"Really" Supporting Our Troops

[are_we_united_yet]

Folks,

I am so utterly disappointed with this administration's decisions to invade Iraq, that it defies description at this point. By all accounts, this has been a blunder of colossal proportions.

In my opinion, we have a new and very dangerous issue confronting us now: The further de-stabilization of the middle east region of the world.

I liken this to the analogy of a careless Medical Professional who convinces a patient against their better judgment to have unnecessary surgery and inadvertently germinates an infection in the patient as a result. (Not a dig on medical professionals just the first familiar profession I could think of. Probably should have used a Computer Software metaphor instead). Now the patient must come to terms with a problem not of their making for their own survival. The "infection" in our case is the further de-stabilization of the middle east.

So now I ask for opinions and ideas of the smartest people I know, how we can assist in bringing this infection under control? Clearly, our military folks are between a rock and a hard place. I want to hold the decision makers of this administration accountable for this disastrous decision to enter into this conflict, yet I don't want to compromise the heroic efforts of our military as they fight the infection. I want to distance myself from the fake bumper sticker patriots which are all too common, but support the troops in a real, meaningful and pragmatic way so they may ultimately be extricated from this war in a dignified manner. If they have to be engaged in a conflict at all, they should feel that vast majority of their Country supports the reason we entered the conflict in the first place.

I ask because many things we write on this board can be seen by a large audience. It is easy to be frustrated by George W Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Colon Powell etc to name a few. Clearly they given us enough reason to question their judgment and the wisdom of their Foreign Policy.

Question is: What now? No matter how vehemently you disagree with this administration on their policy (believe me, I do), what we say, write and what we do is important in controlling the infection.

Perhaps I\we also need to give thought to how our posts help or hurt the current situation as well as being a tool to express our outrage.

Just a thought that occurred to me.

[Malva Zebrina]

1. totally flat toward that now

I don't think any are heroes at all, unless they have done something to rescue a comrade out of the line of fire, it is not heroic to advance and invade upon a defenseless country who had no means of defense at all. Can we stop glorifying the military? It only seduces young rambo teens into thinking it will make them real big heroes , part of the special forces that in movies always are the supermen and probably they think they will be superman amonst their peers also. Given that 100,000 civilian deaths have occurred, most of them women and children and most likely from huge bombing attacks from the sky, I cannot bestow the moniker of "heroes" on anyone. Sorry--people voted for what they wanted and they wanted this war--as did the military votes.

[are_we_united_yet]

2. I hear you Marianne

I'm disheartened as well. I opposed this war at every level I could have. Please dont interpret this as "falling in line".

I'm suggesting something a bit more strategic.

I am also not "glorifying" the military. The premise of my post is that you now have a secondary, more serious problem in de-stabilization and the primary issue (opposing the invasion of Iraq) is starting to be surpassed in importance. Put another way, I am concerned longevity of our civilization.

[Mikimouse]

3. I'm with you! I recently read an interesting work entitled...

Generation Kill! Those folks who think that our military is acting heroically in Iraq should read it as well. Gives new meaning to the concept of 'video game mentality'.

[are_we_united_yet]

4. If I may go to

the metaphor well once again, it is like taping down the accelerator on a car and being angry that it plowed into a crowd of shoppers. The military does what it is told even if it is morally and ethically ridiculuous. The military culture is to follow orders.

[Mikimouse]

7. I am not sure that the metaphor applies in this case...

I had nothing to do with 'taping the accelerator', in the first place. Secondly, to simply assume that our military consists of nothing but innocents sent to do something that they are ordered to do, is inconsistent with many of the statements coming from those very sources. I get the impression that many of them are actually enjoying the whole thing. I mean, it is comparable to the old 'Area 51' arcade game, where you simply shoot anything that is not you, and laugh while you are doing it. As far as doing what they are told, even if it is morally or ethically ridiculous, I am not sure that many of those folks even care anymore whether it is morally or ethically ridiculous. Sorry, just my two cents worth.

