To the Religious Left: We NEED You.

[Ladyhawk]

I am saying this as an atheist. We may not agree on a world view, but we can agree on issues of basic decency and civil rights, I hope.

I would love to see a Religious Left movement grow and prosper. I am not your enemy. I'm just someone who sees things a little differently. Deep down, I'm sure we share the same values.

[CatholicEdHead]

1. It is getting organized again

It will take time, but there are many grassroots groups that started mid-campaign which will be pushing more in '06 and '08.

Some of the moderate to liberal Catholic groups I know of are:

http://www.catholicdemocrats.com
http://www.catholicsforkerry04.org

[mahina]

33. Read the chapter in "Organizing for Social Change" ,

Midwest academy manual for activists called "Working with Religious Organizations". http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=17-092976594x-0 It's not long, (that ch. I mean) has practical strategy advice for how to proceed and accomplish your goals.
That is the most useful idea I've seen here in days, you are 100% right on, thank you!
God bless, aloha

edited to say: I can spel !

[Eric J in MN]

2. What are the best websites of the Religious Left? (nt)

nt

[Ladyhawk]

11. Eric, I really like Ray Dubuque.

I heard him call the Mike Malloy Show. I get his newsletter and I'm an atheist. :)

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org

Check out his site. I think you will like it.

[Eric J in MN]

17. Thanks (nt)

nt

[charlie]

20. Eric

You oughta check out this article:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/12/24/pastor/

and pay a visit to this site:

http://www.clnnlc.org/

and maybe register, add to the strength of numbers of people who're fed up with the rightwing hijacking of Christianity.

[Eric J in MN]

26. thanks, I subscribe to Salon last night (nt)

nt

[procopia]

22. The Interfaith Alliance

does wonderful work:

http://www.interfaithalliance.org

[Eric J in MN]

25. Thanks, I was looking for that one (nt)

nt

[grannylib]

29. Check out Sojourner - really good site/publication for left-leaning

Christians.

[intheflow]

42. Sojourners, Beliefnet, The Other Side

http://www.sojo.net/
They have a ad campaign on right now called "God is not a Republican...or a Democrat" at this link: http://go.sojo.net/campaign/takebackourfaith

www.beliefnet.org

http://www.theotherside.org/core.html

[bunkerbuster1]

65. Not partisan, but definitely progressive

Please have a look at the resources available from the Unitarian Universalists, at

http://uua.org

[faithfulcitizen]

70. Amy Sullivan wrote a great article during the primaries....

about being more inclusive of Christians. I'll try to find it, but her blog is also good. Of course, when I mentioned this in the primaries I got flamed all over the place, go figure. :crazy:

[faithfulcitizen]

71. here it is..."Do Democrats Have a Prayer?"

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0306.sullivan.html

[cassiepriam]

3. Sorry, I am no longer can even pray ...

I am so turned off by religion.
I cringe to think I am a Christian.

[Ladyhawk]

6. You'll come to a place where you can rest again.

I am only turned off by the right-wing fundy types. I am an atheist. Perhaps you will be one, too, but it doesn't matter as long as you keep your values. :)

BIG HUGS to you.

Leaving religion was extremely painful for me. PM if you think this is the direction you are heading. I can recommend a good book to help with the pain.

[cassiepriam]

53. Thankyou

What is the name of the book,
I would like to read it.

[vetwife]

9. Please go read my Vetwife in Shock thread !

You won't be for long !

[cassiepriam]

56. Cannot find your thread

Only donating members can do a search........
can you post the link??

[vetwife]

68. I hope this thread come up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2633811

[CatholicEdHead]

10. Mix is best

The best is to always have one foot in religion and one foot firmly planted in the real, secular world. You don't loose touch with reality.

[cassiepriam]

54. I keep thinking: religion is the opiate of the people

Words spoken long ago, are true today.

[Zuni]

12. Just as Christ was persecuted, the righteous will face their own torment

It is the lord's test of your character. Keep that chin up.

[cassiepriam]

55. Thanks

[hippywife]

66. Don't give up, cassie!

I'm a Christian and a lefty. I won't let anyone take that away from me. Don't let the hate and bigotry define who you are, either. Those that espouse those values are the ones that have redefined themselves.

[kayell]

4. Another atheist echoing those thoughts.

I know many good Christians who follow the teaching of Jesus. And his teaching were of tolerance, love and respect for our fellow human beings. The same teachings as those of other great people through the ages, be they Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, atheist, agnostics etc. Their is a common wisdom about the value of people and our world that we all share.

[zeemike]

32. you are so right about a common wisdom

And those that hold that same wisdom, of peace love and understanding feel no necessity to convert the other.
As an atheist you are OK with me just as you are and I am sure Jesus as well, because your actions are just and true.

[JohnnyCougar]

5. I really don't think their world view is that different than ours

They have the same "help the poor" and "social justice" mentality. We need to push the meme: "Poverty causes abortion, Republicans cause poverty!!"

[meow2u3]

44. It just takes simple deductive reasoning

Poverty causes abortion
Republicans cause poverty
Therefore, Republicans cause abortion

[Arianrhod]

60. I like that meme. I'm going to spread it. n/t

[Zuni]

7. I am here. I am a Christian AND a gun owner

and I am liberal as heck. I stand against the Religious 'Industry' and the right wing propagandists who masquerade as religious leaders.
I want to take my Church back, along with my country.

[Pepperbelly]

8. The religious community were among the most progressive ...

in the last part of the 19th and early part of the 20th. They were responsible for a lot of the moral imperative for things as diverse as emancipation to help for the poor. They were big believers in social justice and the movement had the word "social" in it but I just can't get my old brain to retrieve the rest. Maybe someone else will recognize what I am trying to recall.

Or not.

:smoke:

[Ladyhawk]

15. You are absolutely right. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Christian leftist

My family calls him a "commie."

Funny thing is, I read some of King when I was in college. He was not a communist, but a socialist. My family doesn't recognize or care to recognize the difference.

When I told my brother I was supporting Howard Dean, he called Dean a "commie," too. That's what comes from listening to too much Limbaugh, I guess. :scared:

[gratefull4u]

34. The main line churches are liberal.

They were responsible for pushing civil rights at every turn throughout our history. They started to get a negative label put on them when the World council of Churches were accused of helping support more socialist type governments around the world. You know how we hated those "commies." I personally think this is part of a much bigger picture of discrediting anyone but fascists. I am no expert on any of this but I'm trying to learn. I know the presbyterian church has 2 groups in the USA, one very liberal, one very conservative. I go to the liberal one and there were many tears this week. We believe in the Jesus who helped the poor and stood up for the those who need a voice. The other presbyterian church in our town just thinks up way why everyone else but them is going to hell.

[alcuno]

13. The religious left is not necessarily voting on the basis of religion.

It's really hard to fight against people who have absolute convictions because there isn't much reasoning with them. I'll say again that Barack Obama gave a really nice speech at the convention about how we are not Christian and Jew or liberal or conservative. He said we're Americans. The problem is that a big chunk of the population doesn't agree with that. To us it seems perfectly reasonable, but the religious right's view is that they are right and the rest of us are going to hell. I don't know how to compromise or even reason with that.

I'm a Catholic and you are an atheist. I don't feel any great need to persuade you about my faith nor do I believe that you can't be in Heaven beside me. I mean that as no insult. However, I have to listen to the same bit about how I'm going to hell because I don't believe the way they do.

I think that there needs to be a concerted effort to peel away Catholics from the religious right. Most have no idea what they really think of us.

[Eric J in MN]

14. Clergy Network for National Leadership Change

Religious DUers should contact this organization to ask how they can help:

http://www.clnnlc.org/

[silverlib]

16. faithfulamerica.org

"An election is not the final word - it is the first step."

On November 2, America's voters chose their political leaders. In the midst of a sometimes bitter and divisive campaign, the people of our nation spoke in record numbers. Now we stand together at the threshold of a new day in our lives together as Americans, and we hold a powerful promise - that in a democracy, every voice is important. Every person is vital. Every act of faith is blessed.

We invite you to join FaithfulAmerica.org and help bring about the dream of a nation united, just and compassionate!
----------------------------


FaithfulAmerica.org is an online community of people of faith who want to build a more just and compassionate nation.

FaithfulAmerica.org is a project of the National Council of Churches with support from TrueMajority and Res Publica.

[freetobegay]

18. I get burned on the cross 2 or 3 times a day here

But I keep coming back for more! They don't realize the more they rag on my religion, the more my faith gets stronger!

