If we are right then no matter how * fucks up they will never lose again

[althecat]

**** NOTE THIS STARTED OFF AS A RESPONSE TO LTRS's - "This won't be popular, but here goes anyway...." - and indeed is also posted in that thread.. however as it ended up turning into a longish and vaguely lucid rant I decided to turn it into a thread of its own.... ****

If we are right then no matter how * fucks up they will never lose again

From what I have seen of the evidence in terms of Vote Fraud 2004 this is infinitely more widespread than anything before.

This time they did not simply confine themselves to stealing a few important races. From my impressions of this thing the fraud took place in at least 20 states possibly more.

This time they made sure that Bush had a clear advantage in the popular vote as well as in the state races and therefore a moral authority and loads of "political capital" to spend.

If we are right then you will no longer be able to elect your own candidates to run for office let alone elect them into office. There is considerable evidence that the race for the governorship primary in Florida between Reno and McBride was fixed.

What this means is that these people whoever they are not only picking the nations leadership they are picking Democratic Party leadership.

*************

To all of us here this is like a kick in the guts. Many of us have been working tirelessly to raise awareness, to tell the truth to Rock the vote and GOTV.

Bush meanwhile made things spectacularly easy for us by running the most corrupt administration in history. Lying the nation into a bitter and protected war and committing more and more serious PR blunders than any politician in history.

In the end a spectacular mobilisation occurred. According to the public record Kerry received 6 million more votes than Gore. That is more than a 10% increase.

AND THEN YOU STILL LOST.... I HAVE HEARD THIS BUSH WILL DIG HIS OWN GRAVE ARGUMENT MORE TIMES THAN I CARE TO RECITE, BUT WITH ME IT SIMPLY DOES NOT WASH. IF PEOPLE CAN SWALLOW THIS RESULT THEY CAN SWALLOW ANYTHING.

David Allen someone I respect greatly made the observation to me today that he is willing to beleive that there are 59 million bush loving fascists in your great country. He can beleive it because he meets them everyday.

Now admittedly I am a foreigner. But I can't beleive that. I have more faith in humanity. More importantly if you democratic activists start to beleive that then you will have already lost the battle as you will start to fear the very people whose hearts and minds are your life's work.

*************

Now time will tell but I am convinced that what I call "tailored vote shaving" took place in many touchscreen counties. That is some of the millions of extra bush voters were not bush voters at all they were kerry... what this means in practice is that all the DNC efforts came to nought because the fruits of your labours extra votes were simply stolen and given to *.

This means you literally led millions of democratic lambs to the slaughter. Who is responsible to those people?

If there are no recounts this year. And I expect LTRS is right there won't be. At least nothing serious... then the vote stealers will be emboldened. Getting a paper trail will do no good. A paper trail without a real ability to get a recount is about as much use as tits on a bull.

The fight over vote fraud is therefore one that the democratic party cannot choose to ignore. And around here it is one that every political activist needs to start thinking about. Seriously.

al

[serryjw]

1. We can't do it with out leadership.....

and we have none.

[Q3JR4]

2. Then SOMEONE needs to step up to the plate.

If the DNC doesn't provide adequate leadership then fuck them.

We have thousands of people online right here. We can organize political action from right here.

If we can't get outside help, then let US do it.

[althecat]

4. We can be our own leaders...

We do not need leaders in the traditional sense anyway.

The people in this forum have accomplished miracles in the past without leaders... the phenomena we know of as Bev Harris was created in these forums - her ground breaking research was conducted essentially by the folks that are here all around us today.... so lets just do it again. And this time lets not shut up till everybody in the USA knows what we know.

We have the energy, we have the connections, we have the numbers, we have the motivation, we have the grey matter, we have the networks and we have the guts.

As usual we are already organising ourselves - look at eloriel's efforts in the voting problems forums - and, of course, we have the internal criticism and debate we have always had (see Jack Riddler's post in the same forum).

Last time around we started late. It wasn't till mid 2003 that we managed even to convince a lot of people here on DU that this was an issue. This time around it is conclusively the topic d'jour day one post polling, and Salon.com is already picking up on what we are discussing.

All we need do is to cooperate, network, research, dig and then dig some more. In short just keep up the work and start achieving the results as we have in the past.

[serryjw]

11. We are at WAR!

In a war things get bloody. Moveon and PFAW all folded up there tent and went home when 'irregularities' were found. Documenting them is Bushit. This is just another Bushit investigation that will go no where..(remember 9-11 commission?) We are too nice, too willing to UNITE..F*CKEM I don't want to unite. Bushit said it twice this week. He wants to work with democrats as longs as we AGREE with his vision....WELL I DON"T!

TM is retiring...WE need someone with B*lls! We have no candidates, NE are a dinosaur for years...So our only hope is Bill Richardson. KKarl Rove was on MTP. They had the name,address and church of ever Evangelic in the battleground states...We had MM, PDiddy and the BOSS....not exactly the same
I would imagine the country will be voting almost exclusively on TT voting machines next time. We will never have another honest election.

[althecat]

12. Lets turn that anger into something positive.

There is no reason to lie down now. It is important to remember the positive. We have come a very long way on this issue in the last 18 months.

[serryjw]

13. Remember the POSITIVE?

Ohhhhhhh, please share it with me!

[Piperay]

3. That's right

I would actually be much happier if they actually had gotten that many people to vote for them. It would be hard to accept that so many people would really put the idiot in again but at least it would have been real people voting. Next time we would have a chance with the right candidate and issues of wining but if they are cheating I don't see a chance of us ever getting the Whitehouse again or probably any other offices either. :cry: I don't know how with them now having complete control we will ever have a clean election.

