Calling all upstanding and professional DUers

[intheflow]

I'm getting sick and tired of being lumped into RW phrase categories such as "the great unwashed" and "conspiracy theorists" because I object to illegal occupations and stolen elections. So I'm going to stand up and declare myself not a nutter, a fringe element, or an extremist.

I am a 40-year-old seminary student. I am in the fourth year of my Master's program with a 3.82 average, which I also maintained throughout my undergraduate (UConn). In my life before seminary I worked for a military contractor and had security clearance. I am an upstanding American citizen.

Anyone want to join me?


**Hey, I'm editing this because I'm getting lip about being too elitist. But I ask you to look at the title of the post calling to "upstanding" DUers along with "professional" DUers. Upstanding professions: labor organizers, Mother Theresa-esque workers, plumbers, stay-at-home mothers, mechanics, secretaries, etc. Blue, pink, and white collar.

The point is, we're not all crazed freaks with nothing better to do than surf the web all day inventing rumors to subvert democracy. We deserve to define ourselves.

[dirtyduck]

1. I am Mom and a Professional!

I am a 32 year old mother, PhD candidate, and university professional employee in a high tech field. I graduated cum laude from my undergraduate degree, and had a 4.0 average for my Masters. I am also a writer, a blogger, and a great cook. I have taught preschoolers and worked at a bank. I went to Catholic School. I am smart.

[wildflowergardener]

2. I believe something suspicious is going on too (possibly)

Hi. I am a landscape architect - 33 years old. I don't normally believe in conspiracy theories, but believe that there is something strange going on with these elections. I am a computer geek, and love computers, but also know how many problems they can have, and that there are lots of people out there who have much more computer knowledge than I do, who probably would be able to hack into a voting system. I just think it's silly to not have a paper trail.

We always make paper copies of all our drawings, and backups of the computers every week, because we know that computers and hard drives can crash. We don't want to lose a weeks worth of clients work. Surely with something as important as these elections, the same should be done.

Meg
St. Louis, Missouri

[Helga Scow Stern]

3. Why worry about their characterizations...

it will always be negative.

[LynzM]

9. Because...

We may not change their minds, but we can remind ourselves that we don't have to believe what they say!

[hiphopnation]

28. Precisely.

Do not accept the debate on their terms. We are none of the things they think we are and we need not prove that to anyone. Only to stand strong on our principals, figure out the best way to communicate them, and drive them home ad nauseum.

[Marthe48]

4. I'm in computer operations over 4 yrs.

worked 2 years as a library reference assistant, married 33 years, 2 adult daughters, active in student exchange and mentoring programs, ardent belief in God, and:

I THINK SOMEBODY CHEATED TO GET IN THE WHITE HOUSE

And if the REDS are so moral, how can they support liars and thieves?

[tridim]

5. A 3.82 GPA = Elitist commie Liberal

That's the type of attitude we're dealing with. I doubt that will ever change. If you use your brain, you're the enemy. It's exactly like Nazi Germany, except the concentration camps haven't been built.. Yet.

[intheflow]

13. Hardly elitist or communist.

Elitist? I was a high-school dropout, single teenage welfare mother from the projects earlier in life. Pulled myself up by the ol' non-existent bootstraps, relying on wit and cunning to survive. Doesn't the RW eat that stuff up? All true in my case.

Commie? Well, maybe leaning socialist, especially with regards to universal health care.

Liberal? Unabashedly!

[omnithrope]

17. Actually, in grad school, that's pretty average...

You're right, though.

NO OFFENSE! I think what you're doing is fantastic, Jinuu!!! Keep up the great work!

[intheflow]

32. Back atcha!

:hi:

[LynzM]

6. Sure!

I'm a 24 year old, also former UConn student. I have travelled and lived abroad. I speak 3 languages. I studied engineering and german, and left school with a 3.8. I worked 3 jobs while at school. I am working now to support my family, and have done so for more than 2 years. I keep in touch with my parents. I love my friends. I am not brainwashed, nor a conspiracy theorist. But I pay attention to what is going on, and I see huge discrepancies between what the mainsteam American press reports, and actual events that are occurring.

[Unstuck In Time]

7. Oh, so you're an ELITIST, huh? One o' them smart people?

Just kidding! Thing is, I don't think there's any way to be safe from the label-makers. Better just to make your case, say it loud 'n proud.

