Help with a reply please, sent to me "God why didn't you save......

[rainy]

Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?. . .

Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96

Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97

Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97

West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97

Stamps, Arkansas 12/15/97

Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98

Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98

Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98

Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98

Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99

Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99

Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99

Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99

Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99

Santee, California 3/5/01 and

El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

-----------------------------------------------------

----------------------

Reply:

Dear Concerned Student:

I am not allowed in schools.

Sincerely,

God

----------------------------------------------------------

How did this get started?...

-----------------

Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, OK...

------------------

Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible that says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, OK...

-----------------

Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave

because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their

self-esteem.

And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't spank them anymore...

------------------

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children

when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.

And we accepted their reasoning...

------------------

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents.

And we said, that's a grand idea...

------------------

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're

going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.

And we said, that's another great idea...

------------------

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.

And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President, does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good...

------------------

And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.

And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

------------------

And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead...

------------------

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------

Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"

------------------

Pass it on if you think it has merit! If not then just discard it...but if you discard this thought process, then don't you dare sit back and complain about what bad shape this world is in...

[teach1st]

1. If people think God isn't in schools...

..then they don't have much faith. If they seriously think God let a bunch of kids die because organized prayer is not allowed in schools, then they might want to rethink their God.

[exJW]

2. So god cares more about politics than innocent children

nice god ya got there.

[eternalburn]

3. and yet.....

....no mention of guns.

funny.

[lenidog]

14. There is something different than when I was a kid

The guns aren't in a way the problem. When I was going to school the guns were just as prevalent but if a school shooting EVER happened (which was a almost nonexistent event) it was one on one violence one kid had bad blood with a another and decided to kill them. I am not ancient I graduated in 89. Somewhere down the line something changed within a decades times because we had kids deciding to kill off the entire school. I read this article once and it made me think about a possibility. The author was about my age so we had the same experiences but he mentioned one thing that was different from kids of today and when we were growing up. The kids growing up today are being fed pills like Ritalin like they were candy. Also no one has ever done any long term studies on the effect that drugs like Ritalin have on people. He also wondered if any, some, or all of the kids that participated in these school shootings were ever on such drugs. It makes you wonder and I never looked for myself but I would interested in the results. It the results were yes then maybe we have a possible answer.

[eternalburn]

38. awesome points.....

...and I agree.

It's terribly frightening how quickly these drugs are approved and how with seemingly little concern doctors are prescribing them left and right. Schools and teachers seem to be going along with this medicate the youth deal.

Another point : If a child is on these behavior modifying medications and for some reason they have to apply for new health insurance (parent lost a job perhaps) the health insurance companies will deny coverage until the child is off those drugs for a minimum of 18 months.

I think it was Bill Maher who said that currently 11 million kids are on some form of this stuff. I find that figure terrifying.

[immoderate]

4. It wasn't atheists that killed these kids.

It was people who thought they knew the mind of God!

--IMM

[nostamj]

5. bibles are bullet-proof!

why doesn't every child wear them strapped to their chest?

[Cleita]

6. You should write back that God has a commandment about

false gods. Saying that God wrote back is certainly blasphemous IMO. Not only is there a real lack of reasoning in these statements (some fallacies of logic apply that I don't remember the words exactly), this person is lying into having a inside line to God. It's time to put these asses in their place using their own belief system to shoot them down.

[Menshevik]

7. many people have been killed IN churches

was god not allowed in there??? :eyes:

[jmowreader]

30. You haven't been paying attention, have you?

One constant meme among the right is that the liberals are trying to stop prayer in church. I have no idea where they came up with that one, but okay.

Here's reality: when the Earth was still cooling, we had these things called Status Offenses. A Status Offense is a crime that's only a crime because your status is "under the age of majority." Running away from home and truancy were probably THE most widely committed status offenses. How these worked was real simple: you ran away from home or skipped school, the cops found you and threw you in jail for a few days. Then you got six months probation from Juvenile Court--a venue in which the standard was "guilty until proven innocent" instead of the other way around. This straightened your shit out real quick. In the 1980s, every state decriminalized status offenses, and now look at where we are: freepers send e-mails claiming that "removing God from school" is what caused these innocent children to go bad.

Please stop me before I go into my "class size and building size" rant.

[NC_Nurse]

8. Oh Puhleeze...

why didn't God save the 1,100+ troops that have died?

Why didn't God save the 3,000 thaTt died on 9/11/01?

Why did God save the queen?

Gimme a break! :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[progressivebydesign]

9. The Bible says, "THOU SHALT NOT KILL"

But the Bible has more killings than a month long gangster film festivel.

