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friesianrider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:49 PM
Original message
I am done.
You know, I racked up over 600 posts on this board in such a short time, because I LOVED it here. Everyone was so awesome and friendly.

After Tuesday's results, I was devastated. I was irritated that some people on here kept giving everyone false hope that something would change on Inauguration Day because of all the fraud and posted my thoughts - here I thought I could be honest on this board. I was completely FLAMED and brutally insulted for saying "guys, nothing is likely to change come January" and not wearing rose-colored glasses about the fraud investigations changing the election results. I NEVER said "give up" on investigating the rampant fraud, but countless people told me to "go away" if I didn't want to fight and other nasty things. I was insulted for being young, called names, told to STFU, told to kiss people's asses, told I was 'posturing', told I was exploiting a friend's death....ALL BECAUSE I SAID THE CHANCES OF KERRY BEING PRESIDENT IN JANUARY WERE SLIM TO NONE. Perhaps I am too sensitive, but forgive me for not shouting "KERRY WILL BE THE PRESIDENT!!!!!!" all over this board since Tuesday. Forgive me for saying that until we get some backbone in this party we will be doomed to repeat these mistakes. I am SO bloody sorry for not conforming to the rigid expectations of the oh-so-mature "adults" and DARING to question what the older posters had to say.

I have NO doubt many of you will post away here with wonderfully ignorant and hurtful things now that I decided I am leaving (I can only imagine how many "see ya" and "don't let the door hit you on the way out" posts will follow), but I just have to say that yes I am young, and I got involved with politics mainly because of my friend's death. But the attitue of many on this board does nothing but alienate people like me. I will NEVER be a Republican EVER, but if this is how Democrats treat each other than I guess I'll try the Greens. Perhaps they know how to treat people with dissenting opinions with some miniscule amount of respect.

So Congratulations, "adults"! You've chased me off - a stupid, naive, posturing, ignorant young voter who exploits her friends' deaths for.....what? Who knows, apparently you all have all the answers and I don't. But it's this kind of attitude that does not embrace new thoughts or dissentions that tells people to STFU, that is destroying our Party - a party that I thought represented the ideals of this country.

It was great to get to know many of you, and I hope those of you who know me will stay in touch. See you at the polls in 2006.
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Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. (beep)-I-am-a-lifelong-democrat-but-(beep)
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Quit being a martyr
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 10:52 PM by sparosnare
and get back in the fight. If you change your tone a bit we may take you seriously.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. no one has the answers, only ideas and opinions
that is what the forum is about. There are no absolutes

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Wat_Tyler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sorry, I fail to understand.
Why would an internet board colour your opinion of the Democratic Party?
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Fenris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
41. Don't answer, it's a trap!
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Wat_Tyler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #41
56. Phew! Thanks Admiral Ackbar!
That was a close one.
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BelleCarolinaPeridot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. You will get over it in about 5 minutes ...
And you will continue to post .
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requiem99 Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out! No quitters allowed!
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sad to hear
Public argument can be for the thick skinned, and even those wear
thin on such stressful weeks as this has been.

I hope you take some time off and heal... and come back when you
feel right. Death is forever. You are welcome back, if you so
choose.

Many of us here have taken months breaks, and all i can say, is that
i've just written this post...and maybe i'll never write another.
Likely i will.

This has been an emotional and dramatic week. I hope that the adults
can keep their emotional balance together to stick with the good
fight. Heck, did you see that Elisabeth Edwards wrote a post!!

Good fortune to you wherever you wind up.

peace,
-s
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. i would rather you stayed
these are the difficult times. we all feel like shit. scream it! we have been fucked by fuckers that want to really fuck us now. you have much to offer. youth has more power than any other age. you are the consumers all corporate pigs need to appeal to. you have the energy and are pure of heart. if you have been offended, get used to that, get tough, fight back. stand up for your ideas but be open to others'.
in the vietnam days, it was only the youth that fought against the war. we had hardly any elders. this movement includes a plethora. including lawyers guns and money.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. i get the feeling in the universal scheme of things that bush will
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 10:57 PM by seabeyond
remain the president. it will be interesting if he is called down and kerry ends up with it. i think sometimes it may be a be careful what you wish for. oh how horrible that would be. think ten times the attack clinton had. ten times less support than clinton. i just think about the damn supreme court

but if you enjoy it on here, than stay. so people dont agree with you on that. i think the wave, momentum is that something is up. respectfully i can understand your point. why everyone is jumping on everyone being a freeper i dont know, but simply dont take it personally.