[LynzM]

10. To you I say....

[intheflow]

14. Great 'toon! LMAO!

:hi:

[LynzM]

15. Thanks, I love it... here's the link

http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war.html

Worth going back through and reading. Hysterical, and sad, all together...

[aintitfunny]

8. I am with you

Upstanding, middle class, mother and wife, small business owner, member of the American Legion Auxiliary, President of the local Soroptimist club, member of local Dem Club, tax-paying, law-abiding, rule honoring, honest and trustworthy, middle aged, christian bred, southern born, citizen of the Great United States. Just a middle american in the mid-atlantic who cares deeply about my country.

[Hamlette]

11. they got you going and coming

if you say you are smart, educated and responsible they call you an elietist. if you say you are just an average Joe, they call you a moron.

Don't let them define us. We need to let America know, whether we are blue coller or professional, that liberal ideals are the heart and soul of American protecting American and human values from the onslaught of the ever corseing rhetoric from the right.

[intheflow]

16. This is exactly the point of my post.

I refuse to let them define me. I will define myself, thank you.

[Eurobabe]

12. sure I out myself (sort of)

I am a 44 yr. old female, with a Masters degree (3.81 ave.) in Architecture, Undergrad degree in Philosophy and English, Phi Beta Kappa, small business owner. Former Republican until 1992.

If that makes me "rad fringe," I say BRING IT ON! -Crozet

[deutsey]

18. What seminary do you attend?

You can PM it to me, if you'd like.

Also, what denomination?

I'm also considering going to seminary to become a Unitarian Universalist minister. Like you, I'm 40 years old and have had professional career for quite some time.

I also have a Master's degree, am married, and have three children.

[m berst]

19. proud here

I am proud to be a nutter, a fringe element, and an extremist.

History will prove that these are all badges of honor and descriptions of the true patriots.

Being completely out of step with middle class respectability is the moral and patriotic stance now.

[intheflow]

21. Shout out loud and proud!

You're a shining example of how we should each define ourselves. :thumbsup:

[dirtyduck]

22. here's to the crazy ones...

[m berst]

33. I have spent 30 years

For 30 years as a progressive I have tried to "pass" and acommodate the cultural norms of suburban America - tried to be respectable. I have been beaten on relentlesly by people in my own party to "not be too radical" and to "have patience" and to "work within the system."

All of that catering to the delicate sensibilities of the goody two shoes liberals has resulted in war, misery and fascism.

Yet my radical progressive politics get a fair hearing in every little town in the South I perform in. Among "them" - the rednecks, the fundies, the supposed idiots. The suffering, struggling oppressed people who in desperation turn to church and Republicanism to fill the vacuum left by the betrayal and abandonment of them by the liberals.

It is the respectable middle class professional liberals who are resistant to radicalism and progressive politics, not the common people of the country.

I am tired of trying to accomodate the white suburban concept of respectability. I am tired of being "practical" and embracing "electability" while the party drifts farther and farther from the concerns of the common people, the working people, and demonizes anyone who won't fit into this stale, bland, middle class educated suburban cultural mold. It doesn't work and it never will work.

It represents an attempt by people who want to have their cake and eat it too. People want all of the perks of American suburbanism and corporatism, and then cut a check to Greenpeace once a year and call themselves liberal.

Tyranny is built upon social pressure to conform, and the suburban liberals are always pressuring the rest if us to conform to a bloodless cowardly liberalism in everything we think, say, and do.

The fight against tyranny should not be a feel-good social club of people striving for respectability.

[zippy890]

34. Could you explain

"Yet my radical progressive politics get a fair hearing in every little town in the south..."?

and how should the fight against tyranny proceed, in your opinion.?

I am getting more radical myself, feeling alienated from our political system, like we are all being manipulated, divided up, thinking this so called "democracy' we have is a joke--a bad one.

[intheflow]

41. My mother the always says,

"We don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic."

Well, maybe they shouldn't feed us all that democracy BS in schools from a young age. Some of us actually bought it and believe it. And we're willing to fight for that belief.

:hippie:

[m berst]

46. fools rush in...