[LoZoccolo]

10. GRAPHIC: Ask the sender why she herself likes killing Iraqi children.

Send her this picture and say you wanna know why she's behind this for no good reason.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Also, ask her why she's a hypocrite. n/t

[MissB]

11. The person who sent this

assumes that morality is only taught through religion. Morality is not exclusive to religion.

[sui generis]

12. Moses Lake Washington!!!!!!

That happened because a child had access to a gun. As far as I know there weren't any gay teachers there passing out rubbers and giving abortions.

Moses Lake happened because children can be very very cruel and they pushed an imbalanced little boy too far and he snapped back.

If the person who wrote that could only understood how ugly that letter is - but then again they can't. That person is a coward.

That person wants to live in a world that does not exist, and wants two apples to equal three oranges. I would definitely respond, and among other things ask that person to remove you from their mailing list.

[Cleita]

17. I know that area well, too and if you ask me there is too much

God if not in the classroom outside of it and too many guns in the county.

[clydefrand]

15. Hmmmm, We Reap What We Sow

We have sown fear, bigotry, arrogance, voter intimidation and fraud. We have sown a hatred for faiths other than that of the Christians. We have sown a desire to kill peoples of another nation based on lies told us by our president. We have sown a distrust throughout the world of our once respected country. We have sown a blatant disreqard for the environment. We have sown a blatant disregard for truth based upon scientific evidence and adopted blind faith based upon the teachings of too many money-hungry ministers masquerading as men of God. We have sown a disreguard for millions of hungry, homeless, sick people all over the world.

AND WE HAVE SOWN THIS ALL IN THE NAME OF OUR LEADER, A LIAR AND A CHEAT, GEORGE W. BUSH.

And I'll sit back and complain until he is out of office about how bad he has made this country and this world. And furthermore God had nothing to do with the children being killed nor with Bush getting elected. Try bad parenting for the children being killed and voter fraud for Bush being elected.

[The Doctor.]

16. That is a quote from Anne Graham...

Yes, Billy Graham's daughter.

It was in response to a question in an interview, "Why do you think God let 9/11 happen?" Which opened the doors of her diatribe.

My response to Ms. Graham's shrill was this:

"Regarding Ms. Graham,
I agree with a few of her points, but I believe Mrs. Graham is more strident than thoughtful, more emotional than factual, and more indignant than insightful. She oversimplifies conditions and makes associations between them that require overlooking the root principles and causes of such to accept them.
Making the association between adult magazines and child molesters does not derive from a well- wrought thought process.
To complain about teen girls getting abortions and then turn around to say that making condoms available promotes promiscuity is markedly irrational. If teen girls are getting abortions, it is then unlikely that they were using any contraceptives.
There are also parenthetical expressions in the body which I cannot discern whether or not they belong to Ms. Graham. Two parenthetical expressions whose insinuations are obviously malicious; “She was murdered, her body found recently”, “Dr. Spock’s son committed suicide”, and one whose intent is dubiously contrasted; “there’s a big difference between disciplining, touching, beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc.”
She seems to have no grasp of what is true of humanity. In Puritanical America families would get home from church on Sunday and Fathers would still beat their own wives and children, wives would still have affairs, sons and daughters would still have pre-marital intercourse (though that was dealt with rather pragmatically), children would still steal or vandalize property, and priests did also molest alter boys.
‘Christians’ used to storm through continents shedding swathes of blood in their wake in the name of righteousness; but they were soldiers. Anyone in this day and age who is not aware of the concept ‘spoils of war’ may not be acquainted with certain practices. The Kuwaitis are. The Kosovo-Albanians are. The Hutus and the Tutsis are… in this day and age. There have been many ages… and many, many more days.
It was because no one spoke of them that things like that were unheard of . - There's nothing to hear if no one says anything.
The associations Ms. Graham is able to illustrate are facilitated by the remarkable information network we now have on Earth. It is because of this wonderful information system of mail, radio, telephones, television, E-mail, international news organizations all coupled with zealous curiosity that we are more aware. Not so much more depraved or malignant. What is REALLY happening is that we are finally seeing the sort of creatures we REALLY are.
But as is the Case with most fanatical types- enough of what they say makes real sense, so at the end of the diatribe, when they give you the choice to either accept or discard the whole of the thought- we find ourselves afraid to disagree with what, for some part, sounds like common sense - So we simply agree carte blanche.

