Optiscan does not read certain inks: Guess who got those pens?

[FullCountNotRecount]

ON AAR Yesterday: Alcohol based inks do not read on most optiscan machines. According to a pollwatcher in AZ the GOP was giving Native Americans the unreadable pens. In NM they didn't have enough provisional ballots or gave provisional ballots instead of absentee.

[Cobalt Violet]

1. What's nex from these people! Small Pox Pens!

[idiosyncratic]

2. Is this for sure?

I voted absentee and there was nothing in the instructions about the type of pen to use.

------------------------------------

[KittyWampus]

3. I'd Need Verification On This Story Before Repeating It...

wouldn't put it past them.

[City Lights]

4. I wondered about the proper pen to use.

Instructions that came with my absentee ballot were confusing. One piece of paper instructed me to use a No. 2 pencil :eyes: while the actual ballot instructed me to use a black ball point pen. I changed my mind about a judge, so I took my spoiled ballot to an early voting place where I received a replacement. The pen in the booth was felt tip. The pens in the booths have always been felt tip.

I wondered what happened to the Native American vote here, and how the Dems could have lost ground since the 2000 election. Now I know. :grr:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[City Lights]

8. I just did.

;-)

[RedEagle]

6. Ink DOES make a difference

First I've heard about alcohol-based inks, though.

If the scanner is infrared, one of the older models, then it reads a carbon-based mark- therefore, why they tell you to use pencils. Some inks also contain carbon and can be used but you have to know which ones have it.

Most poll workers probably don't know this.

People who mark their ballots in ink are probably taking a security step- but you have got to use the right ink.

The newer, visable light scanners are not supposed to be so picky, but colors can be a problem.

Giving more pause for questions, is that invisible ink can be carbon based. I'm told if you know what you're looking for you can detect it but you'd have to be looking for it. It's not that uncommon and my local print shop knew all about it, it's used for ID'ing some things.

I suppose if you had infrared scanners, pre-marked (but invisible) ballots, and the wrong pens handed out, that could be one form of fraud. And that might work with the alcohol too, but I'd have to check it out.

[necso]

7. I was given a pen to use --

when the instructions explicitly called for a #2 pencil only.

I was told that it was "ok", but I figure my vote was never counted. -- That'll teach me to insist on a paper ballot. (Next time I am taking my own pencil -- if paper ballots are even available then.) I suppose that I could research "spoiled" votes in my county -- but I would trust those numbers like not at all.

Every trick in the book -- and a few new ones.

We need a massive organization to track every step of the voting process from "ballot" creation to ensuring that the vote count matches the voting log count -- and that votes get accurately counted.

Of course with evoting that last step will prove rather difficult. But if we had a big organization (precinct and "block" captains with lists of "their" dem voters) we could at least do our own check on how dems (said they) voted. Hell, we ought to know what vote count is to be expected from our own even before the voting. ("Block" captains make sure that "their" voters get out no matter what, BTW.)

It is illuminating to see that the problems with voting in 2000 have led to a system even more untrustworthy.

I suppose that this should have been expected.

I don't think that our (dem) leaders are deceiving us, I think that they are naive and too willing to believe that the other guys are being straight forward. -- "Worldliness" ought to be a litmus test for any leaders that we support.

Now I figure it's either grass roots or a cardboard box and 6 feet of dirt.

[harmonyguy]

10. What type of ballot did you have?

fill in the bubbles or connect the lines?
Ok now, time for the table, chairs, and one lighbulb in a smoky smokefree room - interrogation time......

Do you remember the type of pen?
Ball point, felt tip, gel pen?
By any chance do you remember the brand name?

Before you were given the pen did you indicate you're party preference?

Did you notice whether or not there were different types of pen or pencil available?

At what County and precinct did you vote? (You can PM me with this, if you don't want it public)

And for verification, what was your great-grandmother's maiden name?
Ok, Ok, I'm Canadian - we're usually told to lighten up.
All the other questions ARE serious though.
HG

[harmonyguy]

9. If that's the case - check for unusual undervotes in that area

However, if there aren't massive undervotes, AND if the scanners used were infrared (older) then the ballots could potentially have been premarked with infrared-absorbing ink.

As I understand it, the issue is less whether or not the solvent in the ink is alcohol, but more whether the ink's color is a dye or a pigment. The pigment is carbon-based, while the dye is not.

HG

;-)