There are people with power and privilege in this society - and that includes the progressive liberal and leftist organizations. That sense of "no where to go" that many progressives are feeling is because we are butting up against all these little fiefdoms that people have carved out for themselves, and the doors to these groups are not open. The same people are guarding the gates - the aproximately 10-15% of the population who are white, suburban, professional liberals and progressives - that hijacked the grass roots campaigns. These people build organizations that are the political equivalent of gated, exclusive communities.

You can walk into any right wing organization and your skills will be put to use. There are no litmus-tests, no life style requirements, no sophitication requirements, no degrees needed, and no bona fides or credentials need to be shown. If you can do the job, you are put to work.

The liberal, leftist, and progressive organizations, in contrast, are a tight knit bunch of self-righteous hierarchy-oriented and status-conscious insiders, and common people and outsiders are not welcome. The people who control these organizations are the ones who give us this idea that we have no where to go. We are reluctant to criticize them because we "agree with them" or think they are "for the right causes" so they get a free ride.

The everyday regular people, 70% of the population or more, are where we can go. They have no one listening to them or speaking for them.

African Americans, rural people, working people, Christian people, and most Southerners have all been systematically excluded from the left wing organizations, until and unless they will "play ball" - go to college, move to the suburbs, get a corporate job, "get involved" in the right organizations, adopt the right life style - in other words, be more like us.

Left wing politics has become a lifestyle, not a political movement. Drop the love affair with the lifestyle, and we bring in most of the people and we move forward. Treat politics like a fashion accessory or a social club and we stay mired in futility.

Fifteen years ago I was arguing with fellow Dems about this, and it fell on deaf ears. I said that the party was becoming elitist and losing touch with minorities and workers and the poor. I warned that there was a trend towards fascism in the country that was growing. I said that running to the right and imitating the Republicans was dangerous and would backfire.

The Dems have steered clear of confronting the issues that are most important to the average person, and played ball with corporate interests who have stolen the country out from under us with nary a whimper of opposition and have marginalized and alienated progressive voices. They have imitated the rhetoric of the opposition and embraced the programs of the opposition, from "welfare reform" to "tax cuts" to "de-regulation" and "privatization." They have been running scared, afraid to take stands on principle.

The very predictable result has been a total catastrophe, and the needs of the average citizen have been completely disregarded. The hardships of this complete and shameful abdication of the Democratic party leadership from their historic role and moral obligation to protect and defend their constituency have fallen very harshly on the people at the bottom. Those people have either dropped out of the process altogether and given up, or they have moved to voting Republican out of desperation.

I have kissed up to more Dem, liberal and progressive leaders, followed more instructions for political action, written more checks for causes, signed more petitions, ran around with petitions, canvassed, did phone bank work. etc. etc. for 35 years than any sane person should ever have to do. All that stuff really took off as a popular part time activity for suburban liberals in the 70's, and it replaced the dirty noisy union hall and the wildcat strikes and the illegal marches for justice and all of the other hard life and death actions that people have always taken to achieve social justice. Ever since progressive politics became a suburban hobby, we have gone steadily backwards.

I say that the whole program is flawed and will never get there. I am putting forth the opinion that it is flawed because it is all a middle class white college educated suburban feel good social club. Not to exclude people who fit that description - God bless 'em - but to suggest that the strangle hold they have on the movement is counter-productive. I could be wrong, but that is what I see. They are not yet truly hurting and the struggle isn't as real or as immediate for them as a result.


It is not progressive politics that we can't win people over to. What we can't win the people over to is suburbanism. Suburbanism is so interwoven with liberal and progressive politics that people think they are promoting the one when they are actually promoting the other. The people reject progressive causes not because they reject the principles or the goals. They reject the paternalistic air of superiority and entitlement. They reject suburbanism. They don't trust it. They don't trust corporate managers, educated people, academia, lawyers, activists, do-gooders, know-it-all people, "politically correct" people, etc.

It all smells like hypocrisy to people, and they are not wrong about that. Look at the educated suburban liberals going ga-ga over kill-Arabs-lite that Kerry is promoting. Look at how the liberals spurned Jesse Jackson. Look at how the liberals have caved again and again on worker's rights issues and have completely abandoned racial reconciliation. Look at how the liberals argue for and defend the war on drugs. Look at the hateful and contemptuous way liberals talk about Bush and his supporters as stupid rednecks and idiots and neanderthals and ignorant ass****s.