- Dr. Eldritch




Here's the original E-mail:

Regarding:

>Subject: A bit fundamentalist, but the message is good.
>Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:23:47 -0400
>
>>>In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another
>>>for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to
>>>be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
>>>
>>>Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane
>>>Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?"
>>>(regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).
>>>
>>>Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.
>>>She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we
>>>are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our
>>>schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.
>>>
>>>
>>>And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out.
>>>How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection
>>>if we demand He leave us alone?"
>>>
>>>
>>>In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings,
>>>etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was
>>>murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want
>>>prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school ... the
>>>Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love
>>>your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when
>>>they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped
>>>and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed
>>>suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about.
>>>And we said OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline
>>>our children when they misbehave. The school administrators said
>>>no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they
>>>misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely
>>>don't want to be sued (there's a big difference between
>>>disciplining, touching, beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking,
>>>etc.). And we said OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they
>>>want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said
>>>OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys
>>>and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the
>>>condoms they want so they can have all the fun they desire, and we
>>>won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we
>>>said OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what
>>>we do in private as long as we do our jobs. Agreeing with them, we
>>>said it doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President,
>>>does in private as long as I have a job and the economy is good.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude
>>>women and call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the
>>>beauty of the female body. And we said OK.
>>>
>>>
>>>And then someone else took that appreciation a step further and
>>>published pictures of nude children and then further again by
>>>making them available on the Internet. And we said OK, they're
>>>entitled to free speech.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and
>>>movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. Let's
>>>record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and
>>>satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no
>>>adverse effect, nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right
>>>ahead.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience,
>>>why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother
>>>them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
>>>
>>>
>>>Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure
>>>it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE
>>>SOW."
>>>
>>>
>>>Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why
>>>the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the
>>>newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
>>>
>>>
>>>Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like
>>>wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord,
>>>people think twice about sharing.
>>>
>>>
>>>Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely
>>>through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in
>>>the school and workplace.
>>>
>>>
>>>Are you laughing?
>>>
>>>
>>>Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to
>>>many on your address list because you're not sure what they
>>>believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it. Funny how
>>>we can be more worried about what other people think of us than
>>>what God thinks of us.
>>>
>>>
>>>Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard
>>>it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought
>>>process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the
>>>world is in!

Give me a break! Dr. E

[Toucano]

18. The better question is

"How do I get off your mailing list?"

[riverwalker]

19. Fallujah, Iraq 2004

tell the skank to add that to her list and ask her why God didn't save them.

[Liberalynn]

26. Why

if prayer prevents violence why are countries like Ireland so divided. They pray. Are not both sides Christian? Does faith really unite or does it divide?

If religion is the path to a wonderful enlightened utopia then why are Muslim countries who let prayer take place every day not the most peaceful and loving nations ever known to exist? Yes they are not Christian but they do believe in God, as the moderate Muslims say their Allah and our God are the same, one true God?

If children who've attended Parochial schools pray on a daily basis and are duly baptiszed in his name and taught the word of the Lord and Savior then why don't they always grow up to be model citizens?

Also if school prayer is reinstated and a child who is a non believer stands up to pray with the rest so as not to appear an outsider, are his words not blashphemy to God's ears? He doesn't believe the prayer but yet he is saying it. Are you not forcing him to lie to God which one would assume is a sin? Are you therefore creating a sinner instead of preventing one? Doesn't that make you a sinner too?

Did not God create free will because he said he did not want to force people to love and worship him but to offer it up to him willingly as a gift? Do you know so much better than he that you feel able to go against his wishes and force another human being to pray when they do not do so willingly? Are you one of those who Jesus said is a "Judger of my father's law? and not a Follower of my father's law?" Are you then ignoring Jesus teachings?

Also do prayers only count if they are said out loud? I am a bit shaky on my theology but did not Jesus rebuke the pharisees who so publicly trumpted there religous piety as doing it only for their own glory and and reputation and not for his fathers? Why then is it so important for you to be allowed to stand up and say your prayers aloud. Is not the moment of silence enough where each can honor their faith silently in what ever way they chose? Or is it more important to you that the teacher and fellow classmates see how beauifully your son or daughter puppets back the Lord's prayer?

Even more important Is God so only interested in praise that he would let children be murdered simply because he did not receive the amount of public praise he required that day? If that is the God you believe in no wonder the world is in such chaos.

[DeepModem Mom]

20. Easy reply: Please remove me from your email list -- I no longer wish...

to see offensive spam such as this.

If you want to remain friends, add: I hope we can still be friends, and avoid discussing religion and politics.

[davsand]

21. Did GOD give them all GUNS?

Seems to me the common denominator in all of this is the kids had GUNS.

I doubt seriously they should find fault with GOD in all of this--I mean it isn't exactly like no kid ever dies from natural causes.

Those same folks who blame the lack of God for school killings are the ones who say it is "God's will" that kids die of cancer from poisoned water and women miscarry due to environmental factors.

These are the same ones who say it was "God's will" that old ______ died of a stroke when in reality they couldn't afford health care.

Let's ask a few questions here about "God's Will", shall we?

Was it "God's will" that bombs rained down on families and children in Iraq when we invaded them? Was it the plan of God that any young man or woman in the military would come home in a body bag this year? Was it REALLY God's plan for ANY woman or child to die at the hands of an abuser? Did God have it in the works all along that so many of our children would become addicted to drugs or join gangs?

When they can truthfully claim to know the answer to all that, they can feel free to send me emails like this one. Until then, I think maybe I'd be better off left off that mailing list...

Laura

[karlrschneider]

22. Here's an interesting tidbit from the "good" book:

The First Book of Samuel

Chapter 15

1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king
over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice
of the words of the LORD.

2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel,
how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and
sheep, camel and ass.

4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two
hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.

5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.

6 And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the
Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all
the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites
departed from among the Amalekites.

7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur,
that is over against Egypt.

8 And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed
all the people with the edge of the sword.

[Calvinist Basset]

31. Keep in mind . . .

The Bible is a book of faith--written by many, many people who sought to understand the relationship between God and humanity. Unfortunately, they didn't always understand that relationship very well (oh, those imperfect humans).

Too many people pick and choose passages out of the Bible to support their particular points of view. Doing so just gives a skewed read. But really, the task a Christian ought to follow is that of reading the Bible with a perspective that tries to keep in mind the fulness of its witness.

Unfortunately, Bush and his cronies prefer the pick and poke method--insulting not only non-Christians, but many sound-thinking Christians too.

[The Doctor.]

34. "I'm never bo-ored, cause I'm KILLIN' for the Lo-ord!"

Circle Jerks

[Calvinist Basset]

23. Calvin and Hobbes

There used to be a newspaper comic called "Calvin and Hobbes." Basically, it was about a boy (Calvin) with a stuffed toy tiger (Hobbes). He believed the tiger was alive, so he had all these philosophical discussions with it.

I recall one strip where Calvin is walking along with Hobbes and he says, "I can't understand why God allows all the suffering in the world."

Hobbes replies, "Why don't you ask him to do something about it?"

And Calvin answers back, "Because I'm afraid he'll ask the same thing of me."

I've used that illustration in many a sermon . . .

[karlrschneider]

27. Gosh, I didn't realize C&H wasn't still appearing in the comics...I quit

reading the 'funny papers' years ago. Welcome to DU! Would you care to say what flavor of minister you might be?
:-)

[Calvinist Basset]

33. Presbyterian Church (USA)

That's my denomination. And in fact, I ought to log off here and get ready for tomorrow!

But, yeah, C&H was pulled out a few years ago. Its creator, Bill Watterson, had creative differences with the newspapers--he had artistic visions that couldn't be contained in little cubes, and they wanted short, to the point puns and such.

Oh well.

Thanks for the welcome!

[Calvinist Basset]

24. Calvin and Hobbes

There used to be a newspaper comic called "Calvin and Hobbes." Basically, it was about a boy (Calvin) with a stuffed toy tiger (Hobbes). He believed the tiger was alive, so he had all these philosophical discussions with it.

I recall one strip where Calvin is walking along with Hobbes and he says, "I can't understand why God allows all the suffering in the world."

Hobbes replies, "Why don't you ask him to do something about it?"

And Calvin answers back, "Because I'm afraid he'll ask the same thing of me."

I've used that illustration in many a sermon . . .

[merh]

25. For those Christians that have accepted Jesus Christ as their

Lord and Saviour, you would think that they would respect his words and follow them.

Matthew 6
Prayer

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.<1> ' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.


======================
Prayer is a personal communication with God and it should be taught by the parents, not the schools. As a Christian that attended public schools that did not allow prayer, I prayed in school all the time, privately as Jesus told me to do through the gospels. Prayer is how you live, not what you say. Living life in a loving way, accepting others and trying to help the less fortunate, that is prayer.

[karlrschneider]

32. You could have added this also (I'm an atheist who agrees with JC)

(I wonder how many rightwing warmongers care about the words of their
claimed icon)
------------------------------------------------------------------


The Gospel According to Matthew

Chapter 5

1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was
set, his disciples came unto him:

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they
shall be filled.

7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of
God.

10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for
theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall
say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

[merh]

37. Amen!

How they can profess to be his followers and disciples yet fail to follow his teachings is beyond me.

Thanks for the addition.