[are_we_united_yet]

10. But I appreciate your "two cents"

And I know this is a sensitive topic. I think the metaphor however is fitting. Yes there is a mixture of yahoos and reasonable people in the military and I imagine a great degree of lawlessness. But ultimately, the leadership controls the tone and macroscopic behavior.

I think we are now in a poor position thanks to * admin. And the threat that didn't exist now exists in an unprecedented manner due to de-stablization. We need control of that autmobile now.

[Mikimouse]

15. I appreciate your candor, and will defend your position...

as your own. True, the leadership has a large amount of control over the tone and the macroscopic behavior, BUT, I would interject, the attitudes that are clear in many of the issued reports (we're fighting SATAN in Fallujah' are not just irresponsible and sophomoric, but indeed reflect the position of many in the field. I am frankly dismayed at the inquisitorial perspectives that I see every day.
We are not going to seize control of that authomobile anytimes soon, thanks to shrieking RW media ('torture at Abu Ghraib is nothing more than fraternity hazing') and the unconscionable distortion of truth that is presented to us every day. WHat hope is there of seizing the controls when there are virtually no sanctions for misconduct? One day we hear that this or that soldier, or group of soldiers, is arrested for crimes against civilians, then the story disappears. A month later we are quietly informed that all charges have been dropped, or there was a mild slap on the wrist (with an additional wink, wink, nudge, nudge for good measure). I am quite sick of it.
I support the troops, I really do, insofar as I am doing whatever I can to get them home. On the other hand, don't expect me, after all that has happened, to worship at their alter. Won't happen. I saw too many of my friends and associates come back from Vietnam in body bags, because of the idiocies of the administrations in power at the time. Today's soldiers are the children of my generation, and they seemingly have learned nothing from the past.

[are_we_united_yet]

17. When I say we

I mean Progressive thinkers not Rove or his followers. The gist of this post is not to rehash our differences with * admin , nor to enumerate the repeated failures they have racked up as Skinner doesn't have enough disk space for that.

The aim was to:

1) Remind everybody that this situation has gone beyond a failed Foreign policy

2) As as result of number 1 , we need to change gears to look for a strategic way to to keep number 1 from escalating into worldwide social unrest. I think focusing the criticism on the architects of the Foreign policy is a much more effective strategy then bashing our military. The operative word in this post was supposed to be strategy.

Do you see what I mean? I.e., if there is a solution here, our military will almost certainly be part from operations to providing humantitarian support. Even if it is justified, my opinion is speaking collectively about our military in pejorative terms is not strategically in our best interest.

mike_c above said something very salient in his post that gave me pause. If his premise is true, then the situation may be unsalvageable in which case my whole premise is doomed. But if it is salvageable, we owe it to ourselves and our kids to be strategic. This is different than buying a magnetic ribbon and sticking it on your car, or toting meaningless market driven bumper stickers claiming your allegiance to America or throwing your support behind W even though there is no apparanet reason to. It is instead devising and forging a strategy to stabilize a deteriorating situation so that you may continue the fight for democratic principles.

[Mikimouse]

21. I don't disagree with your motives, in fact,

I support and commend you. I read mike_c's post and have the same take that he does. I don't consider this to be salvageable, at least not in positive terms. Like Vietnam, it will probably end with the US being forced out, but probably not just by other Arab nations. I see a few alliances being forged, even now, that may eventually have enough power to force us out. Then what? I have two children that would probably be gone in a new draft (both young women, but I don't think that will matter), and I am gravely concerned about the future of this nationand this society. Wehave gotten to the point that we hate each other, and this, of course, feeds the RW media machine, which in turn spews out more hatred for us to consume. We hate, not necessarily in this order:
1.the poor- lazy and unmotivated, assumed to be mostly minority (NOT!)
2.anyone who is Kristchun (including Christians)
anyone who looks Arabic (ahh, what's the difference between Sihks and Islamics anyway, they all look the same-ragtops!)
3.Homosexuals- Gawd knows, their equal rights would destroy the Murkin family-as if the Murkin family hadn't already famously succeeded at that destruction.
4. any foreign power that dares to speak truth to Murkin power
5. any group of people who dare to resist the dicates of Imperial Murkin rule.

We have always been an arrogant society, but have gotten far worse in the past 10 years. We sing our praises endlessly and assume that just because we say that we are great, it makes it so. I regret that we don't have sig. lines at the moment, because I have my own quotation that sums it up nicely.
We have the potential for being so much better than we are, and it is tragic that we have taken the turn that we have. I don't profess to know what will happen, but it does not seem to me that it will be pretty.

[are_we_united_yet]

22. Alas it won't be pretty.

I guess I'm fed up with our entire election process. I suspect you , like me feel, the election was fixed and stolen from us (again) and that Tuesday night- Wednesday morning went down in history as one of the most miserable moments in a Democrats life (certainly in mine).

The talk of 2006 and 2008 election leaves me bitter and predisposed to not participating (for what I say?)

So the only thing I can think of is to be more strategic to achieve what we want. This is where I'm hoping to get some ideas from you folks especially since we are all pissed off.

[Mikimouse]

24. Frankly, I was devastated by the 2000 debacle, and expected...

no miracles this time around. Not because Kerry was not a good candidate, he was an excellent candidate, but because I have lost hope in the ability of many Americans to actually look for truth. Everything in this society has become a gladiatorial contest, much like a national Jerry Springer Show. As long as it remains that way, nothing will change. Look at the Swift Boat bullshit artists, and how much they got away with, and you can see the tabloid mentality by which we are surrounded.
I voted for Kerry and would do so again, in 2008, given the opportunity, but unless something suddenly snaps the American people awake and forces them to do their own damned homework, nothing will change. They are happy just being fed their daily swill.

[are_we_united_yet]

26. I'm still

of the mindset that Kerry won this thing going away and that some significant voter tampering took place across this Country and is squelching a large group of the electorate. I unforunately cannot prove it. I can't think of a administration that more aptly deserved pink slips based on the performance of their Domestic and Foreign policies. Let alone polarizing Conseratives and "Liberals" (catch all phrase for a person with a reasonable political outlook I guess) , they are polarizing everybody.

This is why I feel strongly thjat is time to look at all of our options (many of which are unpalatable) and forge a strategy which will re-energize us and give us some political leverage, even if we perceive our team captain has bailed on us.

[Mikimouse]

28. I don't think that Kerry has bailed...quite the contrary...

I would suggest that when Kerry is quiet is when he is most dangerous. I would go so far as to say that he is probably working on something behind the scenes, without the spotlight to slow him down, and will emerge in a few days with something for us, be it good news or bad. Having said that, the only thing that I feel will energize us again will be the fianl validation of many of our complaints against the entire * administration. Lawsuits being pushed through to completion, criminal proceedings where we know they are needed, and the general acknowledgement that we haven't been just pissing in the wind for four years, because we have not. Be patient, the truth has a weird way of coming out at the most opportune times.

[are_we_united_yet]

29. Agreed. I believe

this is a very distinct possibility. In fact, it led me to use the word 'perceive' in that post. In fact, if it is true, it eerily related to my whole premise of pragmatically using our resources to promote our agenda. But I would like to have options either way.

[Mikimouse]

32. I agree with the mobilization of resources, such as they are...

I intend to support any plan that Kerry suggests, short of 'getting over it'. I will never get over my nation being destroyed and converted to a RW theocracy. There is a solution out there somewhere, but in order to be effective we have to wait until it becomes much clearer, otehrwise we are wasting enrgy by frenetically supporting things that will have little or no effect. I think we are of similar thought. :toast:

[Starlight]

39. "Can we stop glorifying the military?"