If we are going to wait for the workers, the migrants, the artisans, the farmers and the poor to become like us before we can build a movement, we have a long, long wait. True progressive movements and true liberalism have always been built on diversity, and on the dignity of the common working man - however simple he or she may seem to be when seen from our ivory tower. Different people have different gifts and have different blessings they were born with. To be born white in the US to suburban parents is an enormous advantage. To be bright and articulate is a product of good fortune and lucky genes. It does not make us superior to the mechanic. Our gifts and blessings need to be put to work for the benefit of all of the people if we are serious about politics. That means that WE need to get off our high horse and change, and stop demanding that the world change to meet our criteria.

Most of the people in the world cannot ever become like us - and we cannot change their hearts and minds - they are fighting for survival and because of skin color or disadvantaged background or circumstance can't join our club if they wanted to. They don't have the luxury of sitting around dreaming up castles in the sand of the perfect world according to suburban intellectuals. It isn't a theoretical world they live in. It is harsh and it is getting worse.

[OrwellwasRight]

53. Word, m! (eom)

[IrateCitizen]

20. I'm a former Army Reserve officer, and civil engineer...

... I had a secret security clearance. Now I work with veterans' groups committed to speaking out against this war, and attend school part-time to get a teaching certificate in history in mathematics, with my eventual goal being a PhD in some combination of history and economics along with a university teaching position.

My GPA as an undergrad didn't match yours, but I've yet to get lower than an A- in my "second coming" to school.

[dirtyduck]

24. you're a reborn student!

i guess that's what its all about... you fuck up the first round and then just declare yourself reborn.

[alcuno]

23. It never made sense - unwashed elitists?

Here are my elitist credentials:
BA in Education (Math)
MA in English
Mom (BA and MA)
Dad (drafted and went to college on the GI Bill - Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering)
I've traveled outside the country to England, France, Ireland, Italy, Finland, Russia, Hong Kong, etc..
I can speak halting Italian and fairly fluid French.


Now here's the real kicker:
All four of my grandparents received no higher than an 8th grade education; my grandfathers were a butcher and a printer.

Now why would anyone take their political cues from a family like mine, those damned elitists, when you have a hard-working family like the Bush family?

[seabeyond]

25. bah hahah see your update. was gonna include this mother

of two beautiful boys, totally successful in life at 7 and 9. 43, paying my taxes, running my home, raising my boys and lovin my husband.

young repug, now a middle of roader christian, laid back livin life kinda soul in grace and love.

yup yup yup,

and i figure my vote should be counted too. the least we can expect of our government

black left wrist band it

[Zan_of_Texas]

26. Facts and the right-wing don't easily co-exist.

They use a variety of tactics to silence those who would question their fantasy world, where the economy is "turning the corner," where the Iraqis who had lots of WMDs and helped attack us on 9-11 greeted us with roses and smiles, and where registered Democrats turned out in unprecedented numbers to vote for George W. Bush.

"Conspiracy theorist" is one of their loaded words. Have you noticed there is NEVER a conspiracy FACT in their media?

However, for fifty years, the tobacco companies and their PR firm and their lawyers conspired (that's a legal term) to keep the health dangers of smoking from the American people. They created fake research companies to do it, and had all sorts of ways to wend their money trails so that the fake researchers got money from the tobacco companies. They threatened a whistleblower and put a bomb in his mailbox.

The so-called 7th largest corporation in America, Enron, fell like a house of cards because of a CONSPIRACY (yes, that's the word used in the indictments) to defraud stockholders, employees, rape California, etc. Billions of dollars were involved. It was a CONSPIRACY -- look it up in the dictionary, or check the indictments of some of those who have pled guilty.

So, was there a conspiracy to steal votes? This is not about flying saucers, folks, it's about money and power, and control of the most powerful nation on earth.

The questions are: would they steal votes? could they steal votes? did they steal votes?

And, what are we gonna do about it?

Whether you have a Ph.D. or are unemployed living in a shack, you have a right to ask those questions. AND, get real answers.

[eauclaireliberal]

27. I'm in the process of nursing school

and I'm getting damned tired of "Liberal" being a dirty word. I refuse to apologize for caring about people other than myself.