[OrwellwasRight]

28. God not alowed in schools?

1) If he's God, can't he go anywhere he wanted to even if there was a rule (which there isn't) that he couldn't be somewhere? The whole idea is preposterous.

2) One of the shootings on the list was a shooting of a prayer circle at a school. Wasn't God presumably at the prayer circle? If so, couldn't he have saved the children if he wanted to, or did he let them die just for spite because the prayer circle was voluntary not mandatory?

3) Many of the connections are specious. E.g.: If I'm a fifteen year old and I get an abortion because I'm too young to be a good mom and I want to go to college instead of live in a trailer park, how does that cause a school shooting? First, nobody knows about it because we are taught to be ashamed of abortion, so how could it inspire anyone to do anything? Second, am I the shooter because I'm mad they let me have an abortion instead of ruin my life? Not likely. Something like 98% (or thereabouts) of mass shooters are white males.

Tell the person who wrote you to take a rhetoric class and a logic class and then come back and you'll talk.

[iamjoy]

29. Corrections....

Kind of long, I'm giving a rebuttal to these opinions one by one

****************************
Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools.

And we said, well, our schools have lots of children of all different religions, not just Christian. And when we pray in school we are allowing a government institution to give dominance to one faith. this is unconstitutional. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to those children of different relgions.

------------------

Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible that says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbors as yourself,"

And we said, yes, this follows along with the previous issue. Which bible would we read? And whatever bible we use, we are choosing that religion above others.

-----------------

Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.

And we said, maybe he has a point, how can we teach our children that violence never solves anything when we lash out at them for infractions? We must practice what we preach.

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Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.

And we knew that just as it was wrong for parents to physically harm their children, so it was wrong for the schools to do so.

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Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents.

And we said, I don't like this. but there may be girls who are in abusive situations who would not tell their parents but who would take matters into their own hands with sometimes tragic results. And when medical care is involved, our daughters must feel they can be 100% honest with their providers to get the best care possible and they shouldn't lie because they're worried the doctor will tell their parents something the girl wants secret.

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Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.

And we said, I don't like this either, but it seems that if all our pleas for abstinence fail, we want our children to have a better back up plan than just hoping for the best.

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Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.

And we said, judge not lest ye be judged.
(I would not want my boss to evaluate me on what he/she knew of my personal life, only the way I did my job.) And everyone should be entitled to some privacy, even the President of the United States and his family.

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And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the Internet.

I don't know what you're talking about here. Free expression only applies to consenting adults. I've not heard of anyone calling for an end to child pornography laws.

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And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...

And we said, if I find this offensive, I don't have to buy it, watch it, listen to it, etc. But if we try to get rid of anything controversial or offensive, pretty soon we will have nothing left in our society.


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Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.

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Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"


We do indeed reap what we sow. When we condemn those with different opinions, we teach our children to be judgemental. When we adore zero-sum games in which there is a winner and a loser, we isolate and degrade the underacheiver. When a person loses their job or falls on tough economic times and our attitude is that this peson somehow deserved it, we teach our children to be insensitive to the suffering of others. When we bomb other countries, we teach children that violence is an acceptable solution to problems.

No wonder our children shoot up our schools.

[karlrschneider]

35. Well and truly spoken.

:toast:

[CBHagman]

36. I think the claim about Dr. Spock is probably myth.

Decades ago, when my stepmother was pregnant with my sister, I read "Baby and Child Care" a lot and got a feel for what kind of advice Dr. Spock was handing out.

First of all, most of what he dealt with (at least in that edition, which would have been available in the '70s) was ordinary parenting issues: What do you do with a fussy eater? What if your teenaged daughter claims she's "fat" but is obviously not overweight? How do you care for an infant who's running a fever? That sort of thing.

I seem to recall that he made a reference to spanking and said that he felt that that form of punishment "cleared the air." I suppose he meant that it was better than maintaining an atmosphere of hostility and anger. He added that he wasn't advocating spanking itself.

Years later, I would hear conservatives say that Dr. Spock had told parents to give up spanking and start reasoning with their kids. I don't recall that was his approach in the book I read.

And I also heard that there was a right-wing effort to demonize Dr. Spock because of his antiwar stance. Again, I don't recall him being in any antiwar protests, though I seem to remember that his wife was.

Anyway, Dr. Spock gets blamed for a lot of things, and I think a lot of it is simply pass-it-on right-wing talking points, not comments from people who have actually read the books.

[Shadowen]

39. Simple answer?

Since when has God obeyed his own laws (I can think of a number of times he's broken "Thou shalt not kill", fer example), let alone those of humanity?