if this site is helping you stay, if not, take a break and come back.
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ever_green Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. buck up! we're devestated, we don't want to give up hope
is that so hard to understand? Don't take it personally for crying out loud.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Better get some asbestos on your ass.
You need it here. It's hard to be honest, even on-line.
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. good for you for standing up for yourself
I, too, have found that intolerance runs rampant on these boards. Although I am one of the ones holding onto that slim hope that something will come of the voter fraud charges (and I have been flamed on other boards for saying so), I respect your right to express your opinion without people being so obnoxiously rude.

I'm pretty new here and am familiar with only a few handles (names) on these boards. Therefore, I can't say that I've read many--if any--of your posts. But this one I take notice. You are an obviously intelligent, articulate person. I am very sorry for the loss of your friend. I hope you will reconsider leaving. Yours sounds like an important voice here. If nothing else, maybe it will help you develop a thicker skin.

Peace,
AL
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Unfortunately, not everyone "grieves" in the same manner
and no one has all the answers.. My advice to you, would be to take a break, and check back in a few months, when the wounds are less "bloody"..

Since you are young,you will have a lot more time to "fix" things than some of us.. Perhaps that's why you percieved so much anger. There are those of us whose old age has suddenly been made a whole lot bleaker, and we do not have the advantage of time to correct much..

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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. What are you talking about?
Difference of opinion does not equate being harrassed.

As far as spine goes, I'll give it to the democrats 100% over the GOP who had their party taken over by Robertson and Falwell and self-serving elitists. The democrats fight for health rights, equal rights, job opportunities for all and decent wages. As this election shows us, one party had spine and it wasn't the GOP.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Try to remember that we are all in shock and are apt to attack...
anyone or anything that seemingly disempowers us even more. I would caution patience in this. Perhaps I am far too trusting, but I feel that there is something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. I said it before, and I'll say it again, Kerry is most dangerous when he's quiet. Don't give up on the board, tehre are a lot of very fine people here, but right now we're all probably fear biters.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. After 51 years of life, I am still inclined to trust my instincts...
and they tell me that this is not completely over. Kerry is not *, and never will be. I would like to know upon what evidence you base your claim that he is a fascist like *. No fascist I have ever known or read about would have been inclined to do what Kerry did in the 70s, just the opposite, they would have simply followed the status quo, kinda like some peoplein, say, the Texas Air National Guard.
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bri_in_austin Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. I hope you don't leave
People were probably not nice to you because they were devastated by the election results as well. They probably were jerks because they want to have hope instead of feeling suicidal like that kid who blew his brains out at the world trade center sight yesterday.

People are just very reactive right now because the election was a big setback and some will cope with it by feeling it was a conspiracy, some will cope with it by saying we lost, now what...people will cope with it in different ways, but please don't leave. We need you. In a few weeks people will have cooled off a bit, and you'll see that democrats are nice people and just really tender and sore right now because we just got beat up by a bully (i.e. bush).
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. You should read this about differences of opinion
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2634968

and also understand that NOBODY wanted to hear what you were saying at the time. Many of us still can't believe it happened, and holding out some hope for SOMETHING cushions the blow.

I still hope you won't leave, and that your statement is proved to be wrong (that we're stuck w/ that asshat-in-chief for four more years.
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Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. You gotta know that people are angry now and
right now it's not just about John Kerry being president, it's about the will of the people not being heard. Our country can't handle the jeopardy this will put us in if this continues. Right now the focus should be on "what the hell happened with these votes" because it's clear that "irregularities" happened. (fraud, but will save that for another thread) Telling us that John Kerry will not be in the WH in January doesn't do alot for the morale, especially when we already feel like we have been shit on by this administration.


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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. You know, I am a very sensitive person, even thought I may
not seem like it by some of the things I post and when I first came here I felt hurt and slighted and attacked constantly. I would lay low for periods and then come back to check it out just to get information.

However, I decided that I was tired of always backing down because of my sensitivity and took it as a personal challenge to defend myself, stick up for what I believe in and most of all, speak my mind freely regardless of what other people thought. And I have come through it much better. Part of it is just catching on to the culture here, and part of it is learning not to take other people so seriously.

Believe in your convictions and let the negative comments slide off your back - there are a lot of good people here too! If people get really nasty you can always give them a dose of their own medicine, alert on them if it's personal or the hardest thing of all, try to see if there is any merit in what they are saying. I see DU as a learning experience and though I have made my fair share of faux pas and mistakes, I learn to move on, which is something I could never do before. Hope you stay, I have enjoyed reading some of your posts! Take care! :)
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seraph Donating Member (895 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. Most everyone is still awesome and friendly...


Except those who are buying into this "The left needs to discover Jesus bullshit", and the low life freeptards who are trying to disrupt this place.


You can leave, that's freedom.

Your choice.


See ya.



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lolamio Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. It's been a tough week...
Give people the benefit of the doubt, kwim? I've been around message boards a long time (not this one obviously), and I've seen many a "good-bye, I'm leaving" post. Usually, it just means the person needs to take a break and clear their head. If that is the case for you, go ahead and take a breather. It does help! However, if you really do feel as you say you do in your post, then maybe you should move on. In any event, keep fighting the good fight wherever it may be. Peace. :)
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. "Stupid, naive, posturing, ignorant"........
So you believe you're incapable of growth? I think you're giving up on yourself too soon, but, in that case, the Greens may well be the best place for you.

You only seem to be aware of your own pain. Not the smallest clue to the agony being experienced by others on this board. You could grow out of that. Or you could find a home with the Greens.

BTW, calling people "asshole" in personal messages is probably not the way to win friends anywhere.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. A post like this and done?
Congratuations. You've managed to garner a lot of replies with this one. Hey listen - the GOP is calling.
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JohnnyCougar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh, my god...if people are idiots, just ignore them.
If you can do it with freepers i everyday life, why can't you do it here? I suggest you not take personal attacks over the internet so personally.

Take a break for a day or too, but don't leave our community. many of us are extremely stressed out right now. I would cut everyone a little extra slack. Things will be back to normal soon enough.

Hang in there, friend! :pals:
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flygal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
52. What he said!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. My guess is that people reacted
to what you actually wrote: "I'm begging you .... stop with the 'it isn't over yet' posts." That is distinct from what you wrote here. It's important to be honest.

You also said people weren't giving links or supporting evidence. They had, in fact, done just that.

Kerry has lost, and this effort will not change that. But it is something that can and should be followed up on. It may keep the level of fraud from occuring again. It can also help to discredit Bush and the republican machine.

It sounds like you got your feelings hurt. But don't let that stop you from participating here. It might be as simple as that while you are entitled to your own opinion, a couple things you said were wrong. Do you have problems with admitting when you are wrong? Do you tend to cut off relationships rather than admitting an error? This might be an opportunity to change a pattern.

I'd hope that you think this over, and come back tomorrow.
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gmoney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. Don't let it get to you... a lot of raw nerves around here
People have a hair trigger these days, and have had enough bad news for a lifetime, plus all the evidence that we're being cheated seems like it's not going to get any play in the MSM and that * is going to get away with stealing the presidency yet again.

A lot of us are also scared what four more years will mean...

Rationally, we're all right with you. Don't let flared temper rations get to you.

Stick around, please.
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Dastard Stepchild Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
27. Well if ya wanna be a Dem...
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 11:12 PM by sjbech
don't let a bunch of people on a website chase ya away. I love DU, but it's but one piece of the political puzzle. Bad manners - such is life.... you can find it on the street, online.. pretty much anywhere people are attempting to express themselves. If someone says "go away," thank them for the suggestion and move on to the next post. I think it is part and parcel with being in an online community - everyone gets sniped at. Best not to take it personally.

(edited for spelling)
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
28. You have to have thick cyberskin on this board.
Trust me.;-)
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. I just read the post in question
and I found that you received just as much support--and much more neutral--than you got flamed. As many people say here, take it with a grain of salt. There are many different personalities here and many different ways to deal with grief (anger being one of the steps in the process). Many tempers are hot. Not everyone has great social skills, and I've found the anonymity of this method of communication prompts people to be meaner or ruder than they would be in a f2f conversation. I've been guilty of it myself.