[Gelliebeans]

5. I have emailed anyone

and everyone I can think of regarding the irregularities. I have sent them to BBV.org and told them to view the 30 minute video (would be nice to see a link on the home page to it) and I sent a couple of letters to DNC and my state senators.
http://www.votergate.tv/

[LTRS]

6. Hopefully, after 2 or 3 more elections, democratic

leaders will get a fukkin clue. But up to this point, despite the extent to which it's been discussed, they don't seem all that interested. In fact, they don't seem to realize there is a real problem.

I know some of these politicians -- have had several discussions with them. I know their aids well. They think these are all just explainable glitches in the system that are being exposed because of such close elections in recent years. And worse yet, they think folks that are trying to expose wholesale corruption in the system are tin foil hate type people.

Anybody else here know any actual politicians? The ones I know are so uninformed on so much. It was really amazing to me when I first met some of them. I guess they don't sit around reading news and research like a lot of us do. You'd think they'd be some of the best informed people of all, but they are some of the worst.

And of course they have this utterly unbelievable tunnel vision that is so distorted and distinct - some people call it inside the beltway mentality, but you really have to witness it up close to believe it. This goes for most of the aids that works in DC too, actually. They live in their own little world... cons and dems alike.

On edit: I actually do know one senate aid who does believe their is wholesale corruption in the system. He is relying on the news to expose it. No other details though. Sorry, forgot about that before.

[althecat]

10. I fear that would be too late...

I am fairly certain you have had at least three hacked elections so far. 2000, 02 and 04. Three more would take us to 2010.

As for politicians being clueless. I am a political reporter of about 10 years experience down here in NZ. I suspect cluelessness is part of the job description from what I have seen... that said nearly every politician I have ever met is impressionable. That is they behave a bit like sheep and if they think a POV is fashionable or in their interests they are capable of adopting it even if it is diametrically opposed to what they have spouted forth for the previous decade or so.

This means that as your one clued up aid suggests the first target of our attention needs probably to be the news media rather than expecting Congress and the DLC to come rapidly to their senses. That said as we discovered with the BBV issue last year the media will not play ball until they are forced to do so. And they will not be so forced until we have done all the work for them already. And in saying that I really do mean ALL THE WORK...

:)

[illuminaughty]

7. My first night at MoveOn

I was working with someone who had been volunteering for a long time. She is a wonderful person. But she said to me "I think Kerry is going to take it in a landslide" I really wanted to be so enthusiastic, but I told her I believed he would if they didn't steal it.

I feel as if I did exactly what you said. Led them to the slaughter. So many were first time voters. The poor. So I take this personally.
Awhile back on here people were afraid we wouldn't fight. I suggested that we might not be able to say to what level we intend to fight. How stupid would that be?

So don't think it is not foremost on our minds this coup.

[LTRS]

8. Your screen name is ironic

... as we discuss this topic I am reminded of a comment by my ex-husband the other day. He was a Bush voter who finally came to see the corruption in the Bush govt and voted for Kerry. The morning after the election I saw him and he said "it's the illuminati at work"

[illuminaughty]

14. Yes, things are quite creepy

I have studied the Trilateral, Bilderberger for years. Before Clinton was elected. The more you think you know, the less sure you are. Thus my username. Are they just "naughty" and in pursuit of global power or is there really an Illuminati, which takes us down a real scary scenario.

I haven't read a Fiction book in so long, I had no idea that the Da Vinci code talks about Knights Templar, so I may have to break down and read it. As many copies as that has sold it must have people thinking about the reality behind "history" as we know it.

I hope your ex is wrong.

[DELUSIONAL]

9. Unless we get the voting machines tossed out and destroyed

(legally of course) -- we will lose and it will get worse.

I do believe that the GOP has manipulated even democratic races --as in your example in Florida illustrated.

No matter how hard we worked -- It didn't matter -- the election was decided before any of us fill out our ballots.

I've heard the number of 1/3 -- as in 1/3 of the of the precincts have e-voting machines.

In the voting districts (counties, cities or townships) that have voting machines -- the outcome will be ALWAYS in doubt.

We lost (we WON but we lost to vote fraud) -- not because we didn't try hard enough, or get enough people to vote, or spend enough time calling -- we lost because the vote was rigged. Every method that could be used was used to manipulate the vote -- because Rove wanted to "give" bushie the majority of the popular vote. I was hoping that we could get out enough voters to overcome the expected BBV vote fraud -- but Rove even planned for our get out the vote effort.

But these greedy bastards goofed -- they gave all the votes from "error", glitches and over-counts to bushie. None of these votes went to Kerry (people on DU are still looking for one of these that did go to Kerry) -- so far all benefits of the vote manipulation are in bushies favor.

The evidence for vote fraud will be cumulative -- Truth Is All -- has been posting the numbers -- each time explaining the fact that the exit polls and vote totals are way off in vote machine districts and that all deviations are in bushie's favor. The probability is way out in outer space. If bushie walked through a hall of slot machines -- the would all hit the jackpot! What are the odds of all the slot machines in a casino hitting the jackpot at the same time??

It was fraud -- and the Democratic leadership won't or can't see the clear case of fraud that we are seeing being built by so many DU researchers.

To JUNG's fans -- I wonder are we having a collective unconscious moment among ourselves that is becoming conscious???

[Nordic]

15. this WAS the election that proves anybody can win with BBV

Bush is the worst president ever. His crimes are unprecedented. His incompetence is unparalleled.

Everything he touches turns to shit --- literally goes up in flames, with thousands dead.

If we couldn't beat Bush, we couldn't beat anybody.

But as long as they have BBV, they can run a rabid dog for president and the rabid dog will win.

[seabeyond]

16. this is how i see it n/t