Is Kerry overplaying the Vietnam card?

[dolstein]

Look, I'll vote for Kerry if he's the nominee, but about ten minutes into the introduction speeches for Kerry yesterday, I wanted to stand up and shout that the TV: "OK, OK - I GET IT. KERRY SERVED IN VIETNAM. HE WORE THE UNIFORM. HE WALKED THE WALK AND TALKED THE TALK. HE DOESN'T NEED AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER PHOTO OP TO DEMONSTRATE HIS LEADERSHIP CREDENTIALS. HE'S A HERO. FINE. BUT WHY SHOULD I VOTE FOR HIM?!!!" Perhaps I'm imagining things, but I don't remember John McCain trumpteting his Vietnam service at every opportunity back in 2000, as Kerry seems to be doing now. I think it's reaching the overkill point, and I think it's theatening to turn Kerry into a one-dimensional candidate.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I think it is relevant...as relevant as saying that no one who opposed

the war can get elected.

[vi5]

2. The degree to which they question dem patriotism...

When I can think of many more dems who served this country in uniform and in war than I can republicans, make the issue fair game and need to be driven home.

Kerry and his supporters think that his having served in uniform is the way to beat bush, just as Dean supporters think his anti-war stance is the way to beat bush just as gephardt supporters think his labor support is the way to beat Bush*.

You use what you got and you keep using it.

[robsul82]

7. There are...

...Gephardt supporters?

Later.

RJS

[ButterflyBlood]

11. plenty

just not on the internet

[uptohere]

3. personally yes but...

I think its more telling that he feels the need to keep bringing it up. It shows that he recognizes that most people don't know anything about him or the others (67%) so he can't afford to not say it every time for fear that this is the first that listener has heard of it.

[Caution]

4. McCain and Vietnam?

Are you serious? There wasn't a single story about McCain in the media that didn't have the words Vietnam and POW in it.

Kerry is playing up that side of things to capture votes from the people who care about that kind of thing. That may or may not be you (appears not). It gives him a lot of credibility in the eyes of certain types of voters. If you wish to know more about where he stands on the issues go to his website. The reason candidates need so much damn money is because they are trying to get their message out, well with the Internet we can go and look. Do so. Then make up your mind, a big splash event and photo op did nothing for me on Kerry. His speech that day on the other hand was phenomenal and has put me back on the fence between Dean and Kerry.


And on his war vote:
I'm not going to hold a single vote against a candidate who has fairly represented me and my liberal interests for my entire adult life. People, even Senators make mistakes and he made his when all of the information made available to him, told him and his conscience that he was doing the right thing.

[dolstein]

12. Journalists played it up

But I don't remember McCain bringing up his Vietnam service except in response to questions, and I remember him speaking up his service in very modest, humble terms. In short, I never got the sense that McCain was exploiting his service in Vietnam for political purposes. Now perhaps that's because he didn't have to, because others were perfectly willing to do it for him. But here it's Kerry who's putting his Vietnam service front and center. He holds his announcement in front on an aircraft carrier, surrounded by veterans. I'd like to think that Kerry has done enough worthwhile things in the past 35 years that he wouldn't have to keep harping on his military service. Seriously, the guy's a four term U.S. Senator. His record of accomplishment as a public official is far more important to me than what he did in Vietnam back in the 60's. The last time I checked, the Presidential didn't personally lead troops into combat.

[Caution]

21. Then read up on his record.

His Vietnam experience is relevant because the voters, the media, and the republicans have made it relevant. They have been trumpeting the call to war for nearly 2 years. They environment in this country is one where a leader's military history is important. We are involved in a war on two fronts right now (afghanistan and iraq). Kerry is saying he has been there and is capable of leading the US in the current climate. It's a smart move politically. Kerry's record is phenomenal as a senator and anyone here who says otherwise hasnt checked and is relying on one issue. Throughout his career Kerry has nearly always fallen on the side of the issues that most posters on DU say they espouse. If you want to know Kerry's record, look it up. The information is there. He made his first speech as an official candidate and you are accusing him of exploiting his military record? Did you read the speech? It is quite long and most of it has nothing whatsoever to do with his record. I'm a Massachusetts Liberal. A Democrat. I love Kerry. He has nearly always treated me as a constituent properly. I grew up in public housing, if it hadnt been for him and Kennedy I'd have lived in a slum and barely been able to eat, instead I had a roof over my head, my parents worked hard and eventually were able to buy their own home. That was 3 years ago, I was 27 and I cried over it. The environment is better because of Kerry's efforts, women's right to choose is stronger because of him, the list goes on.

Am I a supporter of Kerry? Damn straight. Am I behind him for President? Nope. Right now I'm a Dean guy. Why? Because I think Dean has the inroad on the hearts and minds of the voting public and has the best chance to get that freaking lunatic and his cronies out of office. If Kerry can show me otherwise I'll change over to him in a heartbeat because I respect him and everything he has done for me, my family, my state, and my country.

[Caution]

31. For the record:

From his speech in front of the aircraft carrier:

I reject George Bush’s radical new vision of a government that comforts the comfortable at the expense of ordinary Americans, that lets corporations do as they please, that turns its back on the very alliances we helped create and the very principles that have made our nation a model to the world for over two centuries. An economic policy of lost opportunity and lost hopes is wrong for America. An international policy where we stand almost alone is wrong for America.

<more>

First, we must restore a foreign policy that is true to our ideals. We will defend our national security and maintain a military that is the strongest armed force on earth. But, if I am President, I will never forget that even a nation as powerful as the United States needs to make some friends in this world.

<more>

I don’t want America to turn its back on half a century of effort by every President to reduce the nuclear threat. I’m running to put America where we rightfully belong -- leading the way to a new international accord on nuclear proliferation to make the world itself safer for human survival.

<more>

In World War II, Detroit was the arsenal of democracy. Today they need to raise their gas mileage and build the vehicles of the future that use clean, renewable energy like ethanol. I also know there are some in our own party who resist this because they fear it will cost jobs. But it’s right for America -- and energy independence will create 500,000 new high-paying jobs right here in this country.

<more>

In a Kerry Administration, we will recommit America to one of the greatest unfinished challenges of our time and of all time -- to save our environment, to protect our oceans, to reverse the tide of global warming. We will not let polluters rewrite our laws in return for campaign contributions. We will make them and not taxpayers pay the bill to clean up toxic waste. And we will disprove the lie that protecting the environment can only come at the expense of jobs.

<more>

If I am President, I will rollback the Bush tax breaks for the wealthy so we can invest in education, health care, and the skills of our workers.

<more>

Early this year, I was diagnosed with prostate cancer. I was cured -- because as a United States Senator, I was lucky to have some of the best medical care in the world. Millions of Americans are not so lucky -- and I’m determined to change that. I propose to give every American access to the same health coverage as a Senator or member of Congress. And I say to you today: Your family’s health is just as important as any politician’s in Washington.

<more>

I’m a hunter and I believe in the Second Amendment but I’ve never gone hunting with an AK-47. Our party will never be the choice of the NRA -- and I’m not looking to be the candidate of the NRA.

<more>

The conscience of Americans can guard our fundamental liberties and preserve them for generations to come.

And that is just a few of the snippets that talk about his views and future policies from that speech in front of an aircraft carrier.

[phillybri]

5. I'd like to see him take it down a notch.....

And I think he will...I think this was his his angle because the announcement is an event people will remember. He needs to re-focus on the issues now.

[quinnox]

6. It is a danger

But it also is one of the few things that differentiates Kerry from all the rest. The only way to know for sure if the strategy is a good one is to see what happens in the primaries.

[OrdinaryTa]

8. He Has Nothing Else Going For Him

He doesn't have personality. He doesn't have issues. He has combat experience from 30 years ago, but he hasn't shown anything recently by way of leadership or courage.

Go with what you got. Kerry doesn't have much. But don't waste any sympathy for him; he didn't show any sympathy for the people of Iraq.

[Bombero1956]

9. Why not

it's certainly a card * can't play.

[quinnox]

13. Kerry has many other strengths

But all the Dem candidates agree basically on so many things, Kerry is playing up his military background to make a distinction.

[TLM]

26. I think it will backfire....

the dem base will see KErry as the big military guy who voted for the war in Iraq.

The last thing this base wants is another warrior pushing for war in the white house.

And Kerry being a vet would hold more water if he had not voted to send so many us soldiers to their deaths.

[dfong63]

42. and what card will Lt Kerry play when Gen Clark announces?

Clark seems to represent the ultimate in that kind of thinking, the kind of thinking that assumes that one's military record is more important than one's political record.

[quinnox]

44. Who knows?

Time will tell.

[CWebster]

10. Dolstein....

Gets it. ;-)

[Cheswick2.0]

14. I don't think Viet Nam matters

it didn't with Clinton and it didn't in 2000

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. Did Bush overplay the 9-11/Afghanistan/Iraq/Carrier Landing card?