Guess who's going to heaven. It ain't Dubya and Rove, I assure you. This is coming from a fair-weather Catholic.

[intheflow]

31. "I refuse to apologize for caring about people other than myself."

You go, eauclaireliberal! :yourock:

[Robert Oak]

29. represents another English language hijacking by the theocons

Yup, their propaganda machine is better than Nazi Germanys'.

Constantly hijacking terms and have magically made word such as
"liberal", "dissent" and questioning something that is obvious to question...

like why do they refuse to instantiate a nationwide uniform election
standard that has an audit system as magically unamerican and dirty.


It's fairly disgusting...but if there are 4M evangelical christians
in this country...they are obviously in the minority...yet
in a matter of a week we're going backwards 100 years.

Scopes trial mentality to teach "creationism" in public schools,
denial of even birth control to women (good god! when they gonna
hand out the burkas?)

people who are hard working, advanced degreed, tax paying thinking
americans are now talked about like they are subversives...

It's very frightening and reminds me so much of other countries leading up to a genocidal plan to belittle and separate the "others"
as less than human before enacting their evil plan.

[Maclilly]

30. I'm not a college grad

but I did manage to get through school and become a paralegal then start my own business with my husband. I am a 37 y/o mom with two kids and we live in Seattle by way of Las Vegas and So. Cal. I am a liberal and damn proud of it.

[newyawker99]

47. Hi Maclilly!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[immoderate]

35. I'm a reformed elitist

I got into politics by reading Ayn Rand, supporting Barry Goldwater, and listening to the "maiden" political speech of Ronald Reagan.

When I asked my favorite college professor about Rand, he said, "She's a flying hunk o' shit!" I had never heard a teacher talk like that.

That, and the Vietnam war, caused me to re-examine my politics. I found that the Conservatives and Republicans fell short in many areas. I was originally libertarian, but the conservatives wanted to control my life where they had no business to. And I realized that our society is not the level playing field they would have you believe. The conservatives I meet today think Goldwater is too liberal. And I think Republicans come in three types: Plutocrats, racists, and fundamentalists.

I describe myself as radical, but I don't think revolution serves anybody. So I'm tempered by pragmatism.

I don't think a freeper would understand anything I just said.

--IMM

[intheflow]

39. "I don't think a freeper would understand anything I just said."

But I do! Right on!!

:thumbsup:

[immoderate]

45. Thanks.

It's a good thing to be understood.

--IMM:headbang:

[seraph]

36. I am professional and Democrat/Progressive

The RW will always try and "label" those who don't fall lockstep in with their plans to rape the world.

They are so wrong.

[corker]

37. i am a small business owner

health care costs are a real concern for me...

[Minstrel Boy]

38. The criminals in high places, and their apologists,

always scream "conspiracy theorist!" when those on the trail of their crimes start getting warm. (It's what Dick Cheney called John Kerry over Iran Contra.) They think a few tinfoil hat zingers will deter investigators who fear for their reputations. And to a large degree, with respect to the mainstream American press, they've been successful. But not entirely, and not forever.

They've never screamed so often as they are now. And the screams have never sounded so shrill.

After four years of the most egregious deceit and corruption in American public life, the Bush gang no longer deserves the presumption of innocence about anything. They are dangerous repeat offenders, whose lies are getting scores killed daily. Any who can't see that - who still give these people the benefit of the doubt - are kidding themselves to death.

And me, I'm a mid-40s professional writer and author, with a Masters degree in philosophy, wife and two kids. And I don't give a damn what anyone calls me.

[H2O Man]

40. I got a 97 on my

mid-term in social studies in 8th grade in 1972. That should put me in the elite.

[intheflow]

42. I was starting to party hard in 8th grade.

Lead to my dropping out by my junior year. Yet look at me now, Maw! Imma eleet!

[H2O Man]

43. likely your paper

was the one I copied.

[SillyGoose]

44. I refuse to let them define me...

I'm a mother of a little boy, catholic and small business owner. I'm not prone to conspiracy theories either, but I think something stinks with this election. I refuse to let them define me, however, I fear that the Democratic party has let the Republican party define us and our positions for far too long. Things have got to change.

