Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The election was stolen. Do not buy into the "unity" and "healing"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:54 PM
Original message
The election was stolen. Do not buy into the "unity" and "healing"
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 03:00 PM by Zorra
message that the republicans are trying to promote. They are trying to get us to accept Bu$h as a legitimate president, which he can never be. The republicans are pushing a one party fascist state.

Apparently the media is being coerced into not presenting the evidence of the mass voting irregularities that took place nationwide.

There is only one reason, and one reason alone, that republicans forced Americans to vote with electronic voting machines that can not be audited: So they could easily steal the election.

We must resist, and stand our ground. Spread the word that voter fraud has occurred, because the media will not.

I have been pamphleteering, printing out stories about voter fraud and distributing them. I particularly like the House Judiciary Committee letter, signed by Cong. John Conyers, Jerrold Nadler and David Wexler, to Comptroller Walker at the GAO.

This letter is particularly effective because the letterhead that says "Congress of the United States" immediately gives legitimacy to my presentation. The rest of the information that I present afterward, which is from very reputable news sources, is then validated and usually read with interest.

Here is a pdf. of the House Judiciary Committee letter:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/gaoinvestvote2004ltr11504.pdf
General Strike. Boycott.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Paxdora Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nope.
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. i say wear your kerry pin again
and when people ask why, tell them, the vote was stolen, waiting for the real count to begin
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. may I suggest not doing this?
Wearing a Kerry pin immediately compromises the message, as people will not see past it. The votes belong to the people - all the people - not to Kerry.

Don't walk into the "sour grapes" trap and reinforce the Republican "Dems will do anything to win" propaganda. This about the survival of the country, not the success of the Kerry campaign.

Many Bush supporters will support overthrowing a corrupt election. we need as many people as possible on board and we need the message to be as clear and unambiguous as possible. Certainly Kerry and Kerry voters were screwed, but that is not sufficient cause for action. The American people were abused, as were future generations. Democracy is more important than a Democratic candidate's campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. you certainly can suggest
why i put it out there. i absolutely dont think it is about kerry i agree with what you say. i am looking for a way to say this to the people so they will be open to the words. i have been in isolation since the election. and the repugs in my life, i dont look them in the eyes. they are staying kinda away too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. we misread many Bush voters
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 03:35 PM by m berst
I don't think they are happy for the most part. On some level, everyone can sense that there is something wrong. Bush voters have been betrayed badly.

The two things IMHO that are most effective:

- Contact members of the House and tell them to support Conyers, Wexler and Nadler

- Talk to everyone you know - and don't know - as though your life depended upon it

First your family, then your friends, then your neighbors, then everybody you ever knew and then everybody you meet - always, as the first thing, everywhere.

If just ten people did this as though their life depended upon it, it would be around the country in a week. You have never had anything so important to communicate. Get started. It WILL succeed. The sooner it does, the less painful and dangerous it will be for all of us.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I've been thinking of wearing my Kerry pin.
I want to remind people that we are out there, that we are not going to melt away or be made invisible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. we are at risk of losing our vote
Not our buttons, or even our candidate. No vote, no freedom. No freedom, no America.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mstrsplinter326 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. bad link nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. YES we have to insist on voter verified paper trails. VIVA LA RESISTANCE
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. no
It is too late for that. We need THIS election thoroughly investigated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Yes. This election needs to be thoroughly investigated as of yesterday.
Every day that passes is another day that more evidence disappears.

Campaign to starve the beast thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2600099&mesg_id=2600099&page=
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Not paper trails...
paper ballots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. Link bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks, fixed it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Even if the election was not stolen, what's wrong with "Opposition"?
Totally legal, constitutional, but working against the party whose ideas you find repellent. Our reps need to oppose, filibuster, speak up loudly & work with the few remaining sane Republicans.

And we need to oppose in whatever way suitable. Protest, strike? Maybe. Boycott? Sure. Not shut up? Definitely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. yes
And the first thing they should oppose is the certification of this election until and unless there has been a coplete and thorough investigation.

