The Zell factor. Was Mr. Miller influential in this election?

[mzmolly]

If the election was lost in an honest manner (and lets fact it) it was too damn close for comfort regardless, then one has to look at why.

I honestly think Zell Miller was instrumental in this election after giving this some thought. What sparked this thought process you ask? Well, a moderate friend of my husband is "spewing" his spit ball bullshit in droves about why Dems lost his vote. He said "when the Democrats quit trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator they'll start to win again."

Lowest ... common ... denominator. :eyes:

I think the greatest mistake we made was underestimating that looney old bastard. We shoulda smeared his ass from here to Alaska!

/rant

That said, I don't think we'll have to worry too much about 2008. I really think people are going to see what end is up and the R's will have no one but themselves to blame for the state were in after another 4 wreckless years. Additionally, we MUST TAKE BACK THE MEDIA. Faux news is doing far more damage then we care to admit in this little echo chamber of ours.

EDITED TO ADD: Even if fraud played a role, the election was close enough for that to happen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Ok lets assume he is right

lowest comon denominatior what does he wantr that we go back to slavery times> Maybe Cotton Mather's Massachusets Bay Colony?

to hell with Zell

That said bush has no mandate and as long as the BBV issue is not solved, we will NEVER win an election, end of discusion

We could run Jesus Christ, forget it

[mzmolly]

3. True, if we don't take back our Democracy ... generally speaking were

in a heap o dung.

[Ducks In A Row]

2. zell didn't do shit. Diebold was all bush needed

all this crap is just distraction from the fraud.

remember, the WH has told to media to SHUT UP about election fraud, so any story in the media "explaining" bush winning is bullshit crap.

[mzmolly]

4. Like I said, the election was CLOSE regardless and if fraud isn't proven

we still have issues to address.

I think fraud might be a great thing for the RW to pontificate. Dems will not only not vote, but never address the issues that lead to their decline.

I remain open minded on the fraud issue, all eyes on New Hampshire.

[Ducks In A Row]

12. what issues? the need for bush to steal the election shows...

his message isn't the majority message.

[mzmolly]

13. The "ability" for him to do it should give pause regardless.

Bush was ahead in MOST polls, though by a narrow margin. Were he behind in a big way, theft would not have been an option.

[jzodda]

5. I think he is symbolic of something that is dead

I do not think he was influentual...The Chris Matthews interview after his crazed speech to the convention was even made a skit by Sat night live.

He was symbolic though of the death of the democratic party in the south. He is one of the last of a dying breed. He is right, that for people with his views, there is not a place in the democratic party.

People have been talking about it for a long time, but this time around we could really feel it and see it, and thats partly due to him.

[mzmolly]

7. He talked out of both sides of his arse. I don't really know what

"his views" are.

He praised John Kennedy, but smeared John Kerry.

[d_b]

6. He didn't win over

anyone with a brain, I can assure you that.

[mzmolly]

8. "With a brain"

Key point.

Unfortunately we have to appeal to the ignorant too because they make up a large cross section of America.

[FeelinGarfunkelly]

9. So maybe the opposite is true..

And he DID have an effect by winning over those without brains. The Scarecrow Effect, if you will.

[Cleita]

10. Methinks only if he were a hacker or an election official.

eom

[idiosyncratic]

11. God . . . I hope not. eom

[manic expression]

14. Most people probably forgot about him

awhile before the election.

[kvining]

15. Bubba needs love to

I live in the South. As a middle aged White dude, I will attest that the democrats have done an abysmal, miserable job of winning over my voter class. My guess is Miller was a lot more effective than we would like to admit. I think a lot of it has to do with the way we are phrasing issue. For example, I cringe whenever I hear "gay rights" - don't get me wrong, no one is more in favor of gay equality than I am, but I know what a loaded term this is for Bubba. We need to get away from "gay rights", "minority rights" and every term that identifies a group and start advocating "human rights", really the same thing said in a way Bubba understands.

We also need to drop support for Affirmative Action. The Civil Rights era is over, and social equality has been achieved in this country. Set-asides are now working tremendously against us with this voter group. Again, we need to stress workplace equality. We kill ourselves whenever we leave egalatarianism, something Bubba is extremely in favor of, and move into phrasing things like we want special rights for a given class of oppressed people.

Another area is Gun Rights. Like it or not, gun rights are in the Constitution, and doing something about it requires amending the Bill of Rights, something that is never going to happen. We need to accept it. Kerry made a major, major error with the Assault Weapons Ban thing. Gun owners are like hornets - you leave them alone and they don't cause trouble and many are willing to vote Democrat, but like hornets, you stir em up in the South and the Repugs will blow the "My Cold Dead Hands" horn and they will not listen to anything else. Howard Dean had this figured out, and scream or no scrram, I am now convionced he would have been the better candidate given his maligned opinions of winning over Bubba turned out to be prophetic. I think he realized that in the age of 9-11, Southern soccer mom is probably ok now with the fact that NASCAR Dad has a shotgun in the closet and Dad is best left alone about it. In addition, and this may sound radical in Democrat forum, but every time I hear Michael Savage, I'm glad I've got mine, and suggest you do the same. There is a reason for that amendment, and Dems may find out what its for at the rate we are going.

Healthcare is where we really screw up. We just make it so damn complicated. We need to present healthcare reform as simple as possible, a simple single payer government monopoly like Fanny Mae or the Federal Reserve, and get the hell away from complicated baloney like Hillary's boondoggle and the mish-mash Kerry just tried to float. I think this is the Achilles heel issue for the Repugs in the South. They sour Bubba on it every time by pulling out graphs and showing it as another government nightmare that will cost him more than he saves. Simple, simple, simple.

Most of all, we could do a lot better job of pointing out Jesus was a leftist.

[mzmolly]

17. Thanks for your insight. I do agree that Dean was/is a profit.

I hope he's the next Chair of the DNC.

:hi:

[theboss]

16. I don't know if it had that major an impact...

But it could have cemented the belief among Southern whites that the Democratic Party has abandoned them totally. I have to admit that the numbers in the South really shocked me. I thought we were making inroards in VA and NC and got whalloped both places.