I appreciate your frustration, friesenrider. I am sick about the outcome. I have been depressed all week (I lost my dog on Tuesday, as well). I NEED to hold onto the hope, however far out, voter fraud gives me. And I will do what I can to ensure it sees the light of day. I do not believe Bush has a mandate and I refuse to go quietly. And that's my perspective. Please respect it as much as I respect yours.

Peace,
AL
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. sorry about your doggie
When the little happy devoted people die, it is heart rendering,
that any election is but an ephemeral event.

I've got tears streaming down my cheecks... i love dogs, and when
someone loses such companianship, i can only feel deep sympathy.

God bless you and your woofer's departed spirit,

-s
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American liberal Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #32
58. thank you, sweetheart, but
he didn't die. I'm sorry I was so vague. I had to take him to the pound because my neighbors complained so much about his barking. It was really hard. He's really a great dog. But I am sure he will find a new home in a single family house instead of a condo right away.

I had only adopted him 10 days before. I tried to convince my neighbors to give us more time, that he just needed some time and training...but they wouldn't hear of it. It was a terrible, terrible situation. Thanks for your sympathy, nevertheless.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. The wonderful world of barking collars
I once had a problem with a woofer wanting to be a bit too vocal,
and i got one of those electronic barking collars. It has a little
microphone in it, and when it hears a bark starting, it immediately
sends a little zap and the dog gets instant feedback. It took
like zero time to stop errant barking with such a collar and it
was not the least bit cruel, as once the dog discovered the feeback,
it pretty much learned right fast.

One collar helped me cure 3 dogs of backyard barking whilst in
a london suburb. I wholly recommend one, if you are ever in such
a situation again.

Good that you didn't lose a loved one. :-) Wish we could all say
that, but surely some people in falluja cannot say so.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. Don't give up, friesianrider.
Edited on Sun Nov-07-04 11:20 PM by 4_year_nightmare
As one of the older adults here, take it with a grain of salt. I'm asking you to stay.

I'm also one of those who have been around long enough to know something's rotten with this election, but I don't fault you because you're skeptical. If you're a skeptic, then you're a thinker who questions things. Nothing wrong with that.

Tomorrow's another day -- hope to see you back on board. :)
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LauraT28 Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
31. Screw em! I share your sentiments completely...
Both parties serve the same Facist Master agenda..All you have to do is look at the laws and bills that come out of Govt, and it's easy to see who our so called "leaders" side with. People or Business? You tell me..I think the political process is DEAD. It's now going to be a grass roots, Us against them thing that is going to build. True patriotic Americans against Facism.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
35. i revere the involvement of the young in our struggle
whatever you do, whether you're coming or going from DU, please do all you can to fight against the evil empire ... i would politely suggest to you that blaming "Democrats" for the insensitivity you experienced with some people on DU seems a bit inappropriate ...

if you're thinking of going Green, i would hope you would base your decision on issues and effectiveness rather than on personalities ... i'm sure there are nice Greens and not-so-nice Greens ...

anyway, fwiw, many good things happen on DU ... i'm sorry to hear you had some bad experiences with some of our members ... btw, i'm an "older poster" and you can question anything I say anytime you want ... i hope you reconsider your decision to leave but wish you luck in whatever you choose ... and i hope wherever you do it, you continue the struggle for justice ...

people like yourself need to educate and energize your generation ... the struggle for the future is being waged today based on what we teach our young people and what they teach themselves ...
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Nicely said,welshTerrier2...
I agree, and tried to say many of the same things, but I think she is gone, at least for now. Sad.
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-07-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. thanks miki
we have such evil confronting us, it always amazes me that we get entangled in these unproductive personal battles ... i understand that we are a very large community and not all of us are "fully evolved" ... but there is an unquestionable passion here to fight against the evil and to honor freedom and democracy ...

knowing that we're all soldiers in the same army usually allows me to look past a minor character flaw or two ...

oh, btw, all my best to mini ...
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Good vibes back to you as well...it has been a difficult...
week and it is unlikley to get better quickly. I was on one of the flamefests over in GD earlier and the division was ugly. I keep reminding myself of what my sponsor told me year ago about 'patience and tolerance'. Helps to keep things in perspective. Unfortunately, mini has decided not to come back, but I have taken up with Clarabelle on the side.:evilgrin:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
39. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
40. stick around-- but try the greens anyway....
At least until the democratic party stops trying to stake out positions to the right of Richard Nixon....
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
42. DAMN IT! I will miss you FR.
I got your e-mail address though so I can keep in touch :thumbsup:
Damnit anyway :-(
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BOOGEX Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
43. You have a point
I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience here. I wouldn't give up entirely on the Democratic party though, just because of one online community. DU represents just a fraction of the party.

