Michael Moore on Bill Clinton

[BayCityProgressive]

What is everyone's opinion of what Michael Moore said about Clinton in "Stupid White Men'? He accused him of being a Republican in sheeps clothing who only when leaving office signed a few executive orders that were actually progressive. I tend to agree with him and I cant understand why so many people here idolize the Clintons. What really did they do that was so great? I am a Democrat but it seems like the Progressive Caucus is the only part of the party that hasnt sold it's liberal soul down the river.

[The Jacobin]

1. What he did that was so great?

He won.

[PretzelWarrior]

2. then abandoned gays, approved NAFTA, did welfare "reform"

with friends like that...

[BayCityProgressive]

5. exactly

who cares if he won? If we have to sell out 90% of our values to win then what is the point? I understand moderation and having to give in on some things but his entire presidency was nothing but giving in to the right wing. At least when the party was liberal we controlled congress even if we didnt have the presidency.

[trotsky]

3. He pissed off the Republicans.

Which alone is enough in my book!

But it's true, there is very little he actually did that was liberal or progressive.

[Cleita]

4. Clinton didn't sell out our country.

It's being sold off now hook, line and sinker.

[BayCityProgressive]

6. he sure set it up to be though

with NAFTA and deregulation.

[Cleita]

11. Not good moves, I have to concede.

I am hoping that he thought Al Gore would take the reins of office and continue the things he started with a refined plan. He missed the fact that there is a group of so-called of Americans who want to bring this country down and walk away from it. Of course, the whole Lewinsky impeachment thing points to the fact that those people were not only planning to bring him down, but occupy his time with this so he couldn't govern as effectively as he could have.

[bemildred]

7. Faked national health care and dumped it as soon as he could.

A very bright man and better than Bush, but no hero, no fighter.

[seabeyond]

8. clinton a zillion times better than bush, a given

but i dont put a lot of stock in bush. gore loss, he wasnt support or after the theft. bush goes to war with iraq and he backed him. then this with kerry and theft across nation. i have often been disappointed in clinton when dems really needed him

[proReality]

9. I voted for him, then...

started paying attention to what he was doing...and what he wasn't. I became totally disillusioned with him and the party. Now I've had it and will re-register as an Independent tomorrow morning. Although I'm not certain it will make a bit of difference because I'm having grave doubts the Emperor will give up power in '08. He has a "mandate" and "capital" now. :puke:

[Julien Sorel]

10. How could Clinton be a Republican, in sheep's clothing or otherwise?

After all, if given the choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican, people will vote for the real Republican every time. I keep reading that here, so I assume it's true.

[Cleita]

13. I have to say it right now.

I have no problem with Republicans who are honest Americans. The Republicans we have learned to hate today are Nazis, plain and simple. I will spit in the face of anyone who tells me again that I should use the fascist word in it's place because it's nicer. They are Nazis. They are anti-American. They need to be called what they are.

[Julien Sorel]

20. It's an American jihad, madam, an American jihad.

Bush/Rove went out and got the American versions of suicide bombers into the voting booths.

[mikehiggins]

15. Clinton was a much luckier, much more attractive candidate

Lucky because Ross Perot took enough votes from GB1 to get him into the White House in the first place.

That he was much more attractive than Bob Dole goes without saying.

If Perot hadn't run, GB1 would have trampled Clinton into the dust and everything would be different, including not having GB2 as President.

So, in the end, its all Ross Perot's fault.

Golly gee whillikers. Who would have thought it?

[Julien Sorel]

19. Clinton would have won with or without Perot.

A lot of Perot voters were simply voting against Bush I, and would have voted for Clinton had they not had Perot as an option. Perot got 19% of the vote; Clinton 43%, and Bush I 37%. Bush I would have needed 70% of Perot's vote to get to 50% nationally, and that wasn't going to happen.

12. this is what Clinton had to say about Bush's "re"election

"This election presents a great opportunity for President Bush and a great opportunity for Democrats, and the two are not necessarily in conflict,"

[BayCityProgressive]

14. GAG ME

I would never support his wife as a presidential candidate.She has supported the war, patriot act, cutting welfare, deregulation, and more.

[charlie]

16. He also said

Bush was a "great messenger." Sometimes that boy just makes me dizzy.

[freetobegay]

17. Clinton is a shithead

Sorry it took so long to figure it out.

[Laelth]

18. Clinton gave us ...

AmeriCorps ... a good idea. He balanced the budget and left it with a surplus. He gave us Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Stephen Breyer. He tried to do something about health care, even though doing so brought about a massive backlash and, perhaps, cost us the House in 1994. Clinton saved the Balkan Muslims from extermination by the Serbs (with some help from the UN). Clinton signed the Kyoto Protocol. Clinton made us look like a decent, responsible member of the world community.

Come on, now. Some of you can't be serious. Compared to Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, Clinton was an awesome President (even if he couldn't keep his pants zipped).

-Laelth

[AlbertoMo83]

21. I don't really care for Clinton...

But id still rather have Clinton than Chimpy on any day of the week. At least with Clinton we were respected all around the world, at least the economy was decent, at least we didn't get into some bogus war that's costing us billions and billions of dollars. Also Clinton knew how to talk unlike Chimpy, I didn't have to hear him fucking up the English language. Yes like Micheal Moore said "he was the greatest Republican president of all time".

[OneBlueSky]

22. Clinton lost me when he presided over the execution . . .

of that retarded man BEFORE his first election . . . I voted for him twice as the lesser of two evils, but held my nose each time . . .

[Valerie5555]

23. Was sure that guy actually had become brain damaged through a suicide

attempt.

[n2mark]

24. You people amaze me!

This is why we lose. Two weeks ago Clinton was the big dawg, he was God, when is he going to support Kerry? Today he is dirt. The pukes wouldn't do this, they stand by their man no matter. When are the dems going to wake up? You are either for someone or something, but don't be wishy washy. A few weeks ago it was Kerry in a landslide.... today he is dirt. So who is going to be your dirt tomorrow? If you are going to stand up and fight for something or someone stick with it please. You cannnot keep changing your minds. That is our problem, we condemn others, but we do the same to our own.... Yes, we have the right to disagree but wishy washy does not help us.


Yes we have the right to disagree, we have the right to change our minds, but the pukes don't do this, this is why they win. Shrub is a nut case, but the pukes keep supporting him and very few of them waiver. Look where the shrub is today, a complete idiot but his followers remain steadfast. Do we do this? No! That is why the shrub keeps winning.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

25. I was disappointed by Bill Clinton, but compared to GHWB, RWR and GWB

He's miles ahead and I would vote for him against any Republican. There wasn't too much in the way of progressive legislation, but the GOP did control Congress. He did at least preside over huge economic expansion and created 22 million new jobs. Chimpy is still -650,000. Clinton left office a respected peacemaker worldwide with influence over peace processes in Bosnia, Kosovo, Northern Ireland and the Middle East.