Kerry's just playing on the field Bush (and Rove) has set up, and he's making Bush look like the poseur and fool he is.

[TLM]

20. He is making the same mistakes other dems made...

trying to beat bush by following in Bush's footsteps.


How long before we see Kerry in a tank?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. Nope, he is showing that the emporer has no shoes in which to stand.

Kerry's confronting Bush in the lie Rove and he tried to orchestrate.
Bush will pay dearly for his insult to true veterans and military.
Kerry is bringing the fight right back to Bush.
I LOVE it!

[TLM]

33. Maybe but dems don't generaly dig militarism...

which base is he trying to reach, his or Bush's?


This won't help him in the dem primary. It just makes him look like war monger light and a hypocrite.

He's doing the same thing Bush did, and hyping his military background after voting for this Iraq war to play up the warrior angle.

This would have been great if he did this in the general and used it to attack W. However he used this oppertunity to attack Dean... again pushing the idea that Kerry is the warrior candidate.

A bad move. It will cost him.

[Zolok]

16. No....after what happened to Max Cleland

anything goes...Bush et al are at war with Viet Nam Veterans in almost any way.
Identifying himself with that group is sounds politics for Kerry.

[TLM]

22. It is a bad play at the wrong time...

being the big military guy isn;t going to carry him in the primary.

THe might help in the general, but not the primary.

Kerry has forgotten his base, he's trying to win the republican base, and he won't.

[eileen from OH]

17. Ayup.

eileen from OH

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. You have a beautiful Irish name (same as my sister)

but I am afraid you are wrong. Kerry is a real veteran, and Bush is a coward who hid in the Texas ANG and didn't even show up in Alabama.
After 9/11 this country doesn't need a coward CIC.

[Raven]

18. I think he's very wise to play the war record card.

Look, the shrub went AWOL. He never saw any action other than at the local bar. He got into office and got us into this terrible quagmire called Iraq. He's been wrong all the way along on Iraq and his "roadmap" is in shreds. He had the gall to swagger onto an aircraft carrier and declare the war won. This is what I think of now every time I see Kerry and I hope that is what the American people will start to think too.

[JVS]

19. Walter Sobchak complex

[phillybri]

39. I love that movie.....

"Fuck it, Dude. Let's go bowling...."

[JVS]

40. "I'll have you know that the Supreme Court has roundly rejected ...

prior restraint"

[Rose Siding]

24. I would have thought so but

yesterday as he spoke, there were a couple HERE- at DU- that didn't even know he's a vet and with low nat'l name recognition, he might as well pound it. When the press gets tired enough of it to say so, he'll have a problem.

[WilliamPitt]

25. Wow

I remember dozens and dozens and dozens of conversations here about Bush's bullshit war record, and won't someone walk it to him, and won't someone stand up and show what a real hero looks like?

Meet John Kerry.

I also remember several conversations about how vomitous it was when Bush strutted across that aircraft carrier. Meet John Kerry, who deserves to be there way more than Bush. Kerry actually served on boats in combat during war.

If this is the level of discussion we are going to have about candidates, we should hang it up and go fishing, because we're already done.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. Kerry recognizes Rove's "theater of the absurd"

and he is playing his part brilliantly.
Rove has gotten way more than he can handle in Kerry.

[TLM]

29. Will it is still vomitous...

"I also remember several conversations about how vomitous it was when Bush strutted across that aircraft carrier. Meet John Kerry, who deserves to be there way more than Bush. Kerry actually served on boats in combat during war."


Bush on the aircraft carrier was awful not simply because he had no right to be there, but because it was such a crass calculated stunt. It was a cheap ploy to promote his political career, using our military as props.

Now Kerry does have more credibility being in front of an aircraft carrier, that's true. However it is still just as crass of a political stunt and ploy to promote his career.

If Kerry wants to shake the Bush Light label, he shouldn't be campaigning like Bush with gaudy cheap stunts to try and play up his militarism.

That's not going to resonate with his base.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. Do you not recognize parody? nt

[TLM]

35. No not when our troops are dying at a rate of 2 a day.

Because of a war Kerry voted for... he should be honoring those men and women, and working his ass off to get them home.

Not trying to piggyback his crass career moves and self-promotion on their suffering and dying.