[displacedtexan]

48. Master's Degree in French and German

Undergrad degrees in English, German, and Theatre.

Minors in Education and Religion.

District Fine Arts Director

Curriculum specialist

Media Coordinator for a successful gubernatorial campaign and Michael Moore's book tour.

My dad was a construction worker, and my mother was a housewife.

[AspenRose]

49. OK I'll bite

I am 36, married and pregnant with my first child.

I have a B.A. in English and a minor in Political Science. I speak some Spanish, and it's a struggle to read French, but I can get by. My language of study in public high school was Latin.

I am working on my MSW. I may also begin working towards ordination as a deacon in the United Methodist Church, to fulfill my desire to have my 'vocation' (as a social worker) fit my 'calling' (to serve the poor and less fortunate).

I was a paralegal for a family law attorney before I started graduate school. (Law school is not out of the question down the road, and also fits with the UMC's call to Social Justice.)

I am the first in my family of origin to graduate from college and the first to attend graduate school.

Both of my grandmothers were housekeepers in upper class homes: One had an 8th grade education, the other barely finished high school.

Hardly elitist. My parents knew that the value of an education was the ticket to a better future. But they also taught me the responsibility of giving back to the community and to those who could not help themselves.

(I think Jimmy Carter is awesome.)

[sweetheart]

50. meritocracy ain't democracy

Whilst i sympathize with you, its all just history on the resume,
and today, you're just another voter who lost, like myself.

I've lost everything, and strangely it feels liberating. There is
no longer an obligation to support, agree or disagree. I have
been absolved of any authority, responsibility or ownership in
society. As a nameless disenfranchised person who has multiple
graduate degrees on a forgotten CV, i realize that the truth is
administrative nihilism as preached by the bush skivers.

My past is gone, and i am nothing but a slave, a dog's butler who's
greatest pleasure in life is to open the door for the dog.

[buckettgirl]

51. So what do you want to do?

I mean, posting on here is great, and we know there are lots of great people here, but what is that going to do? really?
we need to start doing things like this outside of DU, getting word out the all the *-voters, and trying to incite change in attitudes...
I know you mean well and I am not trying to sound derogatory, but it just seems like we could be so much more effective outside of DU - especially since there are so many upstanding, professional DUers!

[firebee]

52. I'm the Jack of all trades

I've worked as a telemarketer and salesman for Health and Life Insurance. I was a shipping clerk for a circuit board factory, I did drywall for a while, then I worked as a secretary... manage the office.. repair some computers.. build some computers... blah blah blah.. for my family's business... and for about the last 3 or 4 years, I've been operating as a wildland firefighter. Currently, I'm trying to get on with the feds..... security.. imagine that, a job with the feds is more secure than a job with a contractor... god damn socialism.

[Cooley Hurd]

54. Hell YES! I smoke pot!

:smoke:

...whoops! Wrong thread...;)

[intheflow]

57. We love you anyway.

Regardless of the thread you posted on, you're defining yourself. Rock on, Cooley Hurd!

[OrwellwasRight]

55. Don't let "them" define you or us

Their labels don't even have a basis in fact.

The facts are, the more education you have, the more likely you are to be tolerant and liberal. In this election, the more education you had, the more likely you were to vote Kerry.

I've got a masters. a JD, and a teaching credential. I don't trust BBV, and I have questions about the validity of the vote totals in this election. Does that make me a tin foil hat looney? If you want to call names, then I guess so.

But I think it makes me, and other DUers, regardless of level of education, smart and curious.

And as a former teacher, I can say the true difference between those who will challenge the world and possibly make it better and those who will merely let life impact them is curiousity. Not schoolin', not GPAs, just curiousity.

So if the religious fundamentalists want to say we elites insult them, I say they should get curious, too. As in, why aren't Bush's "fantastic" policies actually helping his working class rural supporters?

What would have happened if Woodward and Bernstein weren't curious?

Let's keep on defining the conversation in our own terms. You go jinuu!

[intheflow]

56. "Does that make me a tin foil hat looney?"

No, it makes you a realist with a brain! You go, OrwellwasRight! :yourock:

[indigobusiness]

58. I aspire to elitism...does that count?

There is always Festivus...for the rest of us.

[intheflow]

59. Kicked for the evening crowd.

:kick: