Let me be VERY clear:When we are killing them they are "terrorists"..

[underpants]

when we are negotiating or trying to appease them they are "insurgents" or "rebels"*.

Got it?



* Focus groups in the South aren't very clear as to whether they like that term being used for Iraqis but hell the election is over and we own their asses anyway so who cares what they think.

[shoelace414]

1. Anyone we will is an insergent

we don't kill civilians "500 insurgents killed today"

[underpants]

That is true

"Insurgent" also applies to a civilian who is in the path of a bomb.

[russian33]

2. But if they're terrorizing anouther country, which we don't like...

..then they are 'freedom fighters'

[merh]

3. You mean like Afghanistan and the Soviets?

:shrug:

Oh, I get it now! :cry:

[underpants]

4. Right...um no.....um.......

Are you comparing the great United States to the Commies???? :grr:


Uh yeah that is exactly like that.

[russian33]

9. No, USSR should've never gone into Afghanistan..

..Afgans were freedome fighters back then, fighting off the agressor...I remember each day at school they posted recently dead graduates...and like with the Iraq war, we really had no clue why our own are dying there.

[merh]

12. Which is what Iraqis are today (imho) we are the occupying

nation, the agressor, some of the "insurgents" may be terrorists as alleged, but most are freedom fighters. imho

[russian33]

13. oh, no doubt, i agree 100%...

of course there's some who just fight for the sake of fighting (now that we've established a local al-qaida branch), but that's a minority in my opinion

[underpants]

16. The economics of war

Aside from the direct benefit of being paid actual cash (or so we hear) I think a lot of these "fighters" are probably from the lower classes and this is the quickest way to move themselves up. If you have nothing you have nothing to loose and when the entire governmental structure is suddenly gone everyone immediately has the ability to increase their lot in life. I think some of the "stable middle class" who are out of work are joining in as well.

Think of it this way-Suddenly there is no police force, the oppressive controlling government is completely gone, all positions and status is gone....now if I can control my block and possibly spread my influence over to the next street...and on and on.....I have to be reconned with. When things settle down (or blow up completely) and things are parsed out guess who gets a seat at the table? ME!

Just an idea but that is how I have seen this whole thing going down from BEFORE the invasion. The powers that be should have too.

[russian33]

18. The power vacuum 'we' created in post-war Iraq was huge

I've never seen, in history of wars, such absolute lack of post-war planning. These people really believed we can go in and out of this, and not be involved.

[underpants]

19. Ya know I don't know if they ever really believed that

First of all they said it so the likelihood of it being a lie is...carry the 1....about 114% by my calculations.

Anyone who took five minutes to think about what they were proposing had to realize that it could never be THAT easy, nothing is. They just went over the top on both the threat Iraq posed under Saddam and how easy it was going to be. A good sales job no doubt but making the sale isn't where something like this ends.

[Cat Atomic]

5. And when other Iraqis kill them, they are patriots.

Odd world.

[mhr]

6. The New CIA (Christian Intelligence Agency) Agrees

eom

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. You got the memo correct

good work.

[dolo amber]

8. What were the colonists who fought

for America's independence...terrorists or insurgents? :shrug:

[underpants]

10. Rebels!!!

Oh and the Tories who supported staying with the Crown of England were..........conservatives.

[billyoc]

11. East coast liberal elitists. n/t

[RBHam]

14. Who Is A Terrorist?

Who Is A Terrorist?

By Ghali Hassan

27 July, 2004
Countercurrents.org
http://www.countercurrents.org/hr-hassan270704.htm

excerpt:
The last few weeks have witnessed the US forces bombing civilian houses in Fallujah on six occasions, killing dozens of innocent civilians, including women and children, each time. The excuse for this barbarity is that the US intended to kill a "terrorist" by the name of al-Zarqawi. According to the
people of Fallujah, "al-Zarqawi does not exist. He is a made-up figure". The US occupation forces in Iraq have been claiming that al-Zarqawi and his Arab and non-Iraqi Muslim fighters are hiding out in Fallujah. Dr Muhammad al-Hamadani, a Fallujah resident told Aljazeera News that he had no knowledge about any non-Iraqi fighters in the town. "As a Fallujah citizen, and head of the Fallujah Scientific Forum, I can tell you that I have never seen or heard anything about non-Iraqi fighters in Fallujah". "We hear about al-Zarqawi in the media, but have never seen or felt his presence or any of
his followers in Fallujah", he said. Al-Zarqawi proves to be a good bogeyman for the time being. The underlying objective of this is that the US is misleading the public and using the rhetoric of antiterrorism as a cover for terrorism. It is part of Western propaganda to instil fear and hatred into
the Western mind against Muslims.

Iraq has not attacked or threatened to attack the US at any time. This was all done on the rationale of to " disarm Iraq from 'weapons of mass destruction'". Of course that proved to be completely untrue, and Iraq's so-called WMD has been destroyed in the summer of 1991 in a genuine attempt to allow for the lifting of the genocidal economic sanctions. The Iraqi people will unlikely forget or forgive the Americans for the crimes committed in their names.

The American media analyst Edward Herman wrote, "it is the West and Western interests that have pushed terrorism to the forefront, not the 'terrorists'. The West has done this because they want to use terrorism as an ideological instrument of propaganda and control". The only truth about this "war on terror" is that it has no end in sight, and it will absorb resources vital to the well being of societies. It is a war on the poor and powerless.

[underpants]

17. Yes the right's Boogeyman campaign continues.

I don't know if I agree that it is the West pushing terrorism to the forefront (9/11 anyone?) but the right (and the left if you buy into Howard Zinn) have for a long time been pushing whatever Boogeyman is available or needed.

Cold War (with some Qaddafi mixed in)
--near the end-Ooops running out of bad guys...what about our CIA guy in Panama Ortega? Perfect
--Okay what now? Uh.....our CIA guy in Iraq is amassing troops near Kuwait....send him a very vague communique....okay he bit ATTACK him and get someone to start writing songs about him

--Okay what now? Uh...shit......OOH Clinton!

[Randypiper]

15. Prime Minister Iyad Allawi

said on Saturday that there had been no civilian casualties in Fallujah.

http://www.themercury.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=284&fArticleId=2299536