL. Your 1. and 2. are needed too. n/t

[rodeodance]

14. teaching to the test

with the new Federal curriculum--state standards to order to revieve funding from the Fed goverment==or the treat of being put on a "failing school" list,--teachers spend most of their time 'teaching to the test"--memorizing 'facts"!!!
The NCLB is NOT fixing our educational system.

[alwynsw]

23. Teaching to the test has been going on at least 10 years. It's not new.

I double-checked this with my wife who taught 8th grade until her recent retirement. That's one of the reasons she went ahead and retired. Her ability to both teach and teach for the testing required for Federal monies started going rapidly downhill in the '94-'95 school year.

[wtmusic]

5. Thank you, hallelujah, thank you

The media.

Media ownership. The biggest issue of the next four years, bigger than war, bigger than taxes, bigger than deficits.

When we break up media conglomerates and reinstitute equal time we will see sanity restored to government policy.

[alittlelark]

6. I have had those two conversations soooo many times in

the last few days..... some poo-poo, some LISTEN.

[idiosyncratic]

10. That's why "Outfoxed" should be required watching

along with "Fahrenheit 9/11"

I have friends who only watch Fox News. They don't know any different. They think that is the "truth."

And they have adopted the same angry attitude of the commentators, so questioning their "knowledge" is out of the question.

[JI7]

13. the media does suck, but

i still blame the people the most. the ones who voted on "moral values"(code for anti gay).

because on issues that matter Kerry won. kerry even cut bush's lead on who is tougher on fight against terrorism. kerry won moderates and independents. he got a huge turnout from democrats and won a landslide from young voters.

but there were still some people who voted on "morals". some of them even admitted to not agreeing with bush on the economy and war yet still voted for him because of "moral values".

[Nordic]

15. we still don't know if Bush won or not

There may have been massive voter fraud. That is why BBV is the #1 issue.

The fact that so many people voted for Bush is because the media TOLD them to.

The truth is NOT out there. Okay, it is, but you have to go looking for it.

The media is the enemy of democracy today.

We need to go after them, and big time!

[Nordic]

17. and again, this is what the media is TELLING you

How do you know that it's true?

Why are people on DU still trusting the media?

You can't.

[sandnsea]

24. The teevee told them so

In a sane world where the media was reporting honestly, this would have been a 70/30 election. The 30 being the militia and the fundies and a few boneheads. With most people these days, if it ain't on the teevee 101 times, it ain't so and it never happened.

[Nordic]

26. exactly. They want us to blame the fundies

because that's what my TV is telling me

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. If you hear something on your TeeVee and it doesn't sound exactly

right to you, wouldn't you find a way to verify it? Sure I blame the media, but if they are constantly bashing one candidate and always praising the other, that would send up a red flag for me. And really, how many people don't have access to the Internet now days? If you don't have a computer, I am willing to bet the public library in your small town does. I think people who are misinformed, ill-informed and uninformed have no one to blame but themselves. I am not giving these brainwashed bush*bot a free pass.

[Nordic]

18. sorry, a lot of people are really busy

Listen, I live in Santa Monica, California, which is one of the most wealthy and liberal places in the country, but I'm from the middle of the country. My folks were from Missouri, my cousins still live there, I went to high school in Oklahoma, and my Dad now lives in Minnesota. I lived in Colorado for years and also lived in Texas recently.

These people aren't stupid. They react to what they see. Most people who live in these areas feel that what happens is WAY out of their control FAR away from them. So they don't make the effort. They absorb whatever's around them.

A lot of people on DU think everybody who voted red is a freeper. Freepers are a bunch of obsessive psychopaths. Very few of your red-state voters are freeper-like.

They're just people doing their jobs, going about their lives, listening to what they hear being said at work, on the TV, and everywhere around them.

If the media would do its job, and show the images and the stories that they SHOULD be showing, these people would be HORRIFIED. These are people who are easily horrified, and the RW knows that. That's why they horrify them with images of men kissing at gay weddings, and pictures of aborted fetuses.

Because it works.

How are we affecting people in the red states? We aren't.

They see men kissing on TV and then they hear that Democrats are for that.

This isn't the democrat's fault, it's the media's.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. You know I do my job and I go about living my life

I have obligations and I still manage to keep informed of all that goes on around me. So sorry indeed! It's not the democratic party's fault, it maybe the media's fault. Indeed they haven't done their job of reporting the facts! But ultimately, it is the responsibility of every citizen to be informed! How does that grab you?

[theboss]

19. People in Texas don't work in offices?

Well, that's one way of viewing the world, I suppose.

[Nordic]

20. no, urban areas vs rural areas, smartass

the states with a heavy proportion of urban areas tended to vote blue.

Except for Texas.

[Eloriel]

21. The blame? You're wrong TOO

Yeah, we've got a real serious problem with the media, but it's definitely not our most urgent problem, OR the reason we "lost" this election. A small sampling:


Kerry Margins: Paper-ballot and Non-paper ballot states... (by TrutIsAll)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2612492

Take a look at these interesting numbers...... (FL)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2623514
Chart Links:


Graph of Florida by County by Voting Machine - Change from 2000 to 2004
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2615219&mesg_id=2615219

Denial, Anger, Action
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2619207&mesg_id=2619207

Calling all DUers - My husband is a Ph.D. statistician and
(see esp. post #17)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=26421#
DU Home Page (w/Graphs mentioned in opening post of thread): http://www.democraticunderground.com/ or see this thread:

The Exit Polls vs. the Actuals: Who do you believe-CNN or your lying eyes?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617461

Exit polls analysis versus reported vote count (by Faun Otter)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=11874&mesg_id=11874

In this thread we post all the evidence of vote fraud.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1333866

New tabulation of voting methods, vendors by population in state.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2617492

Still don't believe they stole it? Look here (by tkmorris)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1333746
table link: http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

Have Hard Vote Fraud Evidence!? - RESPOND HERE PLZ
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1624#1759

A Whole Forum of Various Voting Problems:
Report Voting Problems
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=201
Including: According to Florida voter data this election was stolen. PERIOD
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x1274


-----------------------------
Election-day footage from Michael Moore: Video the Vote
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x965827
Link: http://www.boingboing.net/2004/11/06/electionday_footage_.html

The statisticians who designed the exit polls
Do they accept that their results were off-base?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x27547

List of links to election articles
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=980

------------------

ALL DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND READ (re Col. Richard Prouty)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1333560#1333763

[Nordic]

22. well if you'd read my whole post, you'd see I list that as #1

and the media as #2.

Perhaps I should edit my headline.

:)

Nice work, by the way, Eloriel. I've always been fond of your posts.

[shance]

25. 4. Where is John Kerry?

Has he cut bait on Democrats? I hope not.

Now we have the opportunity to win this thing and all is very quiet, especially from him.

[Nordic]

27. I've been wondering that myself. Maybe Stanley Hilton was right

[lanparty]

28. Good luck getting THAT on the air !!!!

No, I'll stick with the BBVs!!!

[Nordic]

29. well that's the catch-22, isn't it?

Who's going to report on how bad the media is?

Well it's up to us, isn't it?