David Shuster on gay marriage bans ("logic... in short supply these days")

[high density]

A loss for true conservatism (David Shuster)

On Tuesday, eleven different states outlawed gay marriage.

The basic argument I heard was not about marriage (more on that below) but about being gay. And a majority of voters seem to believe that homosexuality is an "immoral lifestyle choice."

Hmmmm. The problem is that anybody who has a relative or friend who is gay also knows it is not a "choice." It is something wired into the genes of approximately 3 or 4 percent of the human population in every single culture on the planet. Secondly, when it comes to morality, consider this: While the Bible does suggest homosexuality is an abomination (Leviticus 18:22), The Bible also says in Leviticus 25:44 that we may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations; Exodus 35:2 says that my neighbor who works on the Sabbath should be put to death; Lev. 19:27 expressly forbids men from getting their hair trimmed; Lev. 11:6-9 states that touching a dead pig makes us unclean (Are you ready for some football?) and Lev. 19:19 forbids us from planting two different crops in the same field or wearing garments made of two different kinds of threat. The penalty? Lev. 24:10-16 suggests we stone people to death.

Maybe some Americans want to return to the days of slavery, devout observance to the Sabbath, long hair, all cotton clothes, and stoning people... I would prefer that our society move forward.

More: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6385026/#041107

[Sapphocrat]

1. Finally! Somebody GOT IT!

I've been trying to get the point across that the whole issue has nothing do with same-sex marriage, per se, but about the fact that we LGBTs exist in the first place.

I don't know what the anti-gay voters think gutting our chance at equal rights will do to eliminate the "problem" of gay people in the world. (What worries me is the day they figure out that turning us all into outlaws didn't eliminate the existence of homosexuality. Prepare to board the trains...!)

Thanks for posting this!

[ropi]

2. i am with you on those fears, sappho

i am just waiting for the trains..how long will it be?

[Sapphocrat]

4. I think we're relatively safe until at least 2008...

Even if the Nazis sweep 2006 (God forbid), and pass their own little Paragraph 175, it's going to take a while to organize everything. Then, of course, there's the issue of who will round us up, and where all those armed guards are going to come from -- sending half the National Guard to the Middle East has left the U.S. virtually un-Guarded.

They can't spare any police officers to do any but the most perfunctory round-up work, or there will be complete civil chaos as no one would be left to respond to all the usual 911 calls -- and that's assuming the majority of Americans police officers would cave in to The Plan. (Personally, I expect my local police would protect me with their lives. What are they going to do, eliminate all the good cops first?)

Now, of course, there is the upcoming draft, so they could conceivably have all the stormtroopers they need -- but first they have to get a draft approved, then actually start drafting, training, etc., etc.

I'd be surprised if they could pull off The Final Solution before * bids adieu in 2008 -- and by that time, we Dems should be able to get our sh*t together.

At worst, ChimpCo will run out of time, and something horrible will happen at the eleventh hour, and they'll blame the gay folks all over again.

Beyond 2008, I just don't know. But off the cuff, I think the above timeline would be an unrealistically-escalated one.

The thing is to stop it before it ever gets to phase one -- and NOT let our disbelieving friends be lulled into a false sense of "It can't happen here."

You didn't think I was going to give you a straight answer, did you? :D

Feel a wee bit better?

[foreigncorrespondent]

5. Bubs...

...this must be a first, that you are I actually don't agree on something politically. LOL

I say giving them until 2008 is generous. And saying that you may win 2008 is generous as well.

I see the trains coming some time with in the next two years. They want people to round the queers up? Hell they have a lot of fundie idiots who would be more than happy to answer that calling.

As for the camps themselves, do you remember about 3+ years ago that thread at the old DU about the concentration camps? If I remember correctly it was about cncentration camps that already exist in the U.S. but the public know nothing about them.

As for getting it passed. Hell I think it is gonna be done under the table***, or this will be a Bush* executive order.

Winning the '08 presidential election I think is going to be a lost cause as well. Or should I say, another stolen cause?

Seriously, how many people have been to wrapped in their own little world of bigotry since last Tuesday that they decided it was more important to blame the pesky queers for the loss, than to actually get involved in getting the fuckng diebold machines taken out of the U.S. election system?

Unless more people get behind the BBV cause and begin working to get these bullshit touch screen election steelers into the dump, '08 will be stolen, no matter who they run, and no matter who we run.

***I have a feeling the may slip something into the new FMA, that is why I said to you, we need to read the wording of the new FMA very closely when the bitch from hell re-introduces it. And the new FMA will pass this time. I have no doubts in my mind about that what so ever.

[Sapphocrat]

6. You could be right...

It wouldn't be the first time. ;)

Well, all I can say here is that you already know I've given a contingency plan much serious thought. (Now, if somebody up in, say, Sonoma County, would just volunteer to be my first stop on the railroad...!)

[foreigncorrespondent]

7. I don't want to think I am right, though.

I would really like to think the dream about this I had last night, really sent me through the ringer, but my gut is hardly ever wrong.

Even last week I kept telling you Kerry would win. I never once said though, that he would take office. Remember the dream I had? The one where Kerry won, but Bush* was still in office. And I just can't get past this concentration camp thing. I have the same deep seeded feeling in side me again. And that scares me.

And yes, I know you said about a constingency plan, but I also rememebr a while ago stating right here on DU that is Bush* ever got back in, I would begin asking you to leave. No forget asking I would bloody well demand it.

Bush* and the neocons are no friends of ours. We need to watch them very closely because they will come after us. And seriously, if it gets as bad as my gut is telling me, I really do want you out of there.

Sorry to get deep, love, but, I guess I am just not in such a light mood about any of this.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. What scares me.

The thing that scares me is that the "good" Christians think that America was attacked because of the gays! The country is decaying because of the gays! The children are in danger because of the gays! These are the people who voted The Fascist into office! I am also scared of so-called liberals. They are so quick to say, "I have gay friends, I fight for them!" But, since we lost the election, he hear them say, "You (gays) cost of the election! You couldn't wait to get married?! How selfish!" Who is scarier the right or the left? At least with the right you can see them coming!

We (gays and lesbians) are in deep trouble in this country! We will see the erosion of our rights, as few as they are. We will see little support from our "allies." The true allies will be in danger like us, but they can always retreat into the safety of "straight-dom." We cannot!

The cattle cars will be coming, they just won't look like the cattle cars of Nazi Germany; Rove will avoid that comparison! The GLBT of the US are in grave danger and anyone that thinks we are not is a fool!

[foreigncorrespondent]

9. I agree with you 100%

At least with those on the right, we already know what to expect with them, but when we get attacked by some on the left, that is when it gets dangerous, because we don't see them coming.

Tell me gay DUers, how many of you saw the trend that we cost Kerry the election coming, before it happened? I bet not many saw it!

[nofurylike]

3. great read, thank you for posting it, high density! n/t

[high density]

10. kick for the evening crowd

:kick: