Before you all keep "blaming" the south.

[Jackie97]

Look at the picture regarding the electoral results of the election.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/

It makes most of the country (not just the south) look red.

Not that this is the same as slavery, but there is something that this time period has in common with them. While the north self-righteously condemned the south for slavery, they profited from it.

In this case, the north condemns the south for being conservative, while millions of them voted for the chimp themselves.

Not that this election is like slavery. It's not. I'm just illustrating the hypocrisy of the north in both cases.

It won't do any good to scapegoat the south (even if they do have some serious problems and are more vocal about who they really are). It will only push away the MILLIONS of southerners who voted for Kerry. People shouldn't be like that, but they get like that if a group they're in gets isolated as generally dirty.

[mhr]

1. Hypocrisy Of The North - What Point Are You Trying To Make?

You lost me completely here.

[one_true_leroy]

2. C'mon...

you know you wanted to write "y'all" :)!

[Anarcho-Socialist]

3. I agree

Besides, the western plains of the Dakotas, Utah, OK, Montana, Wyoming et al are much deeper red than the South.

[Lindacooks]

4. 'self righteously condemed the south for slavery'...???

Yeah, right, the Civil War was fought on the basis of self-righteous indignation.

Go read your history.

[comsymp]

13. Maybe you should reread yours?

After all, some areas of the Union still allowed slavery well after the Emancipation Proclamation... and the EP only addressed slavery in areas of the South that were still actively hostile *at that time*

/just sayin'

[Jackie97]

15. to add to that.......

I only called it self-righteous because so many people in the north were profitting from slavery. If you're going to profit from slavery, then don't criticize the actual slaveowners.

But yes, slavery should have been condemned. That would have been a good reason to have the civil war; if it wasn't about saving the union at first instead.

And to address that other person, "'yall,'yall,'yall. What's that got to do with conservative ideas or Bush?

[comsymp]

19. True, Jackie

Was in a hurry to leave work so I cut it short- didn't mention the fact that our Northern neighbors profited mightily from products which they wouldn't have enjoyed without slave labor- cheap cotton, tobacco, sugar, foodstuffs in general... and of course, let's not forget who was helping Mrs. Grant with the housework while the good General was down in the Land of Cotton~

Frankly, as far as slavery is concerned, there's enough shame to go around.

[Lindacooks]

21. Nope, as a Northerner all my life, I will NOT be ashamed

because certain parts of this country enslaved human beings.

[comsymp]

22. "Certain Parts" included the North, y'know

In fact, slavery wasn't prohibited by law in CT until 1848 - did you know that?

Just as many fine New Englanders engaged in the kidnapping and transportation of Africans to the Colonies.

If you are unfamiliar with the true history of slavery in the US, Google is a great place to start, BTW.

[Jackie97]

23. And what about the certain parts....

that benefited from slavery or profited from it. Take some responsiblity.

It's about how we condemn child labor today, but still buy products from companies that engage in it.

[sandnsea]

5. That's partially true

But I think it denies the reality that the kind of Republicanism that is taking over comes from the south. It used to be the Yellow Dog Democrat, now it's the fundie Republican. The whole mentality and it's creeping across the nation. I'm the first to point out that it's a city/rural split; but I also refuse to deny the politics of the south. I don't want a southern economy or social order and I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist.

[Jackie97]

16. I think the south is just more vocal.

Notice how many states (including northern ones) did stuff like condemn homosexual marriages. They all have some fundy in them that makes them want to vote Republican.

Not to mention, while many know that their party is being hijacked by the fundies, that doesn't stop some Republicans from voting that way anyway beause they still like that party better than the Democratic party. The truth is that a heck of a lot of them wanted their taxes to stay low and they probably wanted to keep their war president (because they *thought* he'd do better than Kerry, the former anti-war protester; or so called flip flop).

[bobbyboucher]

6. Us blues are carrying their lame asses and listeneing to their

whines makes me want to hang from a rope. I couldn't give a shit if none of them ever votes Democratic again. It is you who is making them sound stupid, not themselves, and certainly not me. Are you implying that the minority who vote Democratic will vote Repug because we lump them all together and insult them? So you think they are that petty and stupid do you?

Nice try.

[Jackie97]

17. Do you want Republicans to keep winning?

Then you need to care if they keep or start voting Republican.

It's not okay to start leaning right over being isolated by isolators, but it happens.

Ask people from the military. I'm sure some of them will agree. After being singled out, a lot of them lean right.

And I don't appreciate your name calling. I could call you names for your attitude, but I don't.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. the truth?

The hard truth is it is not South vs. The North or any other region. Looking at the map and others similar to it, it is almost clearly, rural/suburban vs urban! Education levels play a small role, as do many other factors, but what I have seen, it is mainly urban against suburban. I have yet to read why this is or if it just an anomaly, but it is striking that the most populous urban cities, go to the Democrats and the 'burbs and rural areas go to the republicans. There are a few areas that break away from that model, but that is what it seems to me.

[sonicx]

8. we're still on this?

it's not about 'the south.' it's about the Bush voters in the south. the bush voters in the NE suck too.

[President Jesus]

12. yes, but they suck based on their stance on issues...

...issues that one can debate them on and sometimes win over.

There are not many blue-state pukes who think they were commanded by God to vote for Bush.

[yewberry]

9. Pssst...Jackie...

While I understand what your motivation might be (and I don't blame the South for anything other than BillyRay Cyrus), calling us self-righteous hypocrites probably isn't going to win anyone over.

[Bluebear]

10. The northeast is constantly insulted too.

There's plenty to go around.

[donheld]

11. Heres a map

[tjwash]

14. First of all, no one is blaming the south...

...and second of all the North didn't profit from slavery, they used child labor and forced labor debtor work camps, and sweat shops. You know, the "good old days" conservatives want to return us to.

I actually started a thread after the election thanking the southern DU'ers for all their hard work. We out here in California are out of touch with just how difficult it must have been, to be a Kerry supporter, and be active in trying to sway the vote to the blue side. Just the fact that many DU'ers were starting discussion threads, on things ranging from their Kerry signs getting vandalized, to their houses getting shot full of holes by some Billy-Bobs who "Didn't want some damn commie living next door to me" were indicative of the day in and day out struggle that had to be endured by the people fighting against these so called "morality voting" people.

So, at least from this Californian, let me again thank all of the southern DU'ers for all your hard work and perseverance.

:hi: :toast: :hi:

[Jackie97]

18. Thanks TJ.

Really.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. Whoa. Goods/crops produced in the South by slaves were also bought...

...by manufacturers in the North who used their sweatshop labor to turn them into finished products. Based on my readings from that time period, the Northern manufacturers seem to have profited quite nicely from what I call "double-dip" slave/sweatshop labor.

And to be fair, the "Billy-bob" mentality can be found throughout the country...North, South, East, and West. I've lived and/or worked in Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, West Virginia, California, Michigan, Minnesota, Kentucky, and Alabama, and I've traveled through the remaining Lower 48 states...they ALL have the same issues that everyone wants to stereotypically blame on the South.

And yes, I currently live in Alabama and see stuff every day that I was taught was wrong by my Southern parents.

I forgot to add that quite a few DUers were ranting and raving about the South in the days following the second selection of El Chimpo the Magnifico. Yes, those folks were most definitely blaming the South in its totality.