wes clark jr - in case you forgot

[dfong63]

quoting Wes Clark Jr, in the thread wes clark jr - in case you haven't seen it

``I don't know if he will run but he'll make an announcement either way (my guess is at the very latest labor day). I understand that the wait might be frustrating for people in the DraftClark movement and the Democratic party - but if he runs, I assume that those who think he is a good candidate now will probably not hold it against him just because he waited a few extra weeks.''

the above was originally posted on july 10, 2003.

it's now been more than a few weeks. labor day has come and gone. and we still don't have a straight answer from the perfumed primadonna as to whether he's a democrat, let alone whether he's running. i wonder, will the Clark-worshippers ever get tired of being strung along?

what a joke. the man who is trying to market himself as "Mr National Security" can't even make up his mind whether to run for office. i don't think i'd want to bet the farm on a guy who is that indecisive and that lacking in forthrightness.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

1. Yawn

Still grinding that axe, eh? How incredibly droll. And boring.

Exactly what part of "my guess" don't you understand? It's really a very simple phrase. For most people, anyway.

The lengths to which Clark-haters will go are truly remarkable. And sad.

DTH

[dfong63]

4. so tell me, what kind of candidate

... would let his family go out and lie for him?

Wes Clark Jr's statement was considered important news by the Clarkites back in early July, but now that the much-ballyhooed deadline has passed, suddenly it's of no further interest.

Yawn, you say?

how convenient. well, i think it is very interesting. we have this mysterious candidate who won't declare his intentions, won't even give a firm deadline for when he will make a decision, but expects the world to wait on him with bated breath. meanwhile, his son comes out and issues a statement to the faithful, presumably with his father's full knowledge. father lets son issue statement without contradiction or correction, because it helps encourage the supporters. father won't come out and make his own statement one way or the other, but is content to let son stick his neck out and be the fall guy. father reaps the benefits, while son's credibility suffers.

what a terrific way to start a campaign. Clark has no experience in electoral politics, and it shows.

[Bertrand]

8. This is getting pathetic

you have no proof of Sr lying to his son, and even Jr said it was a guess, so move on.

[dfong63]

18. son issued statement,

... which Clarkites used as evidence of Clark's intentions at the time. but now that it turned out to be wrong, suddenly it's no longer relevant? i disagree. in the absence of an official campaign organization, Clark's son is as close to a spokesman for Clark as you can get. Clark (Sr) let his son issue that statement, didn't prevent him from making it, didn't correct it, or tell his son that he was wrong. he just let his son make a fool of himself.

that's what's pathetic.

Clark (Sr) maintains his precious "deniability" by saying nothing, leaving family members to spread rumors on his behalf, and then take the fall if it turns out to his (Sr's) advantage.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. Sins of the Father, Eh?

Last I heard, original sin went out of style a LONG time ago.

Give it up, dude. You ain't convincing anyone except yourself.

DTH

[dfong63]

29. when the son acts as a spokesman, it reflects on the father's campaign

Last I heard, original sin went out of style a LONG time ago.

when the son acts as a spokesman, it reflects on the father's campaign. even if the son was not an "official" spokesman (after all this is a stealth campaign with no official anything), the father as a public figure has a duty to correct any mis-statements made by people close to him. either that, or he has to accept the consequences of his silence.

Give it up, dude. You ain't convincing anyone except yourself.

try taking your own advice.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

31. Whatever

Back on Ignore you go. But one last parting shot:

try taking your own advice.

Considering how every single person posting to this thread thinks your accusations are off-base, I figure I can safely take a break, while your lonely self is consigned to taking positions which amount to mental masturbation and slander.

DTH

[Bertrand]

26. you have nothing

Weak spin from a weak argument. Either give proof of clark getting his kid to lie or move on.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

11. Here Are Several Clues

Since you obviously need a Clue-by-Four blessing from the Clue Fairy.

would let his family go out and lie for him?

"Lie" is such a strong word, and it's one you apparently don't know the definition of.

Perhaps Clark Jr. didn't know when his father would enter the race? This really isn't surprising, since by all indications Clark Sr. didn't know when he'd enter the race, or even if he would, back in early July! Wow, what a concept!

Perhaps you could, oh, I dunno, take Clark Jr. at his WORD where he says it's his GUESS?

