"Some people rob you with a gun...some rob you with a fountain pen..."

[kentuck]

Paraphasing somewhat a line from an old Bob Dylan song.... but it's also applicable to the recent election. There are more ways than one to rob a man - both of his money and his vote. But either way, it is stolen.

As Dr. Dean stated, the Bush campaign used homophobia, sexism, and racism to appeal to the lowest base instincts of people. In their own Machivellian minds, the ends justify the means. It doesn't matter if they steal the votes by "fixing" the system or by "fixing" the means by which they appeal to the fears of naive voters. It doesn't matter if they rob you with a gun or with a fountain pen - you are robbed just the same.

In the final analysis, it doesn't matter if Bush got more votes. He stole it. As surely as if he had fixed all the machines himself. It is the same manner in which he went to war. Nothing he can do in Iraq can justify the illegal invasion and the lies he told to the American people. His dishonesty was used as a tool for thievery.

[ArmedLefty]

1. Racism

OK, i'm new so i'm sure i'll catch a lot of crap-

But, let me ask an honest question here...

How did Bush win the election with "racism"?
Don't get me wrong- I didn't vote for the asshole, but I really didn't see "racism" anywhere- although I often see weak minded people leveling it as a charge when it doesn't really exist- just because they know it has gravity, and it halts dialogue.

If you want to be taken seriously, charge Bush with any of the littany of things he has done wrong.

Screaching "RACIST" like a howler monkey just gets shaken heads and dismissive attitudes towards the position, and great sympathy towards his.

[Lost Creek]

3. great first post

hope you have more to add in the future



not

[Eric J in MN]

4. The Republicans were racist in limiting the number

of voting machines in black neighborhoods of Ohio.


http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/983

"The Columbus Dispatch confirmed an Election Day Free Press story that far fewer voting machines were present in predominantly black Democratic inner-city voting wards than in the recent primary election and the 2000 presidential election, with their lighter turnouts. The reduced number of machines caused voters to wait up to seven hours and wait an average of approximately three hours.

One Republican Central Committee member told the Free Press that (Matt) Damschroder held back as many as 2000 machines and dispersed many of the other machines to affluent suburbs in Franklin County."

[kentuck]

6. Just because the black neighborhoods had half as many voting "machines"

as the Republican precincts, and just because people had to stand in lines for 8 or 9 hours to vote, and while they had no problem in the Republican precincts, does not mean they were "racist'. Just opportunistic....uh-huh...Thanks Eric. :)

[Eric J in MN]

2. politicians lying is common place. rigging machines is bigger

I think there is a difference between a politician deceiving people to win, and fraud in the sense of not-providing-enough-voting-machines and/or rigging-the-vote-count.

Lyrics:

Yes, as through this world I've wandered / I've seen lots of funny men / Some will rob you with a six-gun / And some with a fountain pen. - "Pretty Boy Floyd" by Woody Guthrie

[zmdem]

5. In the end

Bush won because he convinced more voters than did Kerry. The rest is spin and analysis, useful for going forward, otherwise only an historical curiousity.

[Eric J in MN]

8. There were also fewer voting machines in black

neigborhoods of Ohio than in white neighborhoods of Ohio, provisional ballots tossed because the signature supposedly didn't match the signature on file (instead of contacting the voter), machines which displayed "Bush" on the confirmation page after someone had pressed "Kerry" on a touchscreen.

[kentuck]

10. "convinced"? As with logic ?

or with fear? Or does it matter? Victory by deceit is no victory. Even if he wishes to declare himself in possession of "political capital", he is only legitimate in his own eyes and in the eyes of those that supported his deception.

[gmoney]

7. Woody Guthrie's "Pretty Boy Floyd" actually...

"You won't never find an outlaw
That'd drive a family from their home"

http://www.tabpower.com/s25128.html

But you're right about the rest...

[jpgray]

13. Yep. Some will rob you with a sixgun, and some with a fountain pen

Bob Dylan was, shall we say, a fan?

[democratreformed]

9. That's exactly the way I feel too, kentuck. And it is so scary. How the

hell are we ever supposed to get honest, decent government in this twisted reality they have created? It is so disheartening that they are able to twist things so completely and appeal to those hateful instincts.

[kentuck]

11. This election is no more legitimate than the election of 2000....

Even if he were able to get more votes this time, if he got them by lies and deception of a scale unknown before now, that does not legitimize the sniveling coward.

[democratreformed]

14. Agreed. I honestly believe that, in the next few months, a great number

of people are suddenly going to wake up and say "What the hell did I vote for?" The really sad thing is, even though I have said I won't, I don't know whether to feel sorry for them or not. Many of them were genuinely duped.

I have never seen such a sickening election in all my life. I have never witnessed so many lies and so much crap.

The really sad part to me - if you really listened, the idiot told everyone exactly what his agenda is - "Stay on the agressive" "Get them wherever they are". By the time he said those things, some people were so wrapped up in their bigotry and hate that they honestly did not hear. So So sad.

[kodi]

12. springsteen's "held up without a gun"

I was out
driving just a
taking it slow
Looked at my
tank it was
reading low
Pulled in a
Exxon station
out on Highway
One
Held up without
a gun, held up
without a gun

Some damn fool
with a guitar
walkin' down
the street
ain't got
nowhere to go
Ain't got
nothing to eat
Man with a cigar says,
"Sign here son"
Held up without
a gun, held up
without a gun

Now it's a sin
and it oughta
be a crime
You know it
happens buddy
all the time
Try to make a
living, try to
have a little
fun
Held up without
a gun, held up
without a gun

[Eric J in MN]

15. kick

kick