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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:02 AM
Original message
From the Deck of Hawker Hurricane
"The young recruit, 'e's silly
He thinks of suicide
He's lost 'is gutter devil
'e 'asn't got his pride
But every day they kicks him
Which helps him on a bit
Until one day 'e finds 'imself
In a full and proper kit"
- Rudyard Kipling, 'The Heathen'

Many of you remember the young man who castigated me (in my own house!) over my lack of support for Bush's war against Iraq. You wanted to know if I had spoken to him again.

I have, but through email. It seems the man has more courage than I gave him credit for, and actually signed up. He's at a army boot camp now, and found himself upset that he might be sent to Iraq...(the gall!) and has asked me if there was any way he could avoid it.
After all, since I don't support the war, I must know how to avoid serving in it...

(note to self: save these emails and the replies, people on DU would like to see the originals I'm sure)

The first thing I told him is that I knew of no special trick for avoiding it except DON'T JOIN THE FLIPPEN' ARMY WHILE THEY ARE IN IRAQ! They send the troops where the army IS, and he had no excuse; it's not like some idiot decided to invade Iraq after he had signed up! If he wanted to avoid serving 'in' Iraq, but still serve his country, he should have joined the Navy, Coasta Gaurdia or Air Farce. The only Navy units in Iraq are CBs and medical, if you aren't in those specialties you aren't in Iraq. There is no Coast Gaurd in Iraq (not likely to be any either), and no Air Farce (yet). The Marines are rotating out already. But the poor Army guys are being kept in, extended and everything.

And besides (I told him), didn't he 'support' the war? If he supports it, why not serve where the war is occurring? Hippocracy is NOT a form of government.

But, since he is now a fellow serviceman, I gave him some suggestions:
If possible, pick a specialty that isn't needed in Iraq. What specialties? Well, not much call for mountain troops (although they are getting a workout in Afghanistan)...paratroopers also won't be over there unless things get much worse...artic survival specialists won't be over there...jungle warfare doesn't see much use, either...(other suggestions from DUers will be forwarded if not insulting...and might be forwarded anyway if he annoys me again)

And I ended with one peice of advice (from Kipling, natch)

"When you find yourself wounded on the Afghan plains
And the women come to cut up what remains
Just roll on your rifle and blow out your brains
And go to your Gawd like a Soldier!"

Latest news:
Sparks will NOT vote for Bush again. And if the Democrats nominate a vet for President or VP (Clarke for VP is his pick), he'll vote for him. If not, he's going Libertarian.
Fire will also not vote for Bush, and will vote Democratic. He prefers Lieberman (yuck!, but to each his own) but has decided that Bush and his advisors are NOT pro life, they are merely giving lip service to anti abortion; and besides, on every other issue he disaggrees with them except school vouchers. (Good Catholic that he is, his kids go to a parochial school...he admits that this is a pocketbook issue to him, not a common sense one.)
Wheel says he wants Kerry, as a fellow Navy man, but really doesn't care...anybody but Bush...(congratulate Wheel, he has been promoted to Chief Petty Officer, and later this month will outrank me.)
Guns is still anti Bush, and also would prefer a Vet. He likes Clarke also.
As for me, I will not make my decision until January, when I am discharged and can actually work on a campaign; I intend to pick someone, work for him until he either wins or is out; if out in the primaries I will go work for the primaries winner.

And I remain

Hawker Hurricane
PO1(SW) USN
Leading Idiot Advice Columnist
Some ship, San Diego Harbor
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. I love these posts, Hawker. Please keep them coming!
I remember your earlier stories about these guys, so the updates are great!

How old are Sparky et al.? Do they know about Dean?
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Ages
Edited on Wed Sep-03-03 11:13 AM by HawkerHurricane
Sparks is older than me, about 45.
Fire is 41, a year older.
Guns is 38.
Wheel is 36.
And I'm a nice round 40.
oops, left out about Dean...
Sparks doesn't like Dean, says he's too liberal.
No comment from any of the others yet.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's funny because (and I'm 45)--
they seemed younger than you are. Much younger.