I totally agree with you on this. IMHO, the "oppose the war, support the troops" chant is ridiculous. If we didn't have thousands & thousands of troops willing to participate in this illegal war & enable the administration's plan to exterminate Arabs, it could never have happened. * couldn't do his dirty work without their cooperation.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cheezus]

5. this is what america wanted

and this is what americal will get

[mike_c]

6. I do not believe there is any "constructive" solution to Iraq...

...and that we therefore face a choice among destructive consequences, hopefully with the objectives of both minimizing the destruction AND acting as properly as possible within that framework.

The "war" in Iraq is not a war in any real sense, i.e. a conflict between beligerent nation-states, but rather is an illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign foreign nation. It is a war of aggression in the sense defined at Nuremberg, and therefore a crime against humanity. Every Iraqi death must be considered within this context, and that, more than anything else, governs the imperative with which we must end this misadventure.

We cannot "win" the war in Iraq. All we can do is prolong it. Returning to your analogy, only natural processes will resolve the "infection"-- our further intervention will only increase the damage and likely facilitate its spread.

The result of those natural processes-- possibly civil war, a partitioned Iraq, a new Afghanistan or Somalia ruled by rival tribal loyalties, and certainly an unfriendly trading partner in the global petroleum business (to the extent that Iraq can even participate in that business during the foreseeable future)-- are among the destructive consequences that are inevitable now that the U.S. has shattered and destablilized Iraqi institutions of governance. The dijin will not go back into the bottle.

I believe that the least destructive course is an immediate withdrawal-- an immediate end to the occupation. I doubt that Allawi would survive more than a week-- in fact, I suspect that he and most of the puppet government would leave with their body guards. Again, I believe that the outcome of the "infection"-- destabilization and ultimate collapse-- is inevitable, and that continuing the occupation only prolongs it and makes it worse for the Iraqis. It is clear that the U.S. presence in Iraq serves our interests, not Iraq's.

One further reason I support an immediate and unconditional withdrawal is the fundamentally illegal and immoral nature of the occupation. Over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been murdered in our names. I do not wish to lend authority to that slaughter-- not even tentitive authority in the form of a "phased" withdrawal. Every day that U.S. military forces remain on Iraqi soil further erodes our credibility as a nation of laws and treaties. Every single day. Each additional Iraqi death is a war crime committed in our names.

End it now.

[are_we_united_yet]

8. Unfortunately

I agree in part. We do "face a choice among destructive consequences". If you are saying the infection can't be cured, then game, set and match goes to mike_c on this debate.

But if you believe as I do the infection can be controlled, I'm not convinced an immediate withdrawal will lead to a new stratum of stablility. In fact I beleive it will draw the entire region into absolute chaos.

[mike_c]

13. "...it will draw the entire region into absolute chaos."

I think you are likely correct-- the long term geopolitical consequences of creating an unstable catalyst in the middle of a region already in turmoil are likely VERY VERY BAD. I also think they are inevitable, now that that catalyst has been created. I think the spiral of destruction has begun, and that the only essential choice we face is how long to participate in it and how much destructive momentum we want to impart before we make the equally inevitable decision to withdraw.

Only an absolutely despotic and iron fisted rule will keep a lid on in Iraq now. Either we continue to provide that service as we have to date during the occupation, or we install another Saddam Hussein (just as we installed the first), or we allow Iraq to either find it's own despot or dissolve along its own natural cultural lines. The first two "solutions" are anathema to any country pretending to respect "freedom," "democracy," and constitutional law-- although both are entirely consistent with past U.S. foreign policy machinations-- while the latter will certainly lead to further destabilization throughout the middle east, war between Turkey and northern Iraq, and so on. ANY solution will cause further death and destruction. We have started an unquenchable fire and it is going to burn, one way or another.

Again, the more important immediate question is what will our national role be in the consequent conflagration? Having committed the initial crimes, do we continue to compound them with further war crimes, and if so, with what justification?