I agree with your message though. It's ironic that you were called immature and criticized for being young when it seems that many of the people here are being quite naive themselves. I haven't posted much to DU but I've been reading the posts for about a year, and the impression I've gathered is that a lot of the people here are a bit unrealistic. I think that your message was actually quite mature and realistic. The Democratic party would benefit from more people like you. Give it another chance.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Ah, we offer a difference of opinion
and it's criticism? The democratic party would benefit by less Boogex. Probably yet another troll who can hardly wait to tell Falwell/Robertson about his evangelical captures.
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BOOGEX Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #44
49. ...
Less Boogex??? That's absurd. I can't see how anyone can benefit from LESS Boogex.

Perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my last post. The point I wanted to make was that too often, when a person posts a message on DU that is not entirely, 100% optimistic, that person is immediately attacked for being untrue to the Democratic party or whatnot. And all I'm saying is that I can't see how that is productive.

I love DU, and I think it's a community of some really great, bright people. I think it's an excellent forum for generating ideas and providing democrats with support and motivation. What I hate to see is when fellow Dems are attacking each other and discouraging the free flow of ideas. If someone says something that might be perceived as being pessimistic, that person shouldn't be immediately attacked, because it discourages the expression of a wide range of ideas.

I don't see pessimism as being necessarily negative. It can be negative; it can discourage and deplete morale, but it can also be something possitive. Pessimism can be a challenge to an established paradigm. It can raise awareness of problems, and create an opportunity to introduce new approaches. So when someone says, "I don't think anything is going to come of the vote fraud investigation, and Bush will still be president on inauguration
day," I don't take it as in insult to the Democratic party. I think it raises the question that perhaps a new approach to reaching our goals should be considered.

Basically, my point is that personal attacks on people for expressing their feelings and opinions discourages open discourse, and that is more negative than pessimism.
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Dastard Stepchild Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #49
61. You totally got troll-called :)
n/t
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Dastard Stepchild Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
60. Yeah... the Boog isn't a trolll...
seriously. I don't marry trolls.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
45. "a stupid, naive, posturing, ignorant young voter"
You said it, not us.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
46. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE STAY!!!!
Keep in mind that 95% posts are positive and it's the 5% of mean ones that we all seem to remember and notice. Also, people are much more likely to say mean things in Cyber Space than in person. I hope you will stay and continue to contribute. You sound like a great person!
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
47. "Absurd beliefs" -That's your comment on the amazing work done on DU.
(Para 2 in your original post) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2634455#2634755

Who are you to tell those peope to stop posting? You deserve to be flamed.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
48. I understand your frustration
I was treated nearly as badly when I first came to DU. I guess you just need to develop a thick skin around here because there's not only a lot of older people willing to attack, but a lot of younger conservative Democrats doing the same (for those of us who lived through the late 60s and early 70s, most Dems are very conservative now). Plus people are unusually on edge; I know I'm not taking any shit from trolls screaming "move right! Hate the gays! Embrace Christian fundies!"any more. Still, we need to try to curb our defensiveness-I do agree with you there.

Maybe you would like to read this thread before you decide that all hope is lost: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2636458
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. Just take a couple days off and you'll get over it
I have to do that for a day or so every once in a while. Not so much for personal attacks against me, but for those against my husband (er, the military) or my parents (er, I mean red-staters) or my childhood friends (er, I mean people that aren't elitists).

Some people here just like to be elitists. I, personally, believe all people -- uneducated/educated, rich/poor, beautiful/unattractive, young/old, elitists/everyone else -- are equal and all deserve to be heard.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
51. I never thought I'd say this, but...
If I have one thing to thank DU for (and there is not one thing, there are many) it is steeling my heart, thickening my skin, and hardening my ass.