Perhaps Clark Sr. <gasp> CHANGED HIS MIND, or something?

Any of these explanations are much more plausible than Clark Sr. saying, "Hey, son, why don't you go to that oh-so-influential blog and LIE for me about my candidacy! After all, that blog gets SO much more attention and will be SO much more effective than all of my national television appearances!"

"Sure dad, no problem!"

:eyes:

Wes Clark Jr's statement was considered important news by the Clarkites back in early July, but now that the much-ballyhooed deadline has passed, suddenly it's of no further interest.

Most if not all of us were hopeful it would happen by now. Most if not all of us want him to announce as soon as possible. Most if not all of us are starting to get impatient ourselves.

That is still a LONG FUCKING WAY from "Clark lied," as anyone with the slightest bit of cluefulness should be able to determine.

Yawn, you say?

Abso-damn-lutely. Yawn and :eyes:

meanwhile, his son comes out and issues a statement to the faithful, presumably with his father's full knowledge.

That's a big presumably.

father lets son issue statement without contradiction or correction, because it helps encourage the supporters.

Dude, GET A GRIP. It's a fucking BLOG.

father won't come out and make his own statement one way or the other, but is content to let son stick his neck out and be the fall guy. father reaps the benefits, while son's credibility suffers.

I don't see Clark Jr. taking any offense, so why the hell should you care? Oh, that's right, because you have that BIG FUCKING AXE to grind.

All this for what Clark Jr. expressly said was HIS GUESS!

GOD, this is just intolerable!

what a terrific way to start a campaign. Clark has no experience in electoral politics, and it shows.

Yes, we know that's your opinion, as you've told us again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again...

DTH

[CoffeePlease1947]

16. If you want to attack the son's of candidates

which would be really low, I know that one candidate's son robbed a country club. Now, who was that?

Have some class dfong, stick to the candidates not their kids. Your posts are getting sicker and sicker.


Mike

[DoveTurnedHawk]

17. DAMN!

I vote for this reply as "Spank of the Day," courtesy of CoffeePlease1947! It exposes the hypocrisy incredibly well.

DTH, Who Loves Dean, and Has Nothing Against Him or His Son

[dfong63]

24. now that you mention it,

I know that one candidate's son robbed a country club. Now, who was that?

now that you mention it, i think that incident highlights Howard Dean's integrity quite favorably wrt Clark... when Dean's son erred, Dean didn't try to hide from the issue; he confronted it head-on by saying that his son made a mistake and has to take responsibility for it.

Howard Dean, obviously, did not benefit from his son's crime. Dean's son was not acting at the behest of his father nor on his behalf.

whereas Clark (Sr) was content to remain silent while his son did the dirty work of spreading false rumors that benefited him.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. An Incredibly Unfair Person Would Say That Clearly

Since Dean wasn't able to raise his own son correctly, how the hell can we trust him to be the caretaker of this country?

MY GUESS, Fong. You might want to learn what that means.

DTH

[Bertrand]

27. your reading skills are terrible

The son didnt issue a definitive statement, but an opinon on when his father would run at a time when his father very well could have declared by then. It isnt a lie, or dirty work, but an opinion. The word "guess" shows us that. You have nothing.

[CoffeePlease1947]

30. WOW! your right , Wesley Jr. should have robbed a store instead

How do you even know that it was Wesley Jr? Because he said so on the internet? What a laugh. If you buy that then I am a guy from the country of Guaha in Africa and have come into possesion of 90 million Quatar ($25 million US) and need you to send me $5K (us dollars) so I can transfer it to your account and we will split it 40/60.

I think clearly that Dean's son did this act to spite his father for one reason or another.

Mike

[Unity]

2. And what candidate are you beholden to?

I really hate posts like this that do nothing but sow discontent and division. Build up your candidate, but don't go posting crap like this tearing others down.

[dfong63]

10. what teddy roosevelt said

I really hate posts like this that do nothing but sow discontent and division. Build up your candidate, but don't go posting crap like this tearing others down.

Clark's the one who's sowing division and discontent. Clark seems to think that by maintaining his "stealth candidate" status, he can hide from the scrutiny and criticism that the real candidates (the ones who had the guts to declare) have to undergo. well, he can think again. i say, as long as he's "not officially" a candidate, he deserves none of the respect or courtesy due to a dem candidate.

as far as i'm concerned, he's a self-serving disruptor who is sabotaging the real dem candidates. i've said that due to his complete lack of a track record in electoral politics, he's no more qualified to be president than Arnie is to be governor; but to be fair, at least Arnie had the guts to finally declare his candidacy.