If we accept that there is NO acceptable solution, i.e. that democracy, peace, and love are not going to spring forth from the oven of the occupation no matter how we tweak the recipe, then any continued presence, and the inevitable continuation of crimes against humanity for no achievable purpose, is indefensible. Only the most cynical exercise in U.S. geopolitics-- essentially imperialism-- can explain such a course.

[are_we_united_yet]

23. Yes.

Unfortuantely I don't have an answer for that one.

:(

[acmavm]

9. A big factor, and I mean a big one, will be how the 'coalition of the

willing', bush*s biggest lie that he used to support his actions (now that the WMD thing has been exposed), plays out. Blair is in more that a tad of trouble, Hungary is pulling out, Poland will soon be gone, the possibility of the US being alone in this mess is very real.

And as for further expansion of his crazy scheme of 'democratizing the Middle East', when it's the US alone putting up the money and warm bodies, this might not start to play so well with a lot of people.

The lie that he had a coalition is like the lie that he has a mandate from the American people. And when his grand coalition abandons him, and the US is all alone, things will not sit well. Further action into Syria and Iran may be in his scheme, but the EU and China and the Soviet Union, the really big players other than the US, may just throw a wrench into his war machine.

The potential for things to get ugly in the Middle East and belly up are the same as they were during Viet Nam. The only difference right now is that too damn many people think we have the support of other nations. That soon may not be the case. That's when I see things as getting real interesting. NASCAR Dad and Security Mom may not be so damn thrilled about seeing their kids sent to kill and die in wars of our own making that we have to go alone.

[are_we_united_yet]

11. I guess I would

have thought the "potential for things to get ugly in the Middle East and belly up" were made worse by this unecessary invasion.

[acmavm]

16. Most definitely the invasion was a horribly criminal act based on lies

and deceit, but this a fait accompli now. We have to live with it unless anyone can think of a way to turn back time and undo Shock and Awe.

It's the future I'm talking about.

[are_we_united_yet]

19. Agreed.

And I appreciate your comments.

[acmavm]

20. I think that until we develop a coherent plan and put it into action, we

will remain screwed. The casualty counts were under-reported during the first term of the unelected fraud. Just think about how the news will be censored now. We've been smart enough to look for the truth outside of the media in this country. We'll have to be doubly vigilant now because they've (the US media) all gotten back in line like good little soldiers. The ones that had the intelligence and decency to support Kerry are now marching to the tune of the goose steppers running this country. The average American is too stupid and too lazy to actually make the effort to find the truth. So somehow, someway, we have to make sure it's in their faces whether they like it or not. Reality is always an ugly thing to have to face when you've tried to hard so hard to avoid it. We need to make it impossible for the masses to delude themselves any longer.

[are_we_united_yet]

12. self delete

duped

[markomalley]

14. Expose the lies

The troops are brainwashed zombies. They are trained to be republican, just as they are trained to be thugs, murderers, and rapists. It is a sick culture, the military, and it needs to be exposed. Support the troops? Make them all civilians. I still support Kucinich's idea of a Department of Peace. We need to look to constructive solutions for the world's problems, not military threats. The only way we will embark on that course is to disband the military. Support the troops? Support them to become human beings.

[are_we_united_yet]

18. "We need to look to constructive solutions .."

That was the gist of the post.

[markomalley]

34. and that's my constructive solution

expose the lies to the soldiers...and about the soldiers...not just the shrub's culpability, but their own personal responsibilities.

[are_we_united_yet]

36. Do you think that hasn't happened?

Or are you saying efforts such as F-911 and blogs like DU, Commondreams Truthout TomPaine are not good enough? Do you think activism by Rock Music groups, hip-hop artists, actors like Danny Glover aren't enough? Do you think groups like Veterans against the Iraq war are not enough? Efforts of Max Cleland? Anthony Zini? Abu Graib prison exposure?