[Silverhair]

19. Usually Christians get flamed if they post here.

The general attitude displayed is that Christians are not welcome.

[CatholicEdHead]

36. Could care less

I don't care if I get flamed for posting as a Catholic.

The Social left has its roots from and still needs the religious left. This last election proved it more than ever. The "moral" battle is on for the next 2-4 years.

Assume for now that Rove will continue the election fight for a new GOP canidiate in 2008.

[NEDem]

52. I think many people are like me.

We rant about 'Christians' when we really are aiming at a specific group, the RW Fundies.

Unfortunately this is partially the fault of all Christians because they have allowed a vocal subset to hijack the religious debate in this country. Until the 'Religious Left' stands up and starts making the same amount of noise that the 'Religious Right' makes, this broad generalization will continue.

If you are tired of being lumped in with the nutjob Christians, then do something about it, make some noise.

[Arianrhod]

61. The problem is that you guys are too silent.

The wackos have been openly spewing their bigoted bullshit for 30 years, and the left arm of the Church has closed its ears and eyes to the situation. I've been pleading for 11 years for the Church to throw off its wishbone and grow a backbone, but it seems no one is interested in confronting the rabid mouth-foamers. "Brothers in Christ", and all that. The Church has been so reticent about offending its members that it has left the poor and downtrodden to be ground underfoot.

Give me a leftist Church that is as vocal and politically active as Falwell's and Robertson's Nazis, and I will join with you in a heartbeat.

[Tanuki]

21. Baptist Peace Fellowship

Nope, not an oxymoron. Some of us are keeping the faith.
http://www.bpfna.org/index.html

[H2O Man]

23. I'm sure that most DUers who are

old enough to remember them hold the Berrigan brothers in high esteem.

Truth is that most atheists have a similar belief system as the "Religious Left." Prove it, you say? Okay. I think that you would agree that there is an energy force that makes a living hawk distinct from a dead hawk; I have to think you would prefer a clean mountain spring to a TCE-contaminated man-made "lake"; I know you respect the natural goodness of children, including 10-year old girls who want to be president; I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that you favor feeding the hungry, and clothing the naked poor. I think you would agree that there is a powerful life force on earth, and that when humans respect it, society will be able to enjoy a healthier existence. I think that you know that the greatest human power is gentleness, and that people are nourished by forgiveness. Because that is what all of the great masters of all of the world's religions have taught. That's God. And it's fine if people use another name for it.

[Polly Glot]

24. Yes, Ladyhawk, there is a Religious (Christian) Left!

About the only reservation I have had since joining DU recently is the overt hostility by some DU'ers towards ALL Christians. I try to bear no ill will towards those who believe differently than I do, whether they be Atheists, Fundies, etc.

Having said that, I'm still profoundly puzzled as to the reasoning behind the Fundies' self-proclaimed "moral superiority." I think it has a lot to do with simple ignorance of other people, cultures, and value systems... Most Fundies I know have never ventured much further than their Church barbeques.

We read the "Beatitudes" as the Gospel today in my (non-Fundie) church. In light of recent events, they brought tears to my eyes:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you."

IMHO, these are beautiful words no matter who you are or what you believe.

[bobbieinok]

27. Beatitiudes....I was raised in the so bapt church.....since I was old enuf

to appreciate irony, I have marveled that I heard my first sunday school lesson on the Beatitudes at the Christian Science church when I was in 5th or 6th grade. (So bapts do not consider Christian Scientists Christian.)

[Polly Glot]

30. I'm not sure Southern Baptists consider anybody

other than other Southern Baptists to be true Christians... but then, so many denominations out there say the same about themselves.
:(

[Tanuki]

35. Beatitudes

I too was raised a Southern Baptist, and was expected to memorize the Beatitudes at a young age, maybe 10 years old. They were the subject of many sermons and lessons over the course of my formative years.

[zeemike]

28. Thank you Ladyhawk

you are indeed a lady
And our goals and world view is not that different that we should not work together.
And I, like most of the true believers in the teachings of Jesus, have no need to convert you to my own belief system. Because in the end it is our values and our similar goals that really matter to most of the followers of Jesus and to Jesus himself.
So thanks for the support and let us work together for the good of all.

[CBHagman]

31. I am part of the religious left, and we're still here.

The U.S. has had a religious left -- Jesse Jackson, Father Robert Drinan, Jimmy Carter, and so forth. The Falwells and Robertsons of the country get most of the media attention.