[Tinoire]

3. I don't mind that as much as the concern I have w/ his ties 2 DARPA, JINSA

and Homeland Security.

I am extremely concerned about some of the baggage and associations he has.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. Oh Please, I Am Dying To Know

About the grand DARPA/JINSA conspiracy.

:eyes:

Please cite REPUTABLE sources indicating this link. Because I just did an exhaustive Google search, and the only links between DARPA and Wesley Clark that I could find involve a software system and a Wesley A. Clark, not our Wesley K. Clark. The only mention I could find of JINSA and Wesley Clark was a single briefing Clark gave to JINSA members during the Kosovo action. He's not even a member, so far as I can tell.

DTH

On Edit: Oh, I also found a racist Serbian web-publication indicting Clark as a "Jew General" and obviously a member of JINSA, despite the fact that JINSA doesn't even claim him, or vice versa. But obviously it must be true, since Clark is a "Jew General."

:eyes:

[CoffeePlease1947]

21. The connection is like this DTH

Wesley has a son. His son has a dog. The dog had puppies. One of the puppies went to a little girl. The little is the best friend of another girl who is the half brother of a kid who is cousins with another kid who lives down the street from a women who is married to a man who once owned a store that was bought out by a company who has a janitor that is the 3rd cousin of a guy who is good friends with a women that once was sold underwear to the very best friend of a member of JINSA. It is pretty simply and I cannot believe that you didn't see the obvious connection between the the two. Clearly Clark is pure evil.

Mike

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. Dude, You Are on a Roll!

This is even funnier than the post that started this "thread," and that's saying a LOT! :D

DTH

[Tinoire]

28. Laugh if you want. Asxiom, Jasckson Stephens, PNAC/AEI

Stick around. There will be plenty of information coming out.

Btw, I'm aware of the difference between Wesley A. and Wesley K., though there's also a connection.

There's a lot of information out there. When it's pulled together, you know we'll be sharing. It would be remiss not to.

JINSA per google is mostly briefings and other coincidental, innocuous meetings but google is neither the beginning nor the end of the search. DARPA is much more. And Homeland Security is a fact. PNAC/AEI are also facts and by more of a coincidence than having the same media guy.

I hope you don't think I would just throw that out lightly. I've run into several people, outside of DU, who are concerned and looking into it on their own. All I want is the best for my country, the Progressive cause AND world peace.

Where do you think Jackson Stephens and Asxiom lead to?

Hardly a household name (we will try to change that), Acxiom has been selected the lead company to provide software and pull together the network to furnish the information to DARPA's "Information Awareness Office" (IAO) where John Poindexter of Iran-Contra infamy will prepare individual dossiers on every American citizen and the millions of aliens (legal and illegal) in the country.

The plan calls for the collection of information from a staggering
number of sources e.g. banks, credit unions, health care organizations, the IRS and Social Security agencies, the INS, the FBI, grocery chains and any number of other companies and government agencies (federal, state and local) that have records of individual transactions.

<snip>

While the name of the company means nothing to almost all Americans, perhaps a couple of the names under which it operated earlier will generate a spark of recognition. Before it morphed into Acxiom, the company was named Alltel. Still nothing? Then how about its original name, Systematics? Now memories come flooding back of the PROMIS software scandal and those associated with it.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/columns/rarey/rarey5.html

http://www.stephens.com/
http://www.acxiom.com/AcxDisplay/1%2C1486%2C0~en%2C00.html

Acxiom's 2002 proxy (includes Board of Directors)
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/733269/000073326902000007/proxy2002.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=jackson+stephens+
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=jackson+stephens+AND+BCCI
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=jackson+stephens+AND+drug+trafficking

This is not a discussion by the way. Just be patient if you're that dying to know.

[legin]

32. .

:pals:

[Tinoire]

33. "."

:)

[CoffeePlease1947]

34. Are those smiles the same gender?

J/k

Mike

[Tinoire]

35. Not too sure - but if your man wins it won't be a problem

I will say this for Clark- he seems more socially progressive, in words at least, than some other candidates. Your defense will get a lot easier once he declares and starts clarifying his positions.

