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[Name removed]

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[dorktv]

1. I agree...

:grouphug:

[WilliamPitt]

2. Amen

[Upfront]

5. I Agree

and except your offer. Needs to happen.:toast:

[vi5]

3. It's never going to happen...

I hate to be so cynical because I do feel the same way you do on the subject. But there are just way too many people who are blindly following one or the other candidate and who I fear are going to run off and pout if their candidate doesn't get the nomination.

[dorktv]

4. I will pout if Dean does not get the nod but I WILL vote

for whoever does...ANYONE BUT BUSH! is not just a saying to me.

[MoonAndSun]

7. Yes, dorktv, it will be ABB on election day in November.....

we can disagree on candidates, but please stop the mean and useless name-calling among us.

[dorktv]

10. I do not think I have called anyone a name.

[LWolf]

24. I will express my sorrow if my candidate does not win.

I'm not following blindly. I'm working for him because of the studying I've done of the man, his issues, and his record. And the same studying which tells me that the other candidates don't come close enough to my take on the issues.

I will vote for the dem no matter what. Even if it turns out to be

:puke:

Lieberman.

I'm not going to run off and refuse to vote or vote 3rd party. For some of the candidates, I'd have to hold my nose to punch the card. But I'll still do it. In some cases, it's not the candidate's issues that have turned me off; it's the campaign strategy and behavior of some supporters. Regardless, I'll be there on election day.

I totally agree with Pete.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. I say yeah!

There's no need to be rude. And whoever wins the nomination will need EVERYONE'S support!

[lindashaw]

8. Pardon me if I'm naive, but I don't expect my candidate to be perfect.

There are a couple I don't see myself voting for, but I can compromise my person feelings about most of our candidates and meet them in the middle. I just want someone who can win, because honestly, we can't go on like this much longer.

[AWD]

9. Let's all get together!

EVERYBODY must join in!

If you're a Dean supporter and you bash, other Dean supporters pull them aside and ask them to stop (it's easier hearing it from one of your own)

If you're a Kerry supporter and you bash, other Kerry supporters pull them aside and ask them to stop (it's easier hearing it from one of your own)

Same goes for EVERY candidate!!!

Let's do this!!!!

[newsguyatl]

11. to me

what's worse than the outright derogatory terms, namecalling and overall insolence shown here is all the 'rhetorical questioning' threads, the ones posted by those claiming "i just wanna know so and so" and it's so obvious the thread was posted to foment distrust, anger, or just overall dislike of a candidate... THOSE are the threads that REALLY need to stop... and there's a dearth of them here, much more than the inane namecalling ones.

[lindashaw]

13. That's when silence is golden, I think. Confrontation never convinces.

We must just move on to where the posters are thoughtful and civil.

[Monaco]

12. I agree

Let's not fall into the trap of incivility that the right has made the norm for the last 20 years. In a democratic society, it is natural to disagree - even desirable, but disagreement doesn't have to be strident. I think this is part of the reason why there's no "liberal" Rush Limbaugh. Those of us who are not ideologues appreciate the fact that there can be a difference of opinion without its being a threat to our position. Be positive about your candidate! Convince, not clobber!

[sfecap]

14. Good idea. Done.

n/t

[onehandle]

15. No way...

No Democrat is Liberal enough for me. To me, Nader is a Right-Winger. The Green Party is so Pro-Industry it sickens me. Dean hides it well, but it's obvious that he is taking kickbacks from the Military Industrial Complex. His secret stockpile of nuclear weapons is well known to me. Don't get me started on Kerry...Let's just say that I Literally have video of him eating Iraqi baby soup from a bowl constructed from the skull of a Vietnamese child.

Wait...I'm using a computer...I'm obviously not a Liberal. I'm going to the woods to live one with nature.

[David Zephyr]

16. Won't Happen. Shouldn't Happen.

If John Kerry belittles Howard Dean by name, actually calling him out to make a distinction between the two as he did this weekend with his "zero experience" comment, then no one in the Dean camp should be expected to let it pass.

The same would go for Dean should he single out Kerry by name.

Otherwise, I agree with you that the banter back and forth is not edifying and, frankly, I skip most all of such threads.

I like John Kerry. Most everyone who follows the campaigns understands that Kerry is in a tight bind now where he needs to break out. His firewall strategy in South Carolina may work for him. He gave a good speech this morning and I watched it all on C-Span.

The "zero experience" comment only invites the obvious question of: If John Kerry with all of his credentials with "foriegn affairs experience" and who had privy information from the White House about Iraq and WMD still was able to fail in what was for him an "open book test" on how to vote regarding the War, then how much does it say about a guy, like Dean and others, who with "zero experience" passed that same test...closed book?

If Kerry was "misled" as he claims, then he should present the evidence to build his case. How did Bush mislead him? What did Bush show him that the rest of us, including Dean, were not privy to with regards to Iraq?

Kerry should drop his trying to explain his vote on the issue. It doesn't wash and it only makes him look small. He's better than that.

[Monaco]

17. It's not the candidates

that we're talking about, it's about their supporters in this forum. The candidates need to differentiate themselves from each other and so,under certain circumstances, need to cite an opponents position by name. Done properly, this is completely acceptable. Why I think needs to be avoided is name-calling and vitriol.

[David Zephyr]

21. If Any Candidate Attacks Another BY NAME, There Will Be Noise

That's the point I made. To expect the supporters of any of the Democratic candidates to sit silently while his/her opponent attacks them by name is wishful thinking.

It won't happen and shouldn't happen.

However, as I said before, just name calling and such is not edifying and goes nowhere.

That's the distinction I made and make.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

18. Sorry. This is POLITICS. Not Fantasia.

95% of us will support the Dem nominee. 1%(the disruptors) will support Chimpy. 4%(Greens, Indys) will decide when the time comes.

If we all agreed, what would be the point?

[Walt Starr]

19. You should edit your post

Some Dems won't support some of the candidates if they were to receive the nomination (me included).

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. Me, too.

I considered you part of the 4%. I could have spent all day breaking down the demographics, but I'm a lazy MF.

I support whoever you support. Or your right to, anyway.

[Walt Starr]

31. Well, Greens/Indys goes part way

Greens/Indies/Some Dems would have pretty much summed it up.

:)

[welshTerrier2]

20. Criticism is fine; vacuous bashing is not

I am as sick and tired of threads that call for "only positive comments" as I am about the inane, vacuous whining and bashing of candidates ...

We really need to address the pathetic level of discourse embodied by posts like "your guy is a jerk because ..." and the inevitable, insightful reply "no yours is ..."

But it's important to highlight that this does not mean we cannot criticize any given candidate ... I hate Dean's position on gun control ... I hated Kerry's Iraq vote ... no DU'er should criticize me for making statements like these ... we all have a right to express our opinions on the candidates and the issues whether others agree with us or not ...

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[welshTerrier2]

32. well said, pete ...

i agree with the tone you set in your post ...

the "why can't we all make nice" threads are sickening ... many of the issues that need to be debated really are matters of life and death ... and we all better have the intellect and courage to debate them ...

for all you "i really love my candidate" DU'ers, let me tell you that you often have more credibility with me (i'm still undecided) when you highlight your candidate's strengths AND WEAKNESSES (or at least disagreements you have with the candidate) rather then posting only the positives ...

let me say that I envy you moths who have found a candle ... i'm still flying around out here looking for a place to land ...

[Walt Starr]

23. Wow, I remember some of the arguments from '92

If you think this is bad, real life conversations were far worse than DU has seen to this point in the primaries.

[David Zephyr]

27. Yep!

I'm with you. Anyone here who can not find a single thing "wrong" with his/her candidate will quickly be flushed out as nothing more than a hack.

I'm supporting Dean, but his gun position really goes nowhere with me. His healthcare plan is good as it goes and he has real evidence of achieving healthcare for all kids in Vermont which is nothing to sneeze at, still I far prefer the single payer/universal plans offered by Dennis Kucinich and Carol Mosely Braun.

There is no angel with any of these human beings. To think so is cult like. Comments from candidate groupies are easily seen for what they are.

To his credit, William Pitt has from day one supported John Kerry and has never backed away from it, still he has not been afraid to criticize Kerry and to speak highly of the other candidates as well.

[sugarcookie]

25. "Choose Your Battles Wisely "

a good read and it kinda says it all.

<snip>
"If you choose your battles wisely, you'll be far more effective in winning those that are truly important."

http://www.softcom.net/users/westra/chooseyo.htm

[TLM]

26. You know Pete, I think part of the problem is

that we're all making criticisms from within a very small bubble.

By that i mean that while we may disagree and argue about one candidate or another, we are doing so with the preface that whoever wins the dem nomination will probably get our vote.

Hell I've already said I'd even vote for Lieberman to get Bush the hell out. Doesn't mean I won't still point out that he's a censor happy douche bag.

Same with Kerry. I'll vote for him and I think he'd be a vast improvement on Bush, but there's some things about him I really do not like. That's how I pick my candidate... the person who has the least amount of things I dislike and out of this batch that's Dean. In fact for a change, Dean actually has me on the other side of that scale, not only is there very little I dislike there's a whole lot that I like.

But my point is that sometimes I think we fall into patterns of debate where we get into the same mindset as we would be with a freeper or someone outside the bubble. We forget that not only are we all on the same basic side, but we’ve all mostly agreed that whoever gets the nomination we’ll vote for them.


I think of these debates more like siblings arguing, but we all are still in the same family. And in fact I think it is that family bond that allows us to hit a little harder on some issues.

[Name removed]

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[MODemocrat]

28. Very well stated and I will comply

We're all trying to reach for the same goal, and that is to vote this worthless regime out of office, no matter who we need to vote for.

[proud patriot]

33. YAY !!! Sorry I'm late

I'm here though

[BurtWorm]

34. I agree with you, PeteNYC.

I hope I haven't said anything about Kerry that would give comfort to--you know, one of those pieces of shit on the right. I can't say too many times that Kerry is my second choice. I have problems and questions about some of his actions, but please understand that I ask them for the good of the party. I want whoever is chosen next summer to be ready to grind Bush under his thumb with the wholehearted enthusiastic support of the rank and file.

[Name removed]

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[w4rma]

36. Awesome! But, I don't see the worst bashers on here (n/t)

[usregimechange]

37. I agree!

United we stand divided we fall. And, I am going to keep saying that. :kick:

[sfecap]

38. Well pete, it was a nice thought...

But here you have it:

Check out post #19...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=267291

Or how about post number 41 and 49?

Nice stuff, huh?

[Name removed]

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[Evanstondem]

40. Best we can do

This is much better than the tone of the Politics and Campaigns forum, which is really turning me off.

[Kanola]

41. I agree

I want us to kick Shrub 43's ass out of office in 2004. I will do what is legal to achieve that purpose.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Beetwasher]

43. Another kick for my friend Pete!

and for civility...

[Monaco]

44. A kick for Pete,

for civility, and a serious discussion of the issues.