Ladyhawk, I appreciate your saying that we share basically the same values. Believe me, given the deplorable behavior of some who loudly proclaim their Christianity (I'm thinking of people like Tom DeLay and George W. Bush), I'd vote for an atheist any day as long as he or she was strong on human rights, civil rights, etc.

[BamaLefty]

37. BamaLefty is LIBERAL & CHRISTIAN!!!

[pelagius]

38. Thank you. We all need each other. n/t

[Abelman]

39. Another site

http://www.therightchristians.org/

I'm a liberal Christian Democrat. I've spent the afternoon reading the bible, supporting myself.

Guess what? We're okay. From a strictly Christian perspective, I pray the Religious Right realizes its mistakes and learns the basis of all Biblical law:

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and Mind"
That's most important, says Jesus. Some of you may not be down with that, being atheists and all. But here's the second:
"Love one Another."

So, really, if you aren't upholding those two commandments, you aren't a Christian. That's the basic belief you should have.

Love.

I am such a wimpy liberal:cry:

[knight_of_the_star]

40. Pagans lean our way

But getting us organized is sort of like herding a flock of cats.

[BernieBear]

41. There have to be more people who are "spiritual" then religious

I suppose if someone asks I consider myself a Christian. But my Christianity is so different from Fundamentalism that they barely exist side-by-side. Now I'm new to DU so perhaps there are a lot of atheists or agnostics here, but I've always thought most people believe in God. But somehow the Fundamentalist right has gone mainstream with those mega-churches and now of course Dems are seen as Godless, which I think is so far from the truth. Somehow we need to show that we embody the spirit of all religions. Love, tolerance, etc. That we are the true soul of spirituality and not of dogmatic religion. I live in one of those gated master planned communities with a mega church right down the street and many people who go there are not the hard core fundamentalists. Many are new agers, or just people who may have been brought up in Presbyterian or Methodist or whatever churches who are looking for a sense of peacea and community.

I don't have an answer. I have a lot of questions. Sorry, this post doesn't make much sense as I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. I'm just depressed over it all.

BernieB

[sangh0]

43. We're here for you

God is not a Republican or a Democrat

http://www.sojo.net/

[shelley806]

45. When I first came to DU, this was a thread that I bookmarked, and

just now checked, and it seems we have access to the archives again. The entire thread was wonderful. I look back at it with sadness now, even though it was just after the debates. That immoral B* is claiming a mandate on morality is too painful for me currently!
I copied only the first post of the thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2472201

Is the Christian Left back?..............Why yes, I think it is.
Reinhold Niebuhr. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. The former was a theologian who saw the failures of the Depression and became a leader of Christian socialists in America. The latter was the greatest figure of the Civil Rights movement.

During the 20th century, from about 1930-1980, there was a strong religous left in our country, without which the New Deal, a great society, or much of the Civil Rights movement wouldn't have succeeded. Yet, the movement seemed to die when we elected one of its own...Jimmy Carter. It was then that we saw opposition and the "Rise of the Religious Right" that overtook it.

Fast-forward to 2004. We are in a war that almost every major Christian church was against. For the first time in years, we have a candidate opposed to the death penalty running for public office.

I found this article discussing the phenomenon. What do you think?

"What we're seeing in this campaign is a reinvigoration of the progressive religious voice," said John Podesta, president of the Washington-based Center for American Progress and a former chief of staff to President Bill Clinton.

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/okeefe090204.html

[NEOBuckeye]

46. There are more of us here than you know.

We're all fighting for the same things: Peace, Justice, Equality and Prosperity for all humanity. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or Pagan, Jew or Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, or something else entirely different. When we all come together, we can combine our powers to create the one force that will overwhelmingly prevail over the fascist fundamentalist order.

It is a timeless effort, and this is yet one more chapter in our long and enduring struggle to guide the heart and soul of humanity.

[RevCheesehead]

47. "I'm RevCheesehead, and I'm (salute) reporting for duty!"

Yes, I am a United Methodist pastor, in Wisconsin. I went to seminary at Duke, and served in North Carolina for 6 years, before returning home.

We (clergy)ARE organizing, and are more energized than ever before. I predict you will see many pastors becoming more outspoken on economic and social justice issues. But we, too, need to be careful, that the message is centered in the Word, and not perceived as our opinion.

When I was in high school, one of my pastors loved MLK, Jr. Very pro-feminist, nuclear disarmament, social activist. I agreed with his positions wholeheartedly. But his preaching sucked. He couldn't connect anything to a text, and basically just preached on whatever he wanted to. Never heard a word about Jesus. Not even at Christmas.

What I learned from him (this was before seminary) is that in order to reach Christians, one must not manipulate the text to say what you want it to: instead, you need to let the text preach itself.

I love and follow the lectionary. I simply read and preach the text, and then say, "hey, this is the Bible - I'm just shining a light on what it already says."

(BTW, I left NC because too many churches there would not welcome me as a woman pastor. The fight to be heard was no-win for me.)

[Lindacooks]

48. MY HUSBAND HAS AN ENTIRE BOOK WRITTEN

about how the nutso right is TOTALLY WRONG ON THE BIBLE.

I feel like I'm screaming into the wind here - does ANYBODY know a publisher who would be interested?

He's already a published author (science fiction), and one agent almost picked up on the book. I've written to Will Pitt and several other DUers and I'm not getting much of a response.

[NEDem]

49. Contact a university press organization

Some university is bound to be interested.

[Lindacooks]

50. Thanks, we'll try that.

[Arianrhod]

63. Try Llewellyn Press.

Or DoubleDay. They published The Da Vinci Code.

[GingerSnaps]

51. Why makes you think that you don't already have them in our group?

How do you know that I am not one of them or some of the others that post on this website are not religious?

Open your eyes we are here! :hug:

[Is It Fascism Yet]

57. I am part of the religous left

But i just found out today bush/cheney intends to go back to burning members of my religion.

[Dem2theMax]

58. Religious left here. Sleepy, but here.

Tooooo tired to post more than this for now. But I'll come back after some zzzzz's and post more. :)

[Arianrhod]

59. We Pagans have almost always been considered "Left".

And as a Pagan who came to my practice via 25 years of ardent, militant atheism, I can assure you that all the human values inherent to the philosophies of Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell, Albert Einstein and Jean-Paul Sartre came with me. If Existentialism is a Humanism (Sartre), then Paganism is Existentialism in Action.

[Cuban_Liberal]

62. Don't worry, we're right here.

We're in this with you non-religious progressives until the end, because we have the same basic progressive values that you do.

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

64. The Spiritual Left is out there, you just don't notice us because

we aren't trying to ram our beliefs down everyone else's throats. *l*

-----------------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. I am here...as one who left the Catholic Church last week. I do have

to say that I feel for those who get irritated at being told they believe in the "supernatural". These comments do not do much to foster a sense of community, and it is also why I avoid religion threads like the plague on most days. :hi:

[Eric J in MN]

69. We need the Religious Left to distribute pamphlets to

other religious voters.

[faithfulcitizen]

72. SO TRUE, we've talked about it here in Indiana...

and I think it would be a great national campaign. Start a new PAC and hit the ground running to lay the groundwork for future elections.

[ScreamingMeemie]

74. Forget it. I've no church connections right now, and don't intend to walk

back into that hypocritical building anytime soon. Sorry I cannot help. :hi:

[IrateCitizen]

73. We're here! But this member of the RL has one request...

When we propose that we couch our values on the left in religious/spiritual terms, that those of you who are not religious trust us when we tell you that we have no intention of weakening the separation between church and state.

The fact is that the majority of the nation identifies themselves as religious/spiritual. If we really want to talk about our values in terms that hit home, we HAVE to appeal on this level. I'm not talking about adopting RW positions here, but rather discussing the agenda of the left in terms of things like the Sermon on the Mount.

[pearl]

75. Absolutely

The model of Jesus is probably more liberal than you could
imagine. More in the same park as Karl Marx.

There's a ton of websites on this but I'm inept at posting
complicated addresses. google "christ was a liberal"

[Padraig18]

76. The RL has never left; we've only been overlooked.

We've been part and parcel of the progressive cause all along, but for the most part, we've been patted on our heads and handed cookies, like restless children. I would venture to propose that the time has arrived for our party to sit down and LISTEN to us. We are fully capable of talking to the people whose support we need in order to win
without selling progressive ideals down the river, or tearing down the high wall of separation between church and state.

Give us a chance, please; we CAN help.

:hi:

[Padraig18]

77. Kick

:)