on gay marriage and politics ...

[Pepperbelly]

I have heard more than enough about this issue and it is time that the truth was told.

This issue is fake.

It is an issue ONLY because the smash-mouth, lying demogogues in the gop MADE it an issue so they could appeal to the homophobic tendencies present in the population and gain a few more votes for their agenda of theft, lies, and murder.

There IS no issue here.

The Massachusetts courts did what they did in response to their state constitution. Period.

But these twisted, hate-filled fucks spun it into the biggest bugaboo in creation.

No, we should not embrace the position of these monsters with their homophobia and mysogeny. Why would anyone here even suggest such a thing?

Do not let he deceptive legions on cable news lead you to the wrong conclusion. This fucker's "mandate" is tricked up voting machines in Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico and heavy support from a number of crypto-racists in the South and in Texas.

[seraph]

1. Referendum 69 - Hold neochristofascists to the Sanctity of Marriage!

[vinny9698]

2. The homo card will be played in 2006

President George W. Bush will push to amend the US Constitution to ban gay marriage in all 50 US states, top White House political strategist Karl Rove told US television.

[lanparty]

3. Those fuckers control the topics ...

Look the media LOVES sex, scandal, etc... Their first and foremost ratings whores. Gay weddings get good ratings!!! You can sell that in a news promo!!!

Take it off the table. The ONLY thing you're doing is codefying the status quo. Than we can talk about REAL issues that affect 95% of Americans instead of 5% of Americans.

BTW, I know I'm going to be called a homophobe. So why even bother???

[Bluebear]

5. Being gay is not all about sex, it's about love

I am not calling you anything, I just call you out on your constant use of the "5%" number.

[Political_Junkie]

6. You wouldn't feel that way

if you were in the "5%" which, by the way, is more like 10%. Nice to know you've got my back, not. Who you gonna scream to when they come for you?

[lanparty]

21. I've read from those in the 5% ...

I've read from some in the 5% that the GMAs are being TOO aggressive and believe that this will end badly.

I did some research, And I found the justification for 5% compelling. As opposed to the gay advocacy groups number of 10%. If they had that number, they'd be a LOT more influential!!!

[noiretextatique]

10. you really didn't get the gist of the post

WE didn't put it on the table, they DID.
republicans understand that they create reality...democrats don't seem to get that yet.

[Political_Junkie]

4. Thanks, Pepperbelly,

it's nice to know there are some here at DU that are not willing to sell us upriver for a few votes. You are absolutely right about the real "mandate". :)

[Pepperbelly]

7. We should NEVER throw anyone to the wolves ...

And that is just what these rat-bastards do and what they want everyone to do with their creationist's social darwinism (is that irony or what?)

[Bluebear]

8. We sink or swim together. Abortion is not a consideration for me....

for instance, being gay, but that did not stop me from posting "The Magdeleine Laundries" here ad nauseum before the election and talking about Bush's plan for "Maternity homes for unwed mothers" to my friends....being a Democrat used to mean pulling for the least able among us to fight for themselves. Things have changed :(

[George_S]

12. "Maternity homes for unwed mothers"?

What's that about?

[Bluebear]

13. Bush mentioned it in TWO debates

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/08/sunday/main567365.shtml

Read this story for starters. The idea is to have group homes for unwed mothers where they WILL carry their baby to term to be adopted out since Roe v Wade will be overturned.

[noiretextatique]

14. see the movie "the magdalene sisters"

warning: it will piss you off.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pepperbelly]

23. MY side?

Which side might that be?

[Pepperbelly]

25. yoooo-hooooo! MY side???????

What does that mean?

Are you perhaps jumping to conclusions?

Please let me know which "side" I am on.

[Pepperbelly]

26. since you won't own up to your own conclusion-jumping, then riddle me this

Who else are you willing to throw over the side to appease these monsters? The young people? The elderly? Women? Labor? Jews? Black people? How many do we throw over the side until we get to your group, whatever that might be.

My group is a long way from getting tossed. Middle-aged white males in the south are not unwanted in the Democratic Party, even old divorced guys with little interest in much besides a decent supper, a good night's rest and a healthy defecation in the morning.

:eyes:

[noiretextatique]

28. so...you want gay people to stay in the closet to appease bigots?

i don't think you are a homophobe, but i don't think people are going to hide to appease bigots either. why should they? the people who i know who got married in san francisco are all democrats.

[noiretextatique]

9. beautiful, Pepperbelly...that's as clear as it gets

they manufactured this issue to snare the homophobic vote and create a phony "debate"...and it worked, sadly.
one correction: you forgot the cryto-racists all over the country.
there is no mandate
there is no moral majority
there is no victory

[lanparty]

24. YOU are trying to change the status quo ...

YOU are the ones who STARTED the debate.

I'm not saying it's the wrong argument. I'm saying it's poorly timed!!!

[noiretextatique]

27. aren't we ALL trying to change the status quo: IT IS FUCKED!!!!!!!!

poor timing...that's what white people said to blacks in this country for years when we were being strung up by our fellow citizens. it's never the right time to speak truth to power...never.
you still don't get it, do you: GAYS DID NOT FORCE THIS ISSUE.
if you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at gavin newsome.,,he's the one who got some political mileage (and national attention) from this issue. if you want to be pissed, be pissed a the republican party, the people who targetted this issue because they knew could snare some dumbass democrats with this issue.
why blame gay people? they simply took advantage of newsome's:
1) grandstanding
or
2) courgeous stance

depending on who you talk to.

[lanparty]

29. Ask the black folk if they relate ...

... see what their answer is!!!

[Pepperbelly]

30. now THAT is comedy.

Are you serious?

LOL

[noiretextatique]

32. Oh Pepperbelly: the myth is that blacks are more homophobic than whites

i've heard this myth a lot, of late.

[Pepperbelly]

33. I just found it ironic that he suggested that you should ...

ask black people. Perhaps a little internal dialogue us never a bad thing for any of us, eh?

[noiretextatique]

34. i will speak to my inner homophobe tonight

we haven't chatted in over 20 years :D

[Pepperbelly]

35. this poor guy ... he has some stuff to wade through ... I speak out for...

decency and common fucking courtesy and this guy decides I am a gay activist who tried to push through my agenda before the time was right ... when the gayos have enough of the youth of America tricked through fag scoutmasters to make it politically palatable when they SHOVE it down our throats.

Or something.

For the record, there are probably many people who would be amused this gentleman's label of me, including my children, my ex-wife, my girlfriends and myself. At my age, my greatest attraction is for a good supper, a good night's sleep, and an easy morning constitutional.

:D

[noiretextatique]

36. i will give you an honorary pink triangle

:D and though i am gay, the marriage issue was not really important to me until the republicans made it such an issue. in that sense, like you, i acted like any decent person would: speak out for decency and common fucking sense.
it's sad that some think anyone who believes gays and lesbians as\re regular citizens must be a gay activist. others have made the same charge, so-called "liberals" all, that gay people were being "selfish" for taking advantage of the opportunity gavin newsome gave them.
for all the people who will sell out gays, people of color, women...whomever...to get a few votes
:puke: :puke: :puke:
when they come for you, i hope i'm still around to have your back.

thanks for posting this thread, Pepperbelly...it was a very decent thing to do.

[noiretextatique]

31. i'm black...so are most of my friends, and of course, my family

so which black people are YOU talking about? the ones the media and the republicans keep telling you about? gore got 90% of the black vote, and kerry approx. 83%. blacks still overwhelmingly supported democrats.
perhaps there are less black homophobes than you seem to think...something the media and the republicans don't seem to understand.

[anakie]

11. what are these people scared of

two people who love each other wanting to share their lives together. Why does it affect them. Most of these people wouldnt know a gay person if they fell over them and in all likelihood work and play with gay people.

But like someone said get it onto a talking point and it eclipses the real issues.

[vinny9698]

15. The republican party has made it a sin to get votes

[PurityOfEssence]

17. Sex is bad. Imagine what they think of "weird" sex.

Puritanism wants there to be no joy except that coming from god; it's a wonder they even tolerate sports. This is why everything enjoyable is inherently evil to the more straight-laced sects: dancing, drinking, drugs, sex, theatre, music; they only tolerate eating because it's absolutely necessary.

They're scared of the different. It's an arrested development problem: they want to be good enough and self-sacrificing enough so "daddy" will finally love them. It's sick, and it brooks no dissent.

The power of the Republicans is still largely in the hands of corporatists and the economic elite, but they've been playing with fire thinking that the fundies will be blindly obedient. Fundies want their payback now, and that's going to be hard to contain. Whether Junior sides more with the former than the latter is yet to be seen, but my instincts tell me that it's with the latter: I really do feel that he considers himself to be supernaturally blessed and on some glorious vector of ascendancy. Who knows? I do know THIS, though: some serious puritanism is coming down the pike, and I just hope enough sense resides in the selfishness that is conservatism to see the impracticality of it all.

Personally, I think they may be headed for a bit of a crash about this, because the fundies and the grassroots dunderheads want to criminalize and eliminate homosexuality, and if their overlords cozen up to civil unions, they may get a snootful.

It's all so disgustingly primitive that one's credulity is stretched just when seeing the undeniable events around us.

If civil unions ARE pushed through, though, the battle will turn: there are entities on earth that WILL marry same-sex couples, and if the laws of the land allow all the property, survivorship and other rights, the partners can call themselves married and the troglodytes can just stew. Then they will have to spend their energies actively revoking rights.

Maybe it takes something like this to sober up the oblivious non-fundamentalist Christians to what megadicks their brethren are.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Amen Richard!

[Pepperbelly]

19. we STILL have to quit meeting like this ...

:loveya:

[Pepperbelly]

20. we STILL have to quit meeting like this ...

:loveya:

[vinny9698]

18. The republicans hate love, that's why they hate gay marriage

The republicans are hateful,

[The Magistrate]

37. Well Said, Sir!

"If you repeat a lie often enough, you are a Republican."

[Pepperbelly]

38. thank you and here is the scary part ...

what they started as a red-meat issue to stir the evangelicals has become a Frankenstein monster to these thugs.