Fail to oppose this, and every thing else will get harder and harder and harder to oppose.

Tell your Rep - take a stand. Here. Now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. The election was stolen. That is a given. But it was stolen in
2 definite ways. One--electronic machines, Two--the very right wing religious faction. To simply forget the very many reasons to vote Shrub out and concentrate on homophobia alone, is stupid. They are trying to cloak the homophobia in Defense of Marriage Act. I can only say if their marriages are in such dire trouble, hatred of homosexuals will not make them work. Hypocrites all!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Electronic voting devices must be scrapped. "Opposition" is great ,
of course. But within the framework of the current one party state that has been illegitimately created, I believe that we will find that the Constitution is considered moot by this republican government. The rules have changed, democracy is gone. IMO, we need to adjust the way we think about how the government works.

Yes, our reps need to do everything possible to prevent the further erosion of our democracy and the destruction of our country, but most republicans are ruthless and conscienceless. Their agenda is the consolidation of a permanent one party fascist state. They stole the government by cheating. They will continue to cheat and further their agenda and there is nothing we can do to stop them democratically. They own and control the media and the elections. We need to start thinking outside of the box to find alternative methods for regaining our democracy. Whatever it takes.

"We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto."

People really need to know that electronic voting devices were used by republicans to steal the election.

There is only one reason that voting machines that cannot be audited are used: To steal elections. That's it. Until these machines are scrapped, there will never be a genuinely democratic election.

General strike. Boycott.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. And your point is? Why not force them to vote on the paper trail bills?
I want to force the fascists to vote for crooked elections. Why not get behind this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Where did you get the impression that I was not in favor
Edited on Mon Nov-08-04 08:29 PM by Zorra
of voting on paper "trails"? I don't think that I indicated anything of that sort in my post. On the contrary, I have been trying to get the Committee on House Administration to vote on Rush Holt's Voter Confidence Act since he proposed it.

Unfortunately, Robert Ney, the republican that is the head of the Committee, is a fascist and there was no way he would ever bring it to a vote because he knows that inauditable electronic voting machines are how republicans steal elections and are the reason that the republican party is in power.

So, if you know a way to force them to vote on Rush Holt's or Bob Graham's bill, please let me know.

However, electronic voting machines are a complete waste of time and money, and IMO we need to use a simple pen and paper ballot system similar to the one used in Canada. There is so much less possibility of fraud in this type of system.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Ok lets not quible how to force the vote? In states with Ballot initatives
get the petition and the required signatures and force it on the ballot. Let the people decide. Where there is no ballor initarive process you have to go the resolution rought. Get the resolution and the signatures and give it to your elected officials. Then put the pressure on them to vote on it. Tell me about Committee on House Administration and Rush Holt's Voter Confidence Act
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Good Lord, you don't even know? Here ya go:
Text of Bill

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:H.R.2239:

Sponsors and co-sponsors

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR02239:@@@P

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.02239:

Robert Ney is largely responsible for the current division that exists among the American people over the 2004 Presidential election. Robert Ney does not want our voting process to be recountable. Given his response posted below, it is quite obvious that he knew that electronic voting machines were going to be used to commit voter fraud and throw the election to Bu$h.

The current division over the 2004 election stems directly from the lack of accountability that is inherent in a voting system that cannot be recounted.

Robert Ney is largely responsible for the division of the American people today, and for the next 4 or more years.

July 15, 2004
Dear Colleague,
Recently I received a letter from Governor Howard Dean pertaining to voting machine security. Governor Dean’s letter was also addressed to all Members of Congress, so I thought you might be interested in reading my response, which I have attached.
Sincerely,
S/BOB NEY
Chairman

Text of Dean Letter
June 22, 2004
To the Honorable Robert Ney and the Congress of the United States:
We must act now to ensure that our voting systems produce accurate and verifiable results. Some states are planning to use machines that will not allow voters to verify their choices. This means that any flaws in the machine or software will never be caught – and no recount will be possible.

And the head of the largest e-voting machine company – who is a major contributor to George Bush and has promised to deliver Ohio to him – asks that we just trust him.