[JVS]

34. I'd like to comment on that vomitous carrier stunt

Yes it was extremely unpleasant seeing Bush strut around like some kind of martial god, but it was not purely because of his AWOL/ big faker status. That was merely icing on the cake. The fact of the matter is that strutting around like you are some kind of "groesster Feldherr aller Zeiten" is plain old offensive. Even if you are a Nam vet or war hero or however you want to put it. My problem with Bush, and I bet this is true of many here, is what he is doing. It is not what credentials he has to be doing it. I don't sit here and think, "Oh, that big faker Bush. How dare he wage relentless war on the world. He shouldn't do that because he went AWOL" I don't think ANYONE should be strutting around in a bellicose manner, even if that person singlehandedly killed every German solidier at Normandy, it is bad policy and highly offensive. So if a candidate seems to be trying to fill the niche of being "The great Warrior president you can take seriously" they have seriously misjudged what I am looking for in a candidate.

[TLM]

38. As we all know vomit is so much better the second time.

you hit the nail on the head...

I do not want another war happy struting president, regardless of how many little yellow people he killed.

Kerry being a real vet only makes this stunt slightly less offensive.

The fact Kerry is playing up the big war image just like Bush, is made all the worse when Kerry then turns around and tries to tell the dem base he is against the war in Iraq.

I'm sick of this play both sides crap.

[CWebster]

36. Bush may have tried to play the part

but what gain is there to emulate or glorify what Bush measures as a good and heroic thing?

Personally, I would have a much higher regard for Kerry as a good and decent man that had experienced the brutality of war, had he a sober and humane commentary on it to express to the American public. The pomp and circumstance of a military parade are a gross display while humans suffer needlessly because of a needless and inhumane war for political glory.

[rucky]

32. He's Not Speaking To YOU

You're more informed than the average bear. Since the media isn't helping much, there's gonna be LOTS of repitition in the Primary campaign. If I hear Gephardt talk about his milk truck driving dad, I'm gonna puke, but people who haven't heard it before tend to dig it.

Nobody's overplaying any cards yet, because they're still playing the first card to the millions of people who haven't heard it before.

Patience, grasshopper. It'll start to get interesting soon.

[w4rma]

37. I don't think he's overplaying the card. Folks who rarely pay attention

to politics don't know who Sen. Kerry is. It gets boring for us who already know alot about the guy, but us Democrats have to remember that there are many many many many people who know hardly anything about him. Volunteering for two 365-day tours in combat zones during inside of Vietnam during the war is very impressive no matter how you look at it.

Besides, him playing up his patriotism and self-sacrificing military background helps the whole Democratic Party as it forces folks to understand that there are many high-profile veterans in the Democratic Party and our Party isn't as stereotypical pacifist as the Republican Party and the insane right-wing would like less-informed folks to think.

I, for one, hope he talks for hours and hours about his tours of duty. If he loses the nomination and does talks about his tours of duty as a proud Democrat while punishing Bush's extremitism and pushing good policy, he will have helped the Democratic Party as a whole.

I think Sen. Kerry should talk *more* about his brave background.

[Snellius]

41. I used to think so until Iraq started to look like Vietnam

Let's face it. Nobody but Wolfowitz really cares about "Iraqi Freedom". Whether they choose to blow each other up or vote for Arnold Schwartzenegger, they're free to do whatever they want. The sooner we get out of there the better. It's a lose/lose situtation. Just like Vietnam. Everyone knows it. Whether they admit it or not. Bush can't get us out. His ego and reputation is too wrapped up in it. He'll only pull some kind of "peace of honor" crap. Kerry is unique not only for being a war veteran but also for being an antiwar veteran.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. You get a star for that post

Kerry is also uniquely qualified given the added experience he has had on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

[Eloriel]

46. Kerry is even more unique than that, actually

Kerry is unique not only for being a war veteran but also for being an antiwar veteran

who went on to become one of the very men he once protested against: one of the old men who send young men (and now women) off to die in wars for stupid reasons.

And that I can't forgive him for -- until, of course, he renounces his vote and asks forgiveness of the American people, Iraqis, the world.

So the "me too" carrier stunt fell a little short for me as well, but then I wasn't exactly predisposed to like it.

Eloriel

[RobinA]

45. Nobody Should Be Strutting

around an aircraft carrier except a soldier currently on active duty there. It's cheap, it's a stunt. It's a cheap stunt.

Yes, Kerry is overplaying Vietnam. The fact is, it doesn't matter and it shouldn't matter. He sounds like he is still fighting an old war. And don't get me wrong, I doubt very much if he actually IS fighting an old war. Prior to the campaign he probably never thought about Vietnam as much in a year as he now does in a week. He needs to base his campaign on what he can do now, not what he did 35 years ago.

And I speak as someone who thinks Kerry has the best chance of beating Bush. I just wish he were better able to get things off the ground.