Seriously. I'm looking for real substantive approaches here, not to inflame people. That is too easy and is a waste of everybod's time.

I'm not suggesting I have the answer either, but I'm too distressed to fall back on sweeping idealogies that have no real meat. We need real, creative suggestions that have a prayer of being effective. It is my opinion hurling insults at the troops is going to be counter productive to our strategy, no matter what it is.

[markomalley]

38. No, because these are all tagged toward

not blaming the troops and blaming the administration. Well, I am saying that you need to show them the fruits of their labors. F911 was very forgiving of soldiers (in fact, some of the soldiers who appeared later got in big-time trouble -- well publicized, too). How many soldiers come to look at DU, commondreams, truthout, etc.? A few, yes, but not all that many -- and those who do are likely already the converted. Same thing with the rock'n'roll music, etc. Blame the administration but not the troops.

Well, the shrub was only a tx governor during Kosovo and there were plenty of crimes committed during that conflict -- I know, I was there. But we lionize the commanders from that conflict (Clark, Short, et al). It was just as illegal as Iraq was. And ya know what? innocent civilians were killed there too. But God help the person who spoke out about that one. When my eyes were opened, I just about got court martialled over it. So I shut up and got out at the first possible opportunity.

My point is this...the ones who take the initiative to come here or to another progressive site are likely to already have problems with this. The ones we need to get are the ones who are walking around in the fog. Seriously.

They need to be shown the pictures of the kids with no arms and no legs. They need to be talked to about how harmful their chosen life is to the world. Not to personally attack, but to educate and inform.

That is a matter of holding accountable. I know that the majority had no part of atrocities. But they all contribute.

Does that clear it up some?

[are_we_united_yet]

41. I wasn't there

If you are a military person, then I cannot debate with you from a position of experience.

I'm not however willing to condemn the military. If that is your and others strategy here, your entitled to it but count me out. For the simple reason, what do you want the outcome to be? Reduction in participation? Mutiny? As you probably already know, the military is inclined to do what it is told rather than how individuals feel.

No, the blame rightfully belongs with the leaders of the military and the Administration and we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

The soldiers in Iraq don't need pictures of Civilian carnage, they are there to witness it first hand. How many "non-fatal" gunshot wounds and suicides have we had over this conflict?

However I do agree on one point you made which I think is rather brilliant. I think a healthy indoctrination of the airwaves and media channels of the carnage in Iraq should be a campaign that we should wage on the Christian right, similar to their tacticis on abortion.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. It's a lost cause. The troops are cannon fodder.

They are there killing time and killing Iraqis in a futile effort to save Bush's reputation as a "war leader".

They are now resorting to the iron-fist school of diplomacy which will only make the situation worse and the trap more bloodily difficult to get out of.

Bush and his imperial cronies are out of options save more force and bloodshed, which is self defeating.

The surviving troops will come home when the Iraqis (and, perhaps the Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians) throw them out and/or the American people finally realize that they lost the war the moment the first troop crossed the border into Iraq.

There is no "exit plan" because there is no exit.

[are_we_united_yet]

27. Well

If you can say assuredly that there is no exit strategy and that there is no combination of political and diplomatic efforts resulting in a political stabilization of Iraq for any reasonable period of time, then I am forced to rethink and perhaps retreat from the premise. Namely, it doesn't seem logical to prolong the inevitable at the cost of lives.

I just have not been convinced that is a lost cause or even if it is, what our public position on it should be and how does it support our agenda as people who feel thay got screwed on Tuesaday.

This situation is sort of like bad credit to me in a way. The best way to clean up your credit rating is not to have a bad one in the first place. But once you do, the solution is a rather nasty period of time requiring fiscal discipline, probably at a time when you need credit the most.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Well, you better start rethinking.

The "period of time to clean up the mess" you use as an analogy, works only if you can clean up your mess without contributing to it.

In the case of Iraq, and the whole Middle East, there is simply no way of making the books balance.

