This Bible bashing needs to stop! Democrats are suppose to be about

[Quixote1818]

tolerance! Now look, I think 75% of the Bible is wrong but 25% is wonderful! Can we at least be respectful of the Bible as it means a lot to millions of people. It's not my thing and I know it has caused a lot of evil over the centuries but the way to win over the other side is certainly not done by making fun of their belief system! Anyone who continues to bash the Bible and not treat people of religion with respect are acting against everything the Democratic Party stands for! I am willing to bet we may be loosing some liberal Christians tonight, right here on DU because of this attitude.

The basic teachings of Jesus are wonderful and EXTREMELY liberal! Lets be respectful and simply remind people of the good parts of the Bible while at the same time put in our two cents about why we think other parts of the Bible are not beneficial to mankind. You don't change minds by being rude and making fun of the other side! Why do you think we lost this last election! Perhaps we garner some of the blame for our lack of respect of Christianity. Lets argue our points with facts not venom! It's much more effective!

[alexisfree]

1. thank you/...

I am getting tired of this Sunday school thing..x(

[JAbuchan08]

2. I'm not bashing anything

I'm just advocating that people be held responsible for their beliefs.

[w13rd0]

3. The basic teachings of Jesus...

...are not known. Paul took over the Way and made it his own. I don't like Paul, he reminds me of Robert Tilton. Jesus might have been a cool dude, but Paul, he's a prick.

[Moderate Dem]

4. GREAT POST!

People here had better start being a little more careful about what they say, and how they say it if they don't want the same thing to happen in 2008.

I would bet that the vast majority of registered Democrats consider themselves Christians. It's not real bright when you allow your anger to cause you to insult the religion of the same people whose votes you are seeking.

[Bluebear]

10. You sound just like Ari Fleischer!

"People here had better start being a little more careful about what they say, and how they say it."

:)

[Moderate Dem]

20. Come on, you know what I mean....

I'm just saying that this forum is not private. Anyone can come here and read every post. Conservatives can come here and show quotes form this site to potential Democratic voters!

Do you REALLY want mainstream potential Democratic voters to hear people here at the DEMOCRATIC Underground bashing Christians?

Would you canvass a middle class suburban neighborhood wearing a T-shirt that said "Fuck suburban middle class neighborhoods"?

How smart would that be?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. There's a big difference between a Christian and a Jesus moron

a very big difference.

The bible when used as a means for one to live their own life can be a wonderful story...when it's used to hit others over the head, it's nothing less than assault with a deadly weapon

[Mr_Spock]

57. You tell 'em - I agree. Why are Christians so damned sensitive anyway?

If it's all so great, then why are people getting pissed of anyway?

C'mon original poster - think about it!

BTW - nice avatar! Very funny.

[movonne]

21. BS!!

[Ann Arbor Dem]

22. This statement bothers me a lot....

>>>>People here had better start being a little more careful about what they say, and how they say it if they don't want the same thing to happen in 2008.

-------

I don't think you meant to come across as a censor, but you did. Free speech is still legal. Chastising the folks here, no matter how nicely it's framed, is still chastising.

[Swamp Rat]

29. Watch what you say!

[Ann Arbor Dem]

38. Gostei muito! n/t

[Swamp Rat]

45. Brigado! Oi Ann Arbor Dem!

:hi: Faz muito tempo desde que eu te encontrei, né?

[Ann Arbor Dem]

54. Eu tava trabalhando pra caramba até a eleição...

E você? Como vai tua vida? A gente precisa falar de música logo.

[Swamp Rat]

55. Tô bem cara.

Também eu etava trabalhando muito até a eleição. A gente pode falar logo de música - meu amigo acava de gravar un disco novo de chôro, é muito legal! Agora tenho que estudar depois que ler as notícias.

[are_we_united_yet]

34. uhhhya!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Some people think Danielle Steele novels are wonderful

I wouldn't want the country run by that litmus test either.

[Francesca]

6. good point

thank you. was brought up in a born again household (mother came over from Sicily when she was 19 and converted in her second marriage). I love my mother and stepfather (who is a pastor) but have been feeling downright hostile to them recently.. They are constantly pressuring me to come to their church (I am young enough to still feel guilty for not going). I am also guilty of trashing the born agains with friends since the election.. Never did that before and always had respect for my parents.. ashamed to admit how angry I am with them.. Find myself lumping them all in with Jimmy Swaggart and his ilk... Its totally unproductive and I appreciate your post(I feel a little more balance after reading it)

[quaoar]

65. dupe

[quaoar]

66. One way to alleviate that pressure

is to find a different church to attend and explain to your mother and stepfather that you want to find your own path in a religious community.

Assuming, of course, that you are interested in church at all.

[seabeyond]

7. speaking the truth about the words in bible

is not bashing. and the reason the right have so much power saying liberals are non christian, which is decidedly untrue is because the left christians dont question the rights belief. we allow. they are the ones not allowing our beliefs as being christian and put us in ridicule. so maybe the right ought to quit bashing fellow christians.

[AlCzervik]

8. I dint have a problem with the bible

i have a problem with the people who interpret it to justify anything.

[Atman]

9. No, actually, the CHRISTIANS are supposed to be about tolerance!

But apparently the aren't listening to Jesus.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. The Bible has never caused evil.

People's misinterpretation of the Bible to suit their own ends has caused evil.

Important difference.

[Smarmie Doofus]

18. Now you can't really believe that!

A lot of the Bible is, in fact, unadulterated evil. I don't say it is ALL evil but there is much evil within: calls to genocide, for example.

It's not only that parts are misinterpreted. It is that parts are interpreted correctly.

Paul

[Diana52]

12. When they stop *bashing* my belief system with the Bible!

If Jesus ever walked this Earth, I DARE say he would be sorely disappointed with the way his teachings have been bastardized!

eom

[tsuki]

13. Thank you, Andrew Sullivan.

I heard this whole thread on Bill Maher last night. Right before he began demonizing Noam Chomsky.

[PretzelWarrior]

15. I love the Bible. It's so easy to prove fundamentalists and radicals

don't really believe it themselves just by pointing to certain passages in it.

I mean, let's get down to basics. The first century Christians were stoned, killed by lions, driven from countries, etc. partly because they were outside the main. They didn't involve themselves in politics. Jesus himself said:

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews." -John 18

He also explained that they were not to be of this world..mixing in and supporting the framework of this world:

"If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you;



this is an excellent page about Christianity and social justice:

http://www.crossroads.ca/unique/un021204.htm

we need to keep promoting this aspect of the story. They pick and choose. Which is something St. Peter in a letter to Christians said would be a mark of false Christians. They would assemble false teachers to "tickle their ears".

[movonne]

16. How can we have tolerance, when these churches are ruining this

country..I believe everyone has right to believe what they want but I do not like this stuff shoved in our faces...Yes the basic teaching of Jesus is wonderful but it has been hijacked by these fundies and it is making some of us resent the word Christianity...it is been thrown around like a hateful thing..hate is the key word.. I am sure the Muslin faith is also very wonderful but is also hijacked by the extremes and is also getting a bad name. So we have to fight these extremes by not buying into this be nice thing...Now why would we lose Christians on here if they feel this way?

[jwirr]

53. I think we are having problems

with defining Christianity here. I am a Christian who is as mad at her own church (LCMS) as one can get but I do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just the damn erring church. When you say Christians and mean fundies you are indirectly insulting us Christians who have been Democrats all our lives BECAUSE we are Christians. Say what you will but make sure that you are speaking about the right group and not stereotyping all Christians into one group. The teachings of the New Testament have inspired my life of caring for others and positive tolerance toward others who are not like me. They have given me a sense of my own forgiveness which I in turn try to generously apply to others. I am not ashamed of these teachings. But I have read many definitions of Christianity here and in fundie literature that make me sick. We need to stop trying to tell others what to believe in or how to interpret what they think. Church attendance is a personal choice. We need instead to demand that separation of church and state that our Constitution gave us. It is the guarantee that we each have freedom of religion.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Let's face it, Jesus would be nauseated by our country

The money-grubbing, materialistic, two-faced, arrogant, aggressive, narcissistic part, that is.

[Bluerthanblue]

19. it is a BOOK

not a 'God'-
that is the only problem i have with it- people who hide behind thier interpretation of the printed page-

i have NO problem with 'FAITH' in 'God" or what ever name one chooses for thier 'higher power'- but the bible has been used as a tool for killing, hatred, and division since the day it was finalized by order of the ruler Constantine- back at the 'council of Nicea' in the 300'ad?

