Why do we have to reach out to the "stupid" voter.

[Swede]

You don't have a coffee with the "stupid" co-worker. They're stupid. Watch tv for 2 seconds,99% is uninspired,unenlightening, well you know. They don't read books,they watch Fox. They say they are Christian,but ask them from which chapter a quote came from the bible,you'd get a blank. They have a reader's digest,holier then thou, judgemental face,given to them by the right wing. These are the people that voted without a clue what the hell is going on.

[Nimrod]

1. Because there's a LOT of them

59 million and change, to be exact.

[DebJ]

2. you answered your own question:"these are the people that voted"

reaching out, I don't know..

educating is more how I see it

[ClassWarrior]

3. Geniuses like you don't have to do anything.

You're so certain of your intellectual superiority over so many others, why do you even need our approval?

NGU.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[ClassWarrior]

13. You're the one calling people names...

...and I'M the Freeper??

LOL

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

14. For what it's worth...

...what about those people who can quote the Bible, chapter and verse, as well as Marx, Hegel, Kurt Vonnegut, Thomas Pynchon, and Ernest Hemmingway -- and STILL voted for Bush**??

We gain nothing by calling people stupid -- in fact, most AREN'T. They're just overworked, underpaid, and misinformed. Some of the smartest, most clueless people I know voted for Bush**. Explain that, since you're smarter than them.

At the same time, by calling ANYONE stupid, we play right into one of the Radical Rightwing's most enduring scripts: that we Progressives are self-important intellectual snobs. Nice job.

NGU.

[Swede]

15. The informed voters that voted for Bush are greedy.

The uninformed are stupid.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Gee, I wish everything was that simplistic for me.

Unfortunately, we accomplish nothing by reducing the world to Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble.

NGU.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[ClassWarrior]

21. I picked names out of the air.

I was trying to make the point that people who are intelligent and well-read voted Bush** too. Vonnegut and Pynchon and Hemmingway have nothing to do with government. But stupid people don't read Vonnegut and Pynchon and Hemmingway.

So "Chingu." Are you calling me a freeper too, but in a more subtle way than Swede did? Just because I don't agree with you that I should cling to cartoonish and insulting stereotypes about the opposition, rather than trying to figure out how to understand and defeat them?

NGU.

[Qutzupalotl]

4. There are more of them.

I think our best course would be to simplify our message (rather than alter it significantly). For instance, we have the moral issues on our side. Maybe it's time we took that mantle from the right and showed them for the hollow hypocrites they are. Maybe we should propose posting the Beatitudes in all churches.

"Blessed are the peacemakers." --Oops!

[Warpy]

5. We have to wait for those smug, stupid faces to start to crack

and the horror start to appear. We can't reach these dummies with anything we have right now because they "know" what they "know," and no amount of facts to the contrary will change that.

It took Europe 2 world wars and a depression between them to crack rhough this stuff. It may take us much the same.

[JI7]

6. because there are a lot of them , especially in certain states

where if we want to win we need their votes.

[sangh0]

8. You don't and we don't "have to"

but we will, whether you join us or not.

[BlueEyedSon]

9. Reach out and smack them upside the head!

Let's reach out to the other 59 mil who didn't even VOTE!

[BlueEyedSon]

11. The "stupid" voter is a case of garbage-in-garbage-out (GIGO)

Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

Now how do you suppose the stupid voters got those ideas?

[ClassWarrior]

16. That's exactly right BES...

We're talking about two groups of people here, the overworked, misinformed average joe who just wants to be a good, moral citizen, so he follows the pack, and the corporatist elites who manipulate him because it improves the bottom line.

Think of them as moral conservatives and fiscal conservatives... then drive a MASSIVE wedge between them.

NGU.

[firebee]

10. I'm reaching out to the stupid voter....

to choke the shit out of them!!

I love to confront proclaimed "Christians" with quotes from the Bible. Every time I start quoting Psalms, Revelations, Genesis, Deuteronomy, or any other book in the bible; I get this response "Oh, I'm not into all of that, I just believe Jesus died for my sins".... Really??? So, you just like the fact, that "Christianity" allows you to act like a complete jackass without taking responsibility for your actions?? So, in other words... you just like to use the lord's name in vain?

Undoubtedly... you get "Oh.. I don't like to talk about religion"
Really... You don't like to talk about religion or the bible, but you proclaim you're a "Christian".... smirk and walk away.

I'm done reaching out to them... Now I'm calling them on their bullcrap. Bury them and belittle them with their own self righteous bullcrap by destroying their eggshell persona. Make them feel like a pissant.

[seabeyond]

12. we cant afford to feed stupid, a nation a people

cannot be successful at stupid. doesnt work, lol lol. behoves all of us to not have stupid. makes life a hell of a lot easier too

[Deja Q]

18. And, upon asking, we find that most of them hate the same things we do!

Yet they're indoctrined with the "liberals are this or that" shit, while not even looking at those who call the liberals those things to see that those who do the name calling are far worse than what they claim us to be.

[ClassWarrior]

19. What we have to all understand if we're ever gonna make any headway...

...is that they're not stupid, or insane, or delusional - they actually have embraced a different worldview. One carefully crafted and cultivated by the corporatist elites. Under this worldview, their choices make infinite sense. But looking in from out here, it all looks looney-tunes. I'm sure it's the same way for them when they look at us. But if we recognize this, and start crafting our message in such a way as to address this, we can start to find common ground.

Read "Don't Think of an Elephant" by George Lakoff. He explains it much better than I ever could here.

NGU.

[d_b]

22. Lakoff hit it on the head.

'The truth will set you free' mentality that the left has relied on for so long is simply..fruitless. We need to control the language and fight as hard, and dirty when need be, as the opposition. In other words: Superior propagandists.

[zeek]

23. Because in America the right to vote is not based on intelligence

Stupid votes count as much as intelligent votes. We need to inform enlighten and persuade those voters to vote for our causes. The contempt you are displaying here only serves to further alienate moderate voters and plays into the right wing propaganda about elitist liberals.