I sort of pictured them as kids in their twenties or something! (Stupid of me.)
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Probably because you aggree with me
Thus making me look mature and educated, while they look uneducated for disaggreeing, and immature in thier reasons why.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. HAWKER
Take it easy on the kid. That Kipling quote about being cut up after a wounding is a little harsh for the guy. Yeah, it sucks that he was dumb. But he was just dumb. He was brave enough to keep emailing you wasn't he?

Just a thought, no hostility.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Maybe over the top
But somehow I still think it was appropriate.
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Aristus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. I applaude you, Hawk. Sounds like you've maintained an even keel
with this guy. I actually feel a little admiration for him, since he put his money where his mouth is. Having said that, I have to laugh that he got himself into this mess,and NOW he's worried about being sent to Iraq. Keep up the communication with him. I hope he does well, and wherever he goes, he comes home safe. MAybe this whole thing will change him.

Before the first Gulf War, I was a gung-ho 'kill, kill, kill' kind of guy. Even though I never got into combat, I see war now in a way I hadn't before. I'm glad it didn't take combat to drill that lesson into my brain.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. What?!
What an idiotic hypocrite! Let's see; I'll join the Army when there's a military action going on (which I support) then I'll express surpise and dismay when the Army (which has FINITE intelligence) sends me to the place where the military action is taking place. THEN, I'll try to figure out a way NOT to go.

Goodness! *shakes head*
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's not so surprising when you consider Hawker's first post
about this kid. He can be rude and...well, not very bright. Hawker's being very kind in giving him any kind of advice.
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Well, I'll give the kid 1/2 ounce of credit...
...for putting his dinero where he puts his dinner. But (a) he could have made a better choice on services to join and (b) now that he's made his choice exactly WTF is he whining about?

Oh well...I wish the kid luck; maybe he'll change his tune a tad if he sees what really goes on in a war zone.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I give him a little credit too, but...
what on earth does he think the military is for?
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Reminds me of my first shore duty...
I worked at Recruit Training San Diego, where I did various duties (NOT Recruit Training directly)...
Since I wore the same uniform as the recruits (Dungerees, but mine had 2nd Class stripes and short sleeves) AND was friendly, the ones assigned to me for 'work week' (5th week of training they use the recruits for odd jobs around base) would ask me questions that they were afraid to ask thier company commanders.
I got a new group every Monday, and each new group had someone ask the same question; I always gave the same answer.
"Petty Officer Hurricane, how do I avoid being sent out to sea on a ship?"
"Recruit, the first thing you do is go talk to your Army recruiter..."
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Always good to hear from ya Hawker
btw....can you take it a little eaasier on us airdales?
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. Probably not
Dad was Air Farce; his stories convinced me to join the Navy.
(BTW, I have a Uncle who put 20 years in the Army, unlike my Father he loved the service, his stories convinced me not to join the Army or Marines; he may have loved it, but it sounded awful)

I reserve the right to mock all services not my own.

And my own, as the mood strikes me.
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indigo32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. Hi Hawker
it's always good to hear from you :hi:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. 'Hippocracy is NOT a form of government.' --- Are You Sure, LOL ???
It seems to be, these days! That's why we have to change things, no?

Thanks Hawker, appreciate all you do!!!

:hi:

BTW - That was a great line!!!
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. No, I'm not sure
But it's not SUPPOSED to be!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
13. Amazing the kid signed up
then wants help avioding combat :wow:
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Yeah, imagine if they dug up a Kerry letter saying this?
better yet, (and more likely) a Bush letter!
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for the update Hawker
You are very kind helping out that idiot in any way. Kepp up the good work spreading the truth!! When do you sail, or do you?
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. October
Short trip up to northern California.
Anybody going to be in SanFran for Fleet Week?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Please keep me posted on this HH
I'll organize something for ya , so I can welcome you home
in Northern California Proud Patriot fashion ...