Today we call on you to require any electronic voting machine used in this election to produce a paper trail – one that allows voters to verify their choices and officials to conduct recounts.
Signed,
S/Howard Dean
Governor Howard Dean, M.D.
and the following 127,469 Americans

Text of Ney Response
July 13, 2004
The Honorable Howard Dean
P.O. Box 8313
Burlington, VT 05402
Dear Governor Dean,

I am in receipt of your letter dated June 22, 2004 and the accompanying petition you indicate has been signed by 127,469 persons. I note your website continues to solicit signatures for the petition (along with contributions to your organization).

Left-wing groups like yours and America Coming Together that are exploiting this issue to inflame your supporters and raise money for yourselves are recklessly making claims that are unsupported by the facts. You should realize that if your demands to retrofit all electronic voting machines with printers before November 2004 were met, it would ensure an electoral meltdown that would make our last presidential election look orderly by comparison. In calling for nationwide deployment of a voting system that has never been used successfully in a single election in this country, you are doing a great disservice to the voting public you purport to defend.

The arguments of “paper trail” proponents like yourself can be boiled down to one central assertion, i.e., that paper ballots are the only way to ensure an accurate election. You should recall that the ballots cast in Florida in November 2000 were cast on paper. Furthermore, every documented episode of election fraud in our nation’s history has been perpetrated through the manipulation of paper ballots.

Reports that have circulated on electronic voting machine malfunctions would lead one to presume that other systems are somehow free of error—a demonstrably false presumption. For example, testimony by a Georgia election official at a recent House Administration Committee hearing on this subject indicated that, prior to the deployment of their modernized electronic voting system, Georgia’s error rate for a top of the ballot race was 4.8 percent. After the implementation of their new voting system, that error rate fell to a miniscule 0.87 percent. These figures translate into 71,000 voters whose votes were lost in the older paper-based system but whose votes were counted by the electronic system. Those lost votes were not imagined. They were real and should be acknowledged by the conspiracy theorists and others who are warning of unseen and unproven “dangers” posed by newer systems.

The issues surrounding the security of electronic voting are currently being reviewed by the Election Assistance Commission, in conjunction with the National Institute of Standards and Technology. I am confident the experts at these organizations are fully capable of determining the extent to which problems may exist with these systems, and if they do exist, making recommendations about how to address them. That is the appropriate way to handle this issue, not by making uninformed and premature legislative decisions based on misinformation and hysteria.

I was proud to be an author of the bi-partisan Help America Vote Act, and I am proud to work with my friends on both sides of the aisle in Congress who continue to support that legislation’s goal of making it easier for everyone to vote and harder for anyone to cheat. Implementation of that legislation is ongoing and as it continues, it will ensure that our elections are better administered and more open to everyone, including our fellow citizens who have some form of a disability. I hope that instead of persisting in making demands that would make our elections worse and less open to all, that you will work with me and the other Members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, who recognize that running clean and accurate elections should be a shared goal of everyone, regardless of party or ideology.
Sincerely,
S/Bob Ney

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kysrsoze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Yeah, don't buy into that divisive, elitist liberal B.S. either
They blame us for everything - it's their doing and it's what will eventually bring us all down if we don't fight it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Midnight Rambler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. I wouldn't buy into unity and healing
even if the election was 100% fair and incontrovertabtly so. shit, I wouldn't buy into it even if Bush had lost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
13. Exactly Zorra - bullies pull this when they are in the weeds.
It's like the "bi-partisanship" song and dance they play when the neo-cons want everyone to behave.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-08-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. I say be cheerful and pleasant to everyone. And do something ...
... every single day to stick it to the Republican Nazis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
27. Remember
"unity" and "healing" are code words for "sit down" and "shut up."

If they redo the entire election with a 100% verified paper trail, THAT would give us some healing.

Until then, they can shove their "unity."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. "If they redo the entire election with a 100% verified paper trail, THAT
would give us some healing."

Yes. Until that happens, they can "stick it".

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC