Dean has harsh words for both parties.

[madfloridian]

He was a speaker at Dartmouth tonight.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=2533171

HANOVER, N.H. "Howard Dean had harsh words for both Republicans and Democrats today, saying that President Bush ran a campaign of fear while Democrats are losing site of their own values."

[w13rd0]

1. The triangulation...

...and "re-evaluation" that the Democratic party performs after each "loss" just furthers the public perception that Democrats will "say anything to win". If they keep "re-adjusting" their message and their platform, they are going to define themselves into complete obscurity.

[coloradodem2005]

4. Is this what Dean said?

Everything he said is true. I am glad to be hearing from him.

[madfloridian]

6. No, triangulation was the poster's word.

:hi:

[w13rd0]

29. Yes, I used triangulation...

...putting words in Dean's mouth. But that's what these "compromise to an ever rightward shifting middle by definition of the opposition" moves have achieved. Democrats are seen as not having principles, because they'll "say anything to get elected". It was one of the Rove meme's they pounded in the last weeks of the campaign. And for many out there, it rings true because right now, the Dem leaders are talking about "re-evaluating" their message.

When you are right, and you are convinced you are right, you don't "re-evaluate" your principles. You stick to them, and prove to others that you are correct.

For the GOP, they've used this effectively in reverse.
When you are wrong, and you suspect that you are wrong, don't "re-evaluate" your message. Convince people that you correct, lie and misinform them if you have to, because how can '59 million people' be wrong.

[madfloridian]

33. I agree with you. Convince, don't re-evaluate if you are right.

SNIP.."When you are right, and you are convinced you are right, you don't "re-evaluate" your principles. You stick to them, and prove to others that you are correct."

[Carolab]

2. Thanks Howard but

our asses are grass

[sangh0]

3. The headline reads "Dean says Democrats won't retreat"

.

[StevieM]

5. Good words, but perhaps Governor Dean shouldn't have...

used the words "fiscal conservative" to define fiscal responsibility. First of all, it is the liberals who are fiscally responsible. Second, the GOP owns that word and to them fiscal conservative means to cut taxes. Dean would have been made out to be trying to to deceive the voters had he been the nominee. And I could have lived without a campaign based on the Democratic nominee fighting to claim rights of ownership over the "magnificent" conservative label.

Steve

[bemildred]

8. Mr. Dean knows what he is about. nt

[madfloridian]

9. Look, I just posted what he said. None of that was in the article.

I sort of see what you are getting at, but you make it sound like he said that tonight. Don't worry, DFA is going to hire a linguist. I think this is a good idea.

How sad that honesty is twisted so that we have to not only take our country back, but our language as well.

[StevieM]

42. I'm sorry, madfloridian, I wasn't trying to do that.....

you know how it is when you're tired, typing really fast and want to get out a point about something that frustrated you. I should have been more careful with my words. Anyway, that was just something about the Dean campaign that I didn't like. I've been warming to him lately.

Steve

[Pirate Smile]

18. Repubs don't own that word and they have abandoned it.

We need to start playing smarter when it comes to the language games.

I know it seems ridiculous but this crap seems to have some effect.

"Estate tax" - no call it a "death tax" and then everyone will hate it.

The Repubs also use language in a more "moral values" way. We need to take some of this language over because they promulgate so many policies that are antithetical to "moral values" but people don't see it.

[dorktv]

32. Baby taxers! That is what EVERYONE needs to say

about Republicans now. BABY TAXERS! You want to tax babies because you are scared to have decent taxes now! Baby taxers!


Well among many other phrases: Wage Oppressors, Credit Card Precidency, Cheap Labor Con-men!


:)

[madfloridian]

34. Good ones! Way to go.

You have been reading Lakoff.

[CBHagman]

41. I like to call it the Paris Hilton Tax.

It kills me that the GOP is more interested in ensuring that Paris Hilton has to pay no taxes on her inheritance than they are in guaranteeing that more families will have a place to live through Section 8 vouchers. Every time I hear the words "death tax," I want to go throw a chutzpah pie at someone (maybe Frank Luntz).

[happynewyear]

7. and Dr. Dean ...

exactly whose side are you on anyway? Would have been nice to hear some encouraging words like INVESTIGATE THE ELECTION FRAUD DAMNIT! You should have done one of your famous "Dean screams" about this issue! :grr:

:dem: :kick:

[madfloridian]

11. That is NOT his job to speak out on that now.

He did his share before pushing the petition and hacking the vote with Bev on TV.

[NYCGirl]

13. And may I add that when Dr. Dean was speaking out about BBV...

NO ONE IN THE PARTY SEEMED TO CARE!

[madfloridian]

14. Right: NO one in the party paid attention.

He really took on this issue. Pushed it on TV, did the petition. Sent emails about it. DFA had a rally with Holt in DC to present the petition.

[DFLforever]

20. I remember him saying it was the first issue he discussed with Kerry

but our Democratic generals were geared up for the election fraud of 2000 and were completely unprepared for the electronic theft of 2004.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

15. Here here

Not a damn person listened to a word he had to say but now all of a sudden it's "Where are you Howard Dean" come help us. What the hell is up with that? Dean was dead on right, this party is not a whole lot different from the other. It's filled with people with the attitude of sit down and shut up i'll tell you what is best but when I can't get the job done and need you come bail my ass out.

[madfloridian]

16. Right on. It is not his job to get into the election problems.

He worked his butt off.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

19. I remember

the hateful nasty attitudes on this board during the primaries. Especially after Dean dropped out. All the "Dean is to hostile" "Dean is out of control" he's not electable, he's not presidential. Kerry is a sure thing. But now that the predicted landslide didn't materialize, people seem to NEED that hostility, that anger, that truthful outrage. In fact they EXPECT it. My question is this, Dean is out there talking, as he has been all along. Where the hell are Kerry and Edwards? Kerry is the candidate for President for pete's sakes this is HIS fight.

[Lorien]

23. Amen! We needed a streetfighter

and we got a career politician instead, another one with the "well, better luck next time" attitude. Dean has been a consistant fighter for us, unlike anyone in the DLC!

[Fleshdancer]

36. Exactly. Dean interviewed Bev Harris for cryin' out loud!

Dean just can't win. For some, he's way too much before the election and way too little after. :eyes:

[KarmaHappens]

28. Did you not see him on TV

before the election doing the hacking similation? He and Bev Harris were trying to open eyes back then.

[madfloridian]

37. Link to transcript and screenshots of Bev and Howard Dean on CNBC

http://www.crocuta.net/Dean/Dean_Host_TopicA_Aug8_2004.htm

[bklyncowgirl]

38. None of the party leaders will come out on this until they're sure.

Dean's been accused of being a conspiracy theorist before. Someone like him has to tread carefully here because if in the end the evidence isn't there that will be the end of his career.

[Daisey Mae]

10. We need all the help we can get.......

[Daisey Mae]

12. We need all the help we can get.......

[DFLforever]

17. And more good words:

"The former Vermont governor also criticized his own party, saying that if the Democrats are going to compete with the G-O-P, they need to stick to their own values and stop moving too far to the middle.

snip>

Dean deflected questions about whether he would consider making another run for the presidency in 2008. But he nevertheless predicted his party will rally, saying it can and will demonstrate the appeal of Democratic values to all voters."

[Abelman]

21. To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson

There are basically only two schools of politcal thought. The Aristocrats and the Democrats.

The Democrats simply lack leadership right now. Hopefully, Dean can become a leader, or Wes Clark, or Kucinich, or a number of Democrats who realize that in compromising your values you compromise your chances.

[Comadreja]

35. Unless the media reforms

They will simply play "the scream" over and over ad infinitum on every talking head show. Point set match. The electorate is too dumb for Dean.

[neebob]

22. My admiration for Howard Dean has really grown in the last few months

and particularly in the last week.

[madfloridian]

24. More on his statements...very powerful. No one left behind, he says.

Thanks, Howard Dean, for telling the party and us that no one will be left behind. You knew what was going on at the blog and at forums, and you knew the fears of many here.

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/politics/3898262/detail.html

SNIP..."The president appeals to the fears and anxieties and the hate," Dean said.

The former Vermont governor also criticized his own party, saying that if the Democrats are going to compete with the GOP, they need to stick to their own values and stop moving too far to the middle. We are in the middle. We can't do this any more. We have come too far," Dean said. "We are so desperate to win that sometimes we forget what we're supposed to stand for."

Dean's presidential bid focused on brutal attacks on both Bush and Democrats who Dean felt were all too ready to compromise with the president. Dean said Sunday that Democrats are losing votes because they have blurred the distinctions between the parties. We do not need two Republican parties in this country," he said.

Dean deflected questions about whether he would consider making another run for the presidency in 2008. But he nevertheless predicted his party will rally, saying it can and will demonstrate the appeal of Democratic values to all voters.

"There will be no retreat on behalf of the Democratic party," he said. "No American will be left behind. We believe in those values and will stand behind them forever."

www.blogforamerica.com
www.democracyforamerica.com

[NYCGirl]

25. Wow.

"No American will be left behind. We believe in those values and will stand behind them forever."

[madfloridian]

26. No American will be left behind.

Thanks, Dr. Dean. He is saying that if the party has no place then he will see there is a place. Guess what, I believe him. He got brought down for his civil unions bill, and he is passionate about that. His life was threatened because of it, and his family's life.

[Tomee450]

39. I agree with Dean.

My respect for him grows.

[Edgewater_Joe]

27. GO GET 'EM, HOWARD!

And if the DNC doesn't want you, I say we build DFA and turn THAT into the DNC, since we can use it to raise money and recruit REAL Democrats who aren't going to roll over and let Rove rub their bellies before realizing he's holding broken beer bottles while doing it.

[madfloridian]

30. Good thoughts there, Edgewater Joe. Might be his idea all along.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

31. He talked about values, scored Democrats higher. Run national campaign.

I would love to have heard that lecture.
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=2533412&nav=4QcSSr95

"I believe that if you put up a scorecard of the values that evangelical Christians hold in this country, that we will have a higher rating in the Democratic Party than they will on the Republican side. All they get is they don't like gays and abortion. What we get is doing things for people who are left out - helping the poor - standing up with communal values - caring - building a society where our internal values - lest I say publicly and proudly our Godly values - whether they are Christian or Jewish or Muslim - our Godly values are something we stand for."

[struggle4progress]

40. Tell Terry you agree with Howard!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x27180