[Kahuna]

40. LOL! Somebody is so busted. That's what happens...

when the Clark-hatas troll the internet for anything they can find to slander General Clark with. They seem to believe that there is only one person named Wesley Clark in the whole country. This isn't the first time that someone posted something that pertained to someone else.

[Tinoire]

48. Busted? I think not. You just remain a little patient ok?

You won't be disappointed :)

[CoffeePlease1947]

5. Does you candidate suck so bad that you have to even attack candidates

that are not even in the race yet? Boy, that is pretty desperate, you must be really worried about him coming into race.

Mike

[DoveTurnedHawk]

6. They Are Absolutely Petrified

It's extremely amusing, though.

DTH

[dfong63]

13. and your candidate sucks so bad he's scared (petrified) to declare

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. Patience, Grasshopper

I bet your head explodes when Wes actually DOES announce.

:eyes:

DTH

[Kahuna]

41. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth on that day.

Can't wait. }(

You'll have to fumigate the place. :bounce:

[CoffeePlease1947]

23. He is not my candidate, but at least he doesn't have to declare 3 years

before the election to get 10% support from his own party.

Mike

[Brian Sweat]

51. Ouch!

[Merlin]

7. Clark isn't running for the top spot

He's running for VP. And he's running.

[Bertrand]

9. yeah, because

we know that the presidential race is all locked up :eyes:

[CoffeePlease1947]

12. He is running for VP? Explain.

Why would he even need to run if he was going for VP? Why not just sit back and/or come out supporting another candidate that looks like is going to win? It seems rather pointless, considering that you can't run for VP.

Mike

[Kahuna]

42. Really? Who runs for V.P.? Got any examples?

:shrug:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

20. The Funniest Thing...If This Is the BEST That Clark-Haters Can Do

Clark will be the most invulnerable candidate ever. He will be better than Teflon, he'll be adamantium!

DTH

[Trajan]

36. ISNT there some DU rule ...

about posting this gratuitously mean stuff ? ....

Damn: .. I sure wish there was ....

[QC]

37. Obsession is an ugly thing. Boring, too.

[Kahuna]

38. The fact that he hasn't said no by now, leaves me to strongly believe..

HE'S RUNNING!!!!!!!!! He has to get an organization together before he announces. Hold on to your hat Sonny. General Clark is gonna rock your world. }(

[lindashaw]

39. Isn't it because of campaign financing that he hasn't come out?

If memory serves, I read that he was going to wait until the end of the 3rd quarter to announce so that his financing will be reported as of the last quarter. We all know that a candidates viability rests, not on what he believes or can accomplish, but by how much money he can raise.

[Kahuna]

43. Yepper! Clark needs to report a kick ass quarter after he announces....

The Deaniacs ain't seen nothing yet. I'm not saying that Clark will surpass Dean. This isn't a contest to me. I'm just saying that he will hold in own in the money department. Believe that.

[tjdee]

44. "MY GUESS"

Reading comprehension goes a long way. Really it does.

[dfong63]

45. a candidate who uses false rumors like this,

while refusing to give straight answers to simple questions - that candidate is using the same despicable manipulative tactics as George "read my lips" Bush Sr. you can dance around it all you want, just like Rumsfeld and the poodle are trying to do with their pre-war statements about WMD's. but at the end of the day, they what they said was deceptive. i don't want a candidate who speaks in riddles, teases the electorate, and uses his family members to start rumors. i want a candidate who gives forthright answers. and Clark seemingly lacks that ability.

[tjdee]

46. His son said he *guessed* it would be around Labor Day.

So what's the problem?

His guess was wrong. Things change. So what?

Also, one of Clark's family members that posts here may take issue with your claim that Wesley is 'using his family members to start rumors'.

[TacticalPeek]

47. dfong, how long have you had this strong . . . interest . . . in Wesley?

n/t

[grasswire]

49. this is a tactic of the VRWC

....to take a simple statement and skew it into something more.

Begone!

[MODemocrat]

50. He's enjoying all the attention without having to commit

As an army general, I'd think he would be more decisive than he is.
He would be a good candidate, if only, he would get off the proverbial pot. He's getting a lot of exposure on television, without all the hardball questions the candidates are getting from the media.