I sang my swansong oh, probably 2, 2-1/2 years ago, and guess who's still here?

Incidentally, last Tuesday was the first time I'd posted to DU in MONTHS. When the anti-gay crap gets to be too much to handle, I take a much-needed break, usually for months at a time.

But I know, instinctly, when I am NEEDED at DU just as much as I NEED to get what I get out of DU. So here I am. I may be here steadily for the next four years, or I may disappear again because somewhere, sometime, some bigot has pushed me too far over the line again, and I can't trust myself to engage in anything even resembling civil discourse. That may happen tonight. Or it may not.

So, with the sincerest of intentions, and the greatest empathy for the way you are feeling right this second, either wimp out and go to your corner to let the rest of us fight your battles for you, or GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR AND DO YOUR DUTY, for yourself AND for your country.

'Cause, kid, you're of no damned good to yourself or anybody else hiding in a closet.

I hope you get pissed off at this post and confront me -- because you need to ENGAGE.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
53. I left once for awhile.
Forums are brutal places, especially for sensitive souls. Add politics to the equation and boy!

I would ask you to give it a little perspective, then return if you can. This resource for fighting is too valuable to turn your back on. I couldn't stay away because I needed the information so desperately. We all do.

Next time there is a fund-raiser, I'll give more than a measly $5.

Other DUers, please remember that some of us are very sensitive. We are put together differently. We are wounded more easily and take longer to heal. That doesn't mean we don't have a lot to offer. :) It takes all kinds.

:grouphug:
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Yes.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
55. If you Love it here so much stay!!
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 03:46 AM by LibertyorDeath
For the most part people here are "awesome and friendly"

but you have to realize as a new poster if you post something
remotely freepish in GD with emotions running as high as they
are you will be eaten alive.

It's not personal it's just there is a big frustration level here
because the smart ones & the ones with common sense Know that
Diebold ES&S & Sequoia fucked us but good all 3 owned & or operated by Rethugs and NO WAY TO VERIFY YOUR VOTE Where I come from that spells Fraud it's just common sense.

If you got false hope that's your choice to hope or not is your choice.

There are thousands and thousand of Posters here sometimes you take a shot to the gut defending your point of view that's just part of give & take.

This place has been crawling with Freeptards lately they will flame the living shit out of you while they pretend to be a good DUer.

If you Love it here so much stay!!

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i_c_a_White_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
57. Ya gotta take a few flames
come on grow some skin. These past few weeks have been tough on everyone but you don't see me running
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Droopy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
62. I share your feelings on the election.
I think the chances are pretty slim that the election is going to be overturned and I've said as much in a thread I started a few says ago. But I'm not giving up on those working behind the scenes right now to expose the fraud that took place.

I've been involved in some flame wars here myself. It does bother me when it happens, but I usually get over it in a day or two.

Take some time off from DU. Your feelings about the flame war that occurred will not be so intense after a break. Then come back and start making new memories that will bury the old ones.
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
63. LOL...
I probably had 200 posts when I heard Randi say something snarky about Al in the first days of AAR....soooooo I posted a thread entitled "Rift at Air America?" LOL...I had my ass handed to me....I was a freeper...a molester of lambs....benedict arnold...you get the point...
I'm still here.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
64. I'm moved
Think you're the only one that has been called a freeper type or such here? Get over the thick skin. Join the debate. Post your feelings. Not everyone will agree with everything you have to say. I've been attacked on my posts before. No one is immune. No one wishes harm.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
65. DU doesn't Represent the democrat sentiment
What goes on in DU doesn't represent the majority of Democrats and you should not blame Democrats for the behavior in DU.

Remember that the name of this site is Democratic UNDERGROUND and not Democratic mainstream. :-)

Take care!
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
66. Fighting Fascism is hard work
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Amaya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
67. Don't be so dramatic
Why do you need to post to announce you're done? Just be done.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
68. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dora Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
69. Irresponsible and Thoughtless

For goodness' sake, this is a place for dialogue, silly rabbit. If you want people to agree with you, that's only going to happen some of the time. We may all be Democrats, but we still have different ideas.

Expecting DU to conform to whatever it is your vague expectations are is unrealistic.

OH, and congratulations on racking up so many posts so quickly. Perhaps that accomplishment can salve your wounds.
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