That is where politics began dictating what was 'of God'- and worshiping the 'words' and not what the meaning or message behind the words was/is.

[smirkymonkey]

47. Exactly. There are many of us who believe it is a book like

any other, and subject to critique.

I am tired of being told by the "Bible Thumpers" that "this is the way it is, and if you don't believe it then you are going to suffer eternal damnation." If they shut up, I will.

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the bible is filled, it would seem more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809)

"The Bible is a wonderful source of inspiration for those who don't understand it."
-- George Santayana

[Union Thug]

23. I'm not bashing the bible.. I'm bashing the sheep that believe...

it is a historical document and who would abandon science to believe in the magical world view contained therein.

It's that simple.

[jonnyblitz]

24. thats alot of CRAP to get thru just for 25% of something good.

I will gladly pass on all of it. :puke:

[jpak]

25. On election night in Pensacola fundies harassed Dem voters waiting to vote

They taunted them as "sinners".

The drove many away from at least one polling place.

They can take their Bibles and shove them up their Christian Taliban cornholes as far a I'm concerned.

They are not Christ-like and never will be.

[GettysbergII]

26. Dominionists and CNP must be exposed as heretical and treasonous

http://www.thementalmilitia.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=251&mode=thread

The "Constitution Restoration Act of 2004" is no joke; it was introduced last month by some of the Bush Regime's most powerful Congressional sycophants. If enacted, it will effectively transform the American republic into a theocracy, where the arbitrary dictates of a "higher
power" -- as interpreted by a judge, policeman, bureaucrat or president -- can override the rule of law.

The Act -- drafted by a minion of television evangelist Pat Robertson -- is the fruit of decades of work by a group of extremists known broadly as "Dominionists." Their openly expressed aim is to establish "biblical rule" over every aspect of society -- placing "the state, the school,
the arts and sciences, law, economics, and every other sphere under Christ the King." Or as Attorney General John Ashcroft -- the nation's chief law enforcement officer -- has often proclaimed: "America has no king but Jesus!"

According to Dominionist literature, "biblical rule" means execution -- preferably by stoning -- of homosexuals and other "revelers in licentiousness"; massive tax cuts for the rich (because "wealth is a mark of God's favor"); the elimination of government programs to alleviate poverty and sickness (because these depend o­n "confiscation of
wealth"); and enslavement for debtors. No legal challenges to "God's order" will be allowed. And because this order is divinely ordained, the "elect" can use any means necessary to establish it, including deception, subversion, even violence. As Robertson himself adjures the faithful: "Zealous men force their way in."

Again, this is no tiny band of cranks meeting in some basement in Alabama, as recent reports by investigators Karen Yurica and David Neiwert make clear. The Dominionists are bankrolled and directed by deep- pocketed, well-connected business moguls and political operatives who have engineered a takeover of the Republican Party and are now at the heart of the U.S. government. They've made common cause with the
"American Empire" faction -- Cheney, Rumsfeld, the neo-conservatives -- who seek "full-spectrum dominance" over the globe. The Dominionists provide money and domestic political muscle for the Dominators' imperial
ambitions; in return, the Dominators provide a practical vehicle -- overwhelming military might and state power -- for making the Dominionists' dreams a reality.

The Dominionist movement was founded by the late R.J. Rushdoony, a busy beaver who also co-founded the Council for National Policy. The CNP is the politburo of the American conservative movement, filled with top-rank political and business leaders who set the national agenda for the vast echo chamber of right-wing foundations, publishers, media
networks and universities that have schooled a whole generation in obscurantist bile -- just as the extremist Wahabbi religious schools funded by Saudi billionaires have poisoned the Islamic world with hatred and ignorance.

One of the chief moneybags behind the rise of Dominionism was tycoon Harold Ahmanson, Rushdoony's protege and fellow CNP member. In addition to establishing theocracy in America, Ahmanson has another abiding interest: computerized voting machines. As reported here last year, Ahmanson, a fervent Bush backer, was instrumental in establishing two of the Republican-controlled companies now rushing to install their highly hackable machines -- with untraceable, unrecountable electronic ballots -- across the country in time for the November election.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Don't push this crap off on me

I don't believe in religion at all! And last I heard, I was allowed to say that. I wasn't raised with religion, never had it introduced into my life and thankfully so. I have never read the Bible and I don't care too. I don't have a problem with anyone's religious beliefs, so long as you don't force it down my throat. Back off!

[Only Me]

28. The truth is we shouldn't bash anyones religion or their God. n/t

[smirkymonkey]

49. Until it becomes a social and political force...

then, the gloves come off.

[sangh0]

58. And when race becomes a social and political force

will you use race to bash people?

[smirkymonkey]

60. How many times has you argued this?

Religion is NOT the same as Race. Period.

One of the founding principles of this nation was Separation of Church and State. It's in the constitution.

This is a complete strawman. I refuse to argue with you about it.

[sangh0]

63. Bigotry is bigotry

And the seperation of Church and State does justify bigotry. Period.

[Only Me]

68. O.k., but we are still a free nation. We all have the right to practice

our beliefs, or not practice, any way we see fit,...as long as we are not breaking any laws. In that respect, we should not demoralize just because we don't agree with them.

"Until it becomes a social and political force..."
This is precisely the point they have taken with our stance on some of the issues. They fear us and we fear them.
Any group large enough to get attention is a social and political force.

We know that as Democrats and Progressives that freedom of choice to live our lives in the way we choose, as long as we are not harming anyone, is our right. We fight for it. We fight for each other to have these same rights. We have many of the same goals so it makes it easier for us to except ... But it gets harder when we must except those groups of people that we just can't understand or don't like. We may even loathe everything they stand for or represent to us, but we have to share this world with these people.

We shouldn't keep calling Christians names, it's disrespectful and hateful to so many innocent people that have little to do with the ones in bed with this administration. There are many fundamental Christians that are not total wackos. Their are many Christian churches that don't promote hate.

We shouldn't lump a group of people into a ball and attack them because of their belief system. We shouldn't falsely conform to
their beliefs either. They should keep theirs values and we should keep ours. If we had our people in the Government right now, we would expect our issues to be dominate, even if it disagrees with the other half of the nation. This is there hope too.

We need to fight the administration and come up with a plan to retake control of our country, not attack the people that put him their.
We need to devalue him in THOSE peoples eyes, because we need some of their votes. We won't win our country back if we don't start thinking smarter and more strategically.

my opinion only.

[jarab]

30. Excellent "advice", imho ...

We should exemplify spirituality and avoid religion. Also, everyone's spirituality is different and therefore unreachable through argument.
Liberals should show their true colors through simple and constant example ... and not boast about how religious they are or how irreligious are others.
Politics may be played with hundreds of winnable issues; religion doesn't have to be one of those.
And, it would be best to remain - in almost all cases - a very private matter. Others should be able to play the religion card as they see fit.
We're making much more of this issue than will be necessary in the future. Many unforeseen events will control the political arena.
JMHO ... and not arguable (by me).

...O...

[Malva Zebrina]

31. I'm not bashing the bible

I am presenting my view of the bible and sorry if it offends but as much as those who believe the bible as truth, I on the other hand do not view it as such. If that offends then I think there are other factors at work rather than openess to all views.

There are many inconsistencies that lead me to consider that the words were not really the words of the man Jesus

and I am not the only one

http://www.westarinstitute.org/Jesus_Seminar/jesus_seminar.html

and maybe according to the Archaeologists Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman all is not what it has been presented as as they wrote in their book "The Bible Unearthed" which I have read and that is an accomplishment because it is tedious.

http://www.bibleinterp.com/commentary/Finkelstein_Silberman022001.htm

so that is where I am coming from, generally and I don't see how menitoning these things is hurtful to those who profess a different belief or can be considered "bashing" the bible.

[clidaw]

41. The BIble unearthed is tedious?

I really enjoyed that book. They did a good job arguing their case with a minimum of scientific and scholarly jargon. Then again, I'm pretty boring, so maybe that is why I liked it.

[Malva Zebrina]

43. well, it was for me at times

but then at times I can be rather slow. I also enjoyed it :hi:

[The Magistrate]

32. Unfortunately, Mr. Quixoti

There is some real demolition work that needs to be done.

A good deal of the problem is that the theocratic enemy draws cover from persons who, while religious, not only have little in common with the views of Dominionists and End Timers, but little understanding what these extreme beliefs actually are. When these theocratic extremists are attacked, they cry, "You are attacking religious people and religion!" and so a number of people reflexively feel they themselves are being attacked, and rally to protect the extremist theocrats.

Thus, the first need is to seperate out in public discourse the extreme positions of the real enemy, who, but bluntly, mean to use the book as a prescription for a theocratic fascism in no way dissimilar from that of the Taliban. This means two things must be done. First, people must indeed be confronted with what the book actually says, since the theocratic extremists are quite serious about using it for a blue-print. Most ordinary believers are quite ignorant of the actual contents of the book, and would be repelled as any of us by the very portions the theocratic fascists wish to take as instructions for ordering our country. Second, people must be confronted with the difference between what they actually believe themselves, and what the book directs. Very few people, for instance, actually believe unbelievers are condemned to eternal torment, or that grace alone, and not leading a good life, is the ticket to salvation. In fact, anyone who does not believe these things is not really a Christian, though they may well be unaware of this.

The second need is to emphasize politically those elements of the book that do direct, as a matter of morality and the directions of the diety, social justice in all its material forms. These can be found throughout the work, and not just the latter books of the Christian era. The old prophets are rife with denunciation of economic injustice and oppressions against the poor. The various Gospels are certainly laden with them. In all cases, they are divine injunctions, and it is made quite clear the deity will be moved to great wrath if they are disregarded. This allows open attack on the theocratic extremists for blatantly disregarding these divine directives. They should be attacked as the lowest sort of "cafeteria Christians" in this regard, who pick and chose what they will adhere to, as though they had the right to disregard the word of their God, in pursuit of their own selfish pleasure in spreading fear and tyranny, and mulcting funds from the simple souls among their flocks.

"I say unto you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

[Liberal Veteran]

33. Xtianity bashed me before I ever thought about bashing it.

It was an act of self-defense.

Honestly, it was.

Yes. I might have been a bit harsh on Christianity and some may acuse me of bashing Christianity, but from where I stand, Christianity bashed me before I ever thought about bashing it.

I grew up in the church, as it were. I watched with young eyes as my little community Southern Baptist church went from just a fellowship of people to worship together and help each other and as the years passed it turned into something else.

I started seeing signs of it creeping into Sunday school where we would be told all sorts of interesting tales about how everyone in the world was out to destroy Christianity and how there was some huge conspiracy to make Christianity illegal.

About the same time I started to see a schism form in the church as well, as the older people began to die off, we stopped having as many church suppers and using our church to help others in the community and using it to further isolate ourselves from the world. I also noticed it becoming more and more about teaching about other people's evils and pointing out of sin than teaching about the love of Jesus and forgiveness. I also saw how the wealthier in church began to look down just ever so slightly on the poor in the church.

Of course it was at the time I was growing up, and some of it was likely present from the beginning.

Then I remember one day hearing a guest preacher come to church to teach about the evils of homosexuality and how they were trying to recruit all children. Being a teen who was coming to grips with my own sexuality at the time and not an unintelligent person at that, I began to look at what I was being told in a new light.

What my church did for me was something I won't forget even if I can forgive: They instilled in me a sense of worthlessness and self-loathing for myself that I didn't deserve.

It took me years to reconcile my Christian upbringing with my homosexuality. Eventually, I decided that I really didn't need a church to believe and learn about Christ. I could do that as well on my own. I knew how to read, cross-reference, and study the scholarship of others. I don't like organized religion anymore. I think there is much to be learned from the bible, but I don't think dressing it up in rituals and singing hymns and listening to droning preachers is helpful. I've gathered quite a bit of wisdom in how to be a decent human being from the words of Jesus and am probably a better person for it.

But there is one thing I am certain. As I look back through my life and how many difficulties my sexual orientation has caused me in life and the obstacles that people toss at me over it, I find they generally have a root source....it's that same church that I left behind years ago in disgust.

I know there are many people who think of themselves as Christians who get very upset when people are critical and tend to get defensive when people say negative things in general terms about Christianity.

It's not easy hearing that there is an ugly side to Christianity that infected the US version of it or to hear people say things that you don't feel pertain to what you believe as a Christian. I can understand that and respect it. I can also understand feeling defensive.

But I want you to also try to understand where the other side is coming from on that as well. When I know that the overwhelming majority of people who voted this week to try to limit my rights as a person in 11 states did so because of their faith and I express some bitterness about that....

Keep in mind where it's coming from....They bashed me long before I ever considered bashing back.

It's an act of self-defense and it's not aimed specifically at you but at the millions upon millions who used their faith an tool of oppression on Tuesday.

[leftofthedial]

35. praise gawd

and hand me a viper!

[flordehinojos]

36. it is not so much bible bashing as it is the incredible misinterpretation

of the bible.
it is not so much antibibleism as it is anti push your values down my throatism.
the reason the pilgrims came on the mayflower is because they were looking for freedom of religion. our founding fathers knew that. that is why the constitution gives us freedom of religion. this whole crapola thing about shoving "moral values" down people's throat ...
it is about antishovingism (or anti moral-chauvinist-pigs)... that is what it is about.
God is good; people like GWB and his followers misrepresent him.

[Voltaire]

37. No offense

But if non-crazy Christians could put a spotlight on their not so swift fellow Christians and repudiate them then perhaps non-Christians would not be so swift and loose with their condemnations. Personally, I'm really sick of the idea of having to live with the ideas of such morons in charge, but it won't do any good coming from me... I AIN'T CHRISTIAN. But responsible thinking Christians could help. Please??

[Poisonskin_com]

39. and here's how it goes....

I don't think we should have attacked Iraq.

"Eye for an eye."

[Cleita]

40. Excuse me Bible means book.

All books are subject to criticism in a free society.

[jdj]

52. yes, I'll treat it with the same repect as any historical fiction book

you know, like "Gone with the Wind", etc.

[Ducks In A Row]

42. when they stop using to to bash and kill people like us

maybe I'm consider it

[no_hypocrisy]

44. The issue isn't the Bible. It isn't Christians. It's fundamentalists.

It's actually the leaders of fundamentalists who use Jesus and the Bible to manipulate their flocks instead of sharing the teachings of Jesus and the tenets of their faith.

Their leaders are more interested in power and the accrual of "filthy lucre" than in spreading the Gospel. Their congregations consider them authorities and give them a free pass instead of listening with discrimination and intelligence.

The politicians get the leaders of the fundamentalist sects to do their dirty work for them by using the pulpit as a reverse lobby for the candidates. There is no more separation of church and state like you can't unscramble eggs.

THAT'S the problem.

[DELUSIONAL]

46. Well said -- and you are absolutely correct

The Christian Reconstructionists -- these are the ones who have ties to the computer voting machines -- as in DIEBOLT.

THEY are at war with us -- and they want to get their people in positions of power -- so they can eliminate us. This is NOT paranoia -- they have lots of written records (books, booklets-- sermons etc) letting us know exactly what they want to do.

However right on cue some ()(*& democrat/liberal -- comes and tells us not to bad mouth the bible or christians --

And so I refer you to the above post . . .

[Quixote1818]

64. Your post would have made more sense than mine! Good point!

[The empressof all]

48. Not Bashing the Bible, Bashing the Hypocrisy

There is a big difference

[jdj]

50. not right now, thank you..

probably not for several more weeks.

if ever...

[zeemike]

51. Well I am finished

I myself am tired of tying to convince all of you that it is your own best interest to support touse that hold the same values as you do rather than trash them with angry rants against there belief system just because there parents made them go to a fundy church.
I sometimes wonder if the freepers are the ones doing it, because it is in there interest to split us up and put us at each others throats over a belief system that is not at all incompatible in terms of our values and goals.
You can lead a horse to watter but you can't make him drink.
So let the RW own Religion and the progressives can own nothing of any spiritual value. Being right is more important than unity I suppose if it is your ego that is at stake.

[Mr_Spock]

56. Who's Bible bashing? 25% only is good?

Anyway,

Jesus = good;

Paul = bad;

Much of Old Testament = bad

- it's pretty simple really.

[HoosierClarkie]

59. Amen!

We are not going to bring the mislead Christians back by yelling at them. Let's face it, we need the Christian vote. They are mislead, it is up to us. What we are doing tonight is not going to work.

[jacksonian]

61. what Bible bashing?

everyone here is either OK with it or has critical reasons for skepticism.

That's not bashing.

[vinnievin777]

62. I agree Hate is the other side's way not ours

Don't play into the hands of the media.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2635621&mesg_id=2635621

Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com

[arwalden]

67. In A Word.... NO!!

It's a fucking book! Just a book!