Send me a pm , I'll find a place to meet and get other
DUers to come too :hi:
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Done and Done
I'll be the one wearing blue...
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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
17. My dad (a Korean War) vet, said to me
That, if one insists on entering the Army, have the common sense to go in immediately AFTER a war.
Dad got screwed anyhow. Using his own advice, he went in after HS in 1949 and got caught up in Korea (well, actually he was stationed in downtown Tokyo). For me, though, entering in January 1974 as I did, I never came close to hearing shots fired in anger -- unless they were whiskey shots downed at the bar while we were talking shit about the swabbos over at Oceana (Norfolk).
My MOS was Communications Center Specialist. I worked with a bunch of top-secret crypto equipment that was tempermental as all hell (computers were in the 1970s, y'know) and had to be kept within a temperature range of 68-72 degrees or so.
Alas, in these days of laptop communication, my MOS no longer exists. Too bad. It was a pretty safe job as Army jobs went. The Army didn't care about me, per se -- but they kept a close eye on the safety of all that signal equipment. I might have gotten myself killed with a missile or an artillery shell, but small arms fire was highly unlikely.
I would think that, if this kid's in BCT, he would have already chosen an MOS. If for some reason he hasn't, I'd at least suggest looking into a field with a long, long school. Maybe medical (but probably not) or intelligence.
Remember, the closer you are to officers, the less likely you are to come to harm. And you eat better, too.
John
72E20
Signal Corps, US Army
Fort Monroe, VA 23651
1974-76
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. Your dad didn't sign up soon enough after
4 years was too long after...

For avoiding combat in comfort, it's hard to beat the Air Force. Enlisted men are the ones in the rear, while the orrificers go out and get shot at.

Navy comes in second; we haven't had a naval war since WW2; and with the collapse of the Soviet Union we aren't likely to have one for the forseeable future. But you live on a ship; and the hours are awful.

Coast Gaurd is 3rd; sometimes the drug runners shoot. Usually not heavily, and the ship is in no danger, but small arms can kill you even if it doesn't hurt the ship.
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Boudica Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
21. New recruit
If he signed a contract that did not specify specialty or duty station he is at the mercy of the Army and it's needs. If he wants to avoid Iraq Field Artillery or Air Defense may be an option. I think that the divisions deplyed after the war went with out the big guns, but I may be wrong.

Other tan that he needs to learn how to deal with the consiquences of his actions.
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
23. Will Sparks vote for Dean-Clark?
Also, can you tell us what your rank is?
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Possibly...
He likes Clarke, esp. in the VP slot (so he can learn the job and be Prez in 8 years), but dislikes Dean.

And my rank is in the signature:
PO1(SW)

That's Petty Officer 1st Class (Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist).
My paygrade is E-6, which makes me equal to a Staff Sargent.
Except in the Air Farce, where a Staff Sargent is a E-5 for some reason.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks for the report.
If he REALLY annoys you, suggest that he train as harem eunuch -- might take some special surgery, though. True, he could go to Iraq in that specialty, but his duty station would be indoors.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Indoors, and air conditioning
Surrounded by beautiful women...
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-03-03 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. You rock, Hawker. Keep 'em comin'
And keep trying, keep speaking out. For those of us who are so perpetually pissed that it's difficult to talk to people "Macneil-Lehrer" style and persuade, we look to you with envy and know that you are carrying on improtant word-of-mouth, which may be in the end the only thing that can defeat Orwellian-Totalitarianims like the Old Soviet Union or what Imperial Amerika is trending towards.

And this ex-Air Farce man toasts your efforts.

:toast: :toast:

PS It sounds like both yours and my 2004 campaign-working strategies are similar...that is, if 2004 is not a laughable Stalinist Farce with Predetermined Outcome No Matter Who Votes for Who as I fear there is a good chance it will in fact be.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Magna Veritas, et prevalet
"Great is Truth, it prevails"
I just tell the truth as I see it, and try not to be rude to friends...all my friends would do just about anything for me, up to and including hiding bodies...great guys, every one.

As too your PS...
I'm not that paranoid.
Yet.
But if Bush wins Florida by, say, 18,181 votes...:tinfoilhat:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-04-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. You're the best, HH.
Just in case I haven't told you lately.

I hope you've been keeping an ear out for Max Cleland's Revenge. He has been on fire lately, and it looks like he intends to stay that way until Bush is thrown out of office.
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