Oh, Big Deal. So He Got ONE Vote Wrong.

[OrdinaryTa]

Some Republican evasion techniques are creeping into the thought processes of Democrats. When Bush lied in the State of the Union message, we were told: Oh, big deal. So he got ONE sentence wrong. We're now hearing the same minimization from John Kerry's supporters. Oh, get over it. So he got ONE vote wrong.

We'd get over it quickly if it weren't that particular vote at that particular time. Kerry was in a position to know that the justification for war was at best flimsy and quite possibly fraudulent. We were out in the streets by the hundreds of thousands making that very argument. Kerry turned his back on all of us because he was afraid the right wing would get pissed off at him.

Condoleezza Rice said, "It was just 16 words." And Kerry's supporters say, "The vote wasn't that different from previous positions." Well, yes it was. At a time of great anguish, when we desperately needed leadership from prominent Democrats, John Kerry failed us.

[paulsbc]

1. i like his worming

statement yesterday about voting to "threaten" force. uh, did he read the bill before he voted for it? :)

[Cheswick2.0]

3. He voted for the bill he wished it was , I guess

I still think we should draft Byrd.

[ButterflyBlood]

24. an 87-year old former Klansman?

not exactly the most viable presidential candidate.

(note: I'm not trashing him over the past, just pointing out that definately would be used against him)

[lcordero]

2. That ONE VOTE along with the ONE VOTE by a lot of

Democrats has costed over 12,000 lives, countless wounded, and over 70 billion dollars. I will not excuse that ONE VOTE under any circumstances.

[quinnox]

4. If Kerry had voted against, it wouldn't have changed anything

I don't see this point made ever in these war vote arguments, but it's true.

[paulsbc]

6. but it shows his character

or lack thereof, especially now, as he worms and wiggles to position himself now that Dean has captured the H&M of the faithful.

[TLM]

9. It would have changed a lot... had he voted against it

he'd be my number one or number two pick. It would be a close fight between him and Dean.

As it is, Kerry is down the list with Lieberman.

[wryter2000]

10. If he had voted against it

If he'd voted against the war, it would give him the moral authority now to go after Bush. I must admit that, although I plan to back him with enthusiasm if he gets the nomination, I kind of cringed yesterday listening to him shout "The president never made the case for this war." If he tried saying that in a debate, Bush could just turn to him (as I did yesterday) and ask, "So, why did you vote for it?" :shrug:

[shanti]

5. please stop with the jabs

didn't you read all the threads about doing this?! it just plays into the repukes's hands.

[OrdinaryTa]

12. Strategic Voting

We can go around and around about strategic voting versus conscience voting. I'd agree that there are some issues in which it's okay to go along to get along. But some issues just cry out for a vote of conscience. Slavery is such an issue. Child soldiering is another. The conscience issue of our times is pre-emptive colonial war. It has to be rejected ... it can't be voted strategically.

Regardless of his war record, John Kerry is a coward. If by some mad circumstance he becomes president, he will disappoint true Democrats over and over again. We can't overlook this kind of treachery in a high-ranking politician. Because Kerry (and some others) refused to show any leadership, Bush waged war on Iraq essentially unopposed.

The times require real heroism, and John Kerry is not a hero. There's no point in considering him for the presidency. He's broken trust with us before; he'll certainly do it again.

[Monte Carlo]

I'm biased, but I don't think anything is straightforward in Washington

... especially when it came to the Iraq vote. Kerry was in a position to know the evidence was possibly bogus, but not in a position to act upon that. It's called politics, and we cannot expect our politicans to make these decisions without consequences on both sides. The Presidency is more important than that vote.

[lifelong_Dem]

7. Single-issue voting is dumb

That's all.

[dfong63]

14. it's no dumber than strict party-line loyalty

[quinnox]

8. One other point

When you use words like "failed us", it is incorrect. It assumes everyone agrees with you, and I hope I'm not bursting a bubble here, but there were millions of Dems who agreed with Kerry's vote for war and would consider the vote a success, not a failure.

[TLM]

11. Will they be enough to win him the primary?

I doubt it.

[dfong63]

15. good point

Will they be enough to win him the primary?

good point, especially as more and more people come to realize that the Iraq was was a mistake, based on lies.

[OrdinaryTa]

17. Millions of Democrats

millions of Dems who agreed with Kerry's vote for war

Millions of ordinary Americans were bamboozled into thinking that the war on Iraq was payback for September 11th. Some huge number of them - something like 65% - thought that Saddam was the guy behind the attacks. Another high percentage of people believed the outright lies that Bush and Cheney and Powell repeated over and over.

None of this excuses Senator John Kerry, who was certainly in a position to be at least skeptical of administration claims. Kerry was very aware that a vote against the war would be unpopular, and possibly even cost him his seat in the Senate. He'd survived a rough and tumble re-election campaign against Weld, and he's also aware that blue state Massachusetts elected conservative Mitt Romney. Kerry voted to save his ass. There's nothing admirable about what he did. It's unworthy of a leader of our party.

[meegbear]

13. So I guess we all HAVE to vote for dean now, right?

[paulsbc]

16. no

Kucinich, Sharpton, Mosley Braun, and Clark (assuming he runs) didnt' vote for it either :)

i'm shallow, i just wish Kucinich looked and sounded better, i can't seem to overcome the feeling he'd be squashed as the candidate (too many memories of dukakis i suppose..)

[Cha]

19. You should vote for whomever you want to vote for.

That's what you really should do! :kick:

[revcarol]

18. He made a HORRIBLE MISTAKE in judgment:

HE TRUSTED BUSH, and this is what I am having a hard time forgiving.

He, Mr. Dumba** Kerry, thought that Bush would go to the UN, and do all the inspections necessary, and then, if the UN thought a legitimate case had been made, we would invade under UN auspices...

He, IN A POSITION TO WATCH EVERY ONE OF BUSH'S MACHINATIONS ON the environment, labor, taking money out of the budget for Afghanistan,closing down every program where he had a photo-op, underfunding essential programs, HE STILL TRUSTED BUSH.

And this is a TERRIBLE MISTAKE IN JUDGEMENT.We have seen how Bush lies and is untrustworthy from Day 1 of this administration.

[Pocho]

20. QUIT KNOCKING ON MY DOOR. I AIN'T BUYING ANYMORE.

[library_max]

21. "My Candidate Sucks So Bad That I Have To Attack Yours"

All hail CoffeePlease1947! He has come up with the perfect formula for dispelling all these negative campaign threads! All you Dean-bashers, Kerry-bashers, any-Democrat-bashers, please repeat after me: “MY CANDIDATE SUCKS SO BAD THAT I HAVE TO ATTACK YOURS.”

If I were a Bush supporter, I would be ROFLMAO to see all these Democrats ripping each other to pieces. My candidate in the general election is Anybody But Bush. As for the primaries, I haven’t decided yet. Amazing, ain’t it? Considering that the primaries are only six months away.

Come on, ladies and gentlemen! Unity, please! Eyes on the prize! BUCK FUSH!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

22. You must be a program, a virus?

can you post something new? :hi:

[library_max]

23. Reply from the virus

You mean something "new" like "Kerry voted for the war, he's no different than Bush," or "Dean's supporters are a cult, pass the kool-aid"? I'm repeating this because it says what needs to be said, and it needs to keep being said until we stop ripping each others' candidates to shreds.

You know why there's a new anti-Kerry thread seven or eight times per day? Because his opponents know the power of repetition. You have to fight fire with fire. I don't respect the militant anti-Dean position either, but at least they're not so prolific. Pro-Kerry and pro-Dean people are fine in my book. We just need to keep it positive.