The more you pay, i.e. sending more troops, destroying more towns, killing more civilians, the more in debt you become.

Kinda like pumping gas into a gas tank that has a hole in it that expands the more you pump.

Iraq is a lose/lose situation because we absolutely refuse to address the real issues there and in the Middle East.

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

The propping up of corrupt oil states (Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, etc.

The refusal to address the grievances of the vast majority of common people throughout the middle east. Not religion, but poverty, ignorance and hopelessness.

The course we are now pursuing will bankrupt us and cost thousands, or tens of thousands, or hundredes of thousands of lives, if not abandoned.

The naive idea that Europe is going to come to our rescue is absurd. Why would they want to board an obviously sinking ship? In the most "practical" political/economic terms, there isn't any payoff for them.

As to the "coalition of the willing", they are busily lining up and announcing that they're getting out of Dodge as quickly as they can.

The handwriting is on the wall and it says, "You lost. Admit it."

[are_we_united_yet]

31. Great

I have to ask, did you read the original post?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Yes I did. That's why I responded to it.

I appreciate your effort to find a way out. To DO something. As a veteran, and as a veteran of the anti-war movement in the '60s, I'll pass along something a PoliSci professor told us when we were "disrputing" his class by demanding that he talk about the war.

He was sympathetic and against the war, but he said, "The war will end when enough bodybags come home and the average American has to start reaching for his wallet to pay for it."

As it turned out, that's exactly what happened. The cost of the war in lives and money finally provided an "exit strategy". Pack up and get out.

[are_we_united_yet]

35. I honestly wasnt trying to offend you. I guess the reason

for me asking was I specifically asked for suggestions of how we might strategically promote our agenda as people who opposed this war. Given the mass protests that have occurred prior to this disastrous invasion, it doesn't seem likely we'll formualte a strategy be able to bring our troops home. If we pack them up and bring them home, there is a further Middle East stability issue the world needs to contend with. That issue alone is potentially more consequential than in the 70's given the rumored proliferation of nuclear weapons and nuclear technology.

If you are waiting for me to disagree with you on the wisdom of this foreign policy, that won't happen. If you are waiting for me to say more troops more fire power to bring this thing to a close, that won't happen either.

At this point, the military constituent must either be diluted or supplanted through some sort of diplomatic effort to get some stability. What can we do? Thats the gist of the post.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. No offense taken or perceived.

It was a fair question. I didn't reply directly to your post as to "what should be done?".

I agree that a diplomatic effort will ultimately be the answer. If a solution is even possible to the middle-east quagmire. But, it won't be done by us. We are too closely allied and dependent on the oil interests and Israel. If it is to occur, the Europeans must act as mediaries to resolve the disputes. In my opinion, Iraq is almost a sideshow, albeit a very dangerous and calmitous one that will result in our being put out of the picture of diplomacy completely.

As to what should we do? "We" as progressives and peace seekers, I mean, not the American government. We should keep up the pressure on receptive members of congress and on the media to report what is really going on there. As BushCo tries to win by using ever more brutal tactics, we should demand investigations by congress into the incompetance of the military, the lack of realistic foreign policy in the ME (and, everywhere else), the economic chicanery of the capitlists like Halliburton and the "defense industry, etc. And, demand that the media start showing the real cost of the war in terms of bodies, wounds, rubble, and the impact of the iron fist on Iraqis, instead of the usual prettied up crappola of noble soldiers pursuing a noble cause.

And, we will have to be patient and determined to not let the war(s) sink into the comfortable oblivion of page 3 or the latest cure for toenail fungus that the media adore.

The idea is to get the American people aware of and sick of the war.

[Karenina]

40. Support the troops.

Get them the fuck out of there.

[are_we_united_yet]

43. Thanks

[doreme]

44. We might try

not being enablers of the administration and the troops who are occupying Iraq illegally. Being honest and letting it be known that we don't support this *war* and don't consider those who are prosecuting it to be heroes would be a start.