What was Clinton's logic on the DOMA?

[wuushew]

It seems to me the prosperous 1990's were the preferable time to hash out these issues, not the present era which is rampant with war, terrorism and voting fraud. You leave shit like this to the states and all they do is pass anti-gay legislation with NO hope of the "fair faith and credit" clause of Constitution ever being used with all the branches of government packed with dominionists. Does Bill Clinton feel any stirring of guilt or idealogical leaning other than to this satisfaction he gets through compromising liberal ideals? Do not tell me he would have lost to Dole. The "master" politician got 379 electoral votes and 49% of the popular vote.

Here is the Senate voting record, I have highlighted some of the more interesting votes in red.

YEAs ---85
Abraham (R-MI)
Ashcroft (R-MO)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brown (R-CO)
Bryan (D-NV)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (R-CO)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cohen (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Exon (D-NE)
Faircloth (R-NC)
Ford (D-KY)
Frahm (R-KS)
Frist (R-TN)
Glenn (D-OH)
Gorton (R-WA)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grams (R-MN)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Heflin (D-AL)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kempthorne (R-ID)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nickles (R-OK)
Nunn (D-GA)
Pressler (R-SD)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Roth (R-DE)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Shelby (R-AL)
Simpson (R-WY)
Smith (R-NH)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Warner (R-VA)
Wellstone (D-MN)

NAYs ---14
Akaka (D-HI)
Boxer (D-CA)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Moseley-Braun (D-IL)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Pell (D-RI)
Robb (D-VA)
Simon (D-IL)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 1
Pryor (D-AR)

[freetobegay]

1. Same logic it was for getting a blow job from Monica.

[sandnsea]

2. What about Wellstone?

Why does he get a pass on this?

[Freddie Stubbs]

4. He was cannonized by some here on DU when he died

Only his saintly acts were remembered, his sins have been conviently forgotten.

[Deja Q]

12. He didn't from me.

I also recall saying that instead of running for a third term (something he promised not to do), he should have gotten someone with his ideals as a replacement.

Much good it did him by running anyway.

[Bucky]

3. He was thinking that they'd fucking slaughter us with this issue

Politics is about power and power is measured in votes and money. That's why "small government" Republicans get all intrusive on this issue. They can scare people into giving them votes and money using this scare tactic. Never ever expect anything different.

The politics of selling out our gay brothers and sisters is reprehensible. It is also necessary if we want to win.

[saynotogop]

5. It was veto-proof

I don't know the last time a president vetoed a bill he knew would be overridden.

It just doesn't happen.

[wuushew]

7. It was veto proof becuase dumbass Democrats sold out to homophobes

When the Senate goes super majority Republican then tell me about veto proof bills.

[w13rd0]

6. Not just this...

...the Senate, EVERY MEMBER OF IT, has had ample opportunity to earn bad marks. NONE stood with the CBC to contest 2000, how many opposed the appointment of Ashcroft? The Senate is a monolithic body that doesn't reward courage or integrity.

[JohnKleeb]

8. how many opposed Ashcroft? most of them actually did

I believe only 8 voted to confirm.

[wuushew]

9. Feingold regrets his vote on that

I am just premptively protecting Feingold who is otherwise a just and decent Senator.

[JohnKleeb]

13. I won't go after Feingold for that, because its his philosophy

but people act like the dems caved in on Ashcroft, 84% voted against it. I don't have any beef with Russ, what I do have beef is with people giving people passes for stuff that they won't give others. Feingold is fine with me, its just what many of us dont get is even our biggest champions don't always vote our way, is Wellstone to be damned to hell for this vote? no, I say nor should he for his patriot act vote.

[sandnsea]

14. You poor kid

You're in for a hell of a life kiddo. You're too damned smart and logical. No room for unhealthy rants and wild goose chases, from the right or the left. Not alot of room to maneuver if you don't like extremism these days. If people are driving you nuts, seek out somebody who can help you find peace with that. Then clue me in. :)

[Inland]

10. "Compromising liberal ideals"? Maybe if there WAS one involved,

Clinton would have fought it.

But I see DOMA as stating that the Full Faith and Credit Clause would not force the backward states to accept the same sex marriages performed in Massachusetts--and I don't see how that's a compromise of LIBERAL IDEALS at all, unless the very existence of federalism is a compromise of liberal ideals.

Now, Bush is using the fear of judges making the FFC clause work to instill gay marriages everywhere to mobilize a conservative right wing effort to amend the constitution to BAN gay marriages, and appoint nothing but the most reactionary of judges.

Frankly, the correct strategy is to vote for DOMA and to proceed, state by state, to campaign for gay marriage. True, Alabama and Mississippi might not go for a hundred years. But Massachusetts would have remained safe for gay marriage, and we could have picked up a state or two this decade. Now I think not..

[wuushew]

11. Federalism is a force of good in the world

the version of American history I revere is based on the U.S. Constitution and its protection of minorities, authority to regulate trade and hold the states subservient to the national good.

Do you wish to revert to the impotent Articles of Confederation? The quintessential spirit of America originates from 1787 not the naive Jeffersonian date of 1776. Progress more often than not is made at the federal level not the state level.

[Inland]

19. The federal level is in control of the enemy

and it seems that the gay marriage strategy was to institute it in one state and then drag all the others along under the full faith and credit clause. Of course, nobody actually said so, but its clear enough.

Result: nothing. The conservatives control the federal government, and therefore judicial appointments, so there won't be a FFC ruling forcing gay marriage through judicial rulings, and the conservatives have redoubled their efforts at a federal BAN on gay marriage in EVERY state.

It was a dumb strategy, if strategy isn't too good a word for it. I would have settled with gay marriage in Alabama two generations from now to protect the rights of Massachusetts citizens and the powers of the Massachusetts state government to be on the vanguard.

[wuushew]

15. kick

:kick:

[lcooksey]

16. Gays are expendable

Just like when he advised Kerry to back anti-gay marriage amendments to win votes in swing and red states.

[wuushew]

17. That is why Clinton needs to STFU

Far better Democrats exist, both old and new progessive ones. Clinton has not run for office in over 8 years so why should his advice on anything be more relevant than any one else's?

[OneBlueSky]

18. political expediency . . . nothing more, nothing less . . . n/t

.

[fujiyama]

20. Actually

there were some more senators on the list I found interesting:

Harkin (D-IA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)

There were some relatively progressive senators voting Yea on this bill. It is disappointing.

On the other hand I am surprised that Robb, Kerrey, and Feinstein voted against it.

[Xenus Sister]

21. NAY: Moseley-Braun (D-IL), Simon (D-IL), cool!

Good times.