Email response took my breathe away. What to answer?

[chelaque liberal]

I sent out the Helen Caldicott article to people, mostly "the choir" but I included this person who I knew was Republican but I had no idea.....

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/11/15/1100384498193.html

"You know, I agree that Armageddon will follow Bush's re-election! Why, because it is Biblical. There will be an Armageddon but it won't be until after Christ returns and we go thru the Tribulation. It will be the battle that ends all battles! It will be between Christ himself and Evil, itself.

All that is in the news is leading to this fact. As I study the Old Testament the awesome reality of "fulfilled prophecy" has made itself known to me. There are many prophecies that are coming true now and the stage is set for more. It would happen no matter who was elected. If Kerry had won we still would have Armageddon in the future!

I hope you don't think I am "radical" with this statement. It is just that I, personally believe it as truth. Christ will return and my future is with Him. It is a promise that is carried thru the entire Bible, both Old and New Testament.

Ginny, I hope my beliefs on this issue doesn't dampen our budding friendship. Remember we agreed to agree to disagree in politics and religion. I can't promise that I won't try to share my religious beliefs because I care for you . I do promise that I won't preach at you though, because I know you have had some bad experiences with "religion".

[datasuspect]

1. see

you need to try and understand this person so you don't alienate them. (/sarcasm)

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. bushistheantichrist.com

that is how you answer, and let that sink in

Now also play the following game with her. Those who are members of the false church will not be saved, only those who are not deceived are among the chosen.

See how that plays

And yes I am being very evil here

[pacalo]

25. I like that!

[gulfcoastliberal]

53. Your handle and previous handle make me want to scream. eom

nt

[Devil Dog Dem]

3. Don't bother responding, except maybe some fluffy . . . .

"we'll just have to agree to disagree."
Not worth your time.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. How many times must you tell these people...

That no man will know the hour of His coming and that there will be false signs and false prophets?

Sad. So ready to give up on what their God gave them...

[Demit]

5. Well, will it dampen your budding friendship? I'm curious.

[chelaque liberal]

21. I don't think I could be a real "friend". Civil and superficial at best.

It's just weird though. We live in a small community. We are on a board together and have been mutually supportive of each other on several issues.

I never realized she thought like that.

[Stephanie]

27. I would not even go that far - I would never speak to her again

Honestly, she wants to kill you and your children. She would like us all dead, so she can rise to heaven and smirk at us from above. Is there a psychological study of these people? It's a freaking suicide cult!

[tavalon]

48. But actually,

it looks like she is trying to reach out to you, while being honest that her beliefs are quite different than yours.

Yeah, I wouldn't let her into your inner sanctum, but she offered up a smidge of tolerance, IMO, and I think some careful reciprocity might be a good idea. No, I'm not saying offer up any agreement on the Armaggedon stuff but maybe say a similar thing about how your values are very different but that you see that she is a nice human being despite these differences.

[alittlelark]

6. My mother believes the same.

It does not matter how bad things get, because she will be raptured. She was excited on 9-11 because she figured it was a signal. There is a temple they are trying to re-build in Jerusalem...then Christ will come. I grew up with this stuff.

[juliagoolia]

33. I bet you can hear the code talk

Bush uses too can't you? I hear it all the time when he talks and he is talking directly to folk like your mother.

Dern, when you are dealing with people that think they are going to be whisked to safety and heaven while the rest of us live in a hell on earth.. there isn't much logic that WILL work.

I think we need to talk them out of thinking its any time soon. WE need a real charismatic preacher type to do his own interpretation that points to it being quite a while away.

[kiki]

7. Chalk it up as

one of those "bad experiences with 'religion'" you're always having...

[Mountainman]

8. Ask her to give all her possessions to you. Test her faith.

She won't need them in the future since she's going to the promised land soon.

Hell I think we should start an Ebay store to sell the goods of the Christians who believe like she does. If they won't sell their stuff then they really don't believe what they are saying.

[pacalo]

29. I like your answer, too!

[RevCheesehead]

36. snicker-snicker

That's a good one! Mind if I borrow that for one of my sermons?

Maybe a good reply to the "friend" would be "can I have your TV?"

[Star]

69. Love it!!

Love it, Love it, Love it.

What a perfect response.

[sangh0]

9. "I hope you don't think I am "radical" with this statement."

Respond, "In that case, you won't mind if I mention your belief to a few of our mutual friends?"

[hatrack]

26. Or perhaps "No, I just think you're a member of a death cult"

Or perhaps, "No, I just think you gave up the responsibilities of an adult - chief among them the duty to think for yourself - in exchange for spouting a bunch of infantile brainwashed bullshit."

Or perhaps, "And what if Jesus doesn't return? What if we end up nuking half a dozen cities and shutting down the world economy in the process of setting off "Armageddon"? Will you still feel confident and saved knowing that you could have at least tried to prevent the deaths of tens of millions but chose instead to roll on the floor in church, mouthing garbled noise?"

Oh, I particularly liked that Armageddon will follow Bush's reelection, since it's in the Bible. But it would also follow Kerry's election, though that is (by implication) not in the Bible. So you see, logic doesn't matter, cause and effect doesn't matter, mention or non-mention in the Bible doesn't matter - nothing can keep you from Getting Your Armagedd-On!

[sangh0]

28. They work for me!!

.

[eek]

43. I would like to have her provide some back-up to the "studying"

that she has been doing.

What bits of the Olde Testy?

What are those other prophesies that made themselves known to her?
Where did she get the scoop on the "more to come" stuff?

[comsymp]

10. I'd suggest the standard Liberal response

something along the lines of "to each his own" or "I respect your right to believe as you see fit."

What's the big deal?

[AP]

11. Draw out her arguments. Ask her what prophecies are coming true...

...and then do a little research on what she says.

Often, it's enough just to get people to start backing up their emotions with facts.

[The White Tree]

73. Also, ask her what she is doing to prepare

How does she know she will be chosen, is she giving away all her things to charity, has she told any lies, lusted in thought and word, supported a president who's actions have lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent people.

Only thing is you have to be careful with stuff like this. I am always afraid of pushing people over the edge.

Christ said to always be prepared for the end times (I don't have the exact passages now but this is the gist). He basically said you must always be prepared because you never know when the end was to come and you would not have the chance to repent. I tend to think he wasn't so much talking about his return, but rather that you never know when something might happen that prevents you from making amends (like getting hit by a truck) so you should always strive to live by his word.

Taken that way it is really immaterial one way or another whether Armageddon is coming now or 1000 years from now because each person of faith should be striving to live the same way regardless. And if she were to die and Armageddon did not come then she will be prepared anyway. For on that day the dead are supposed to rise and the faithful taken to heaven (if you believe that sort of thing which she apparently does).

[Old and In the Way]

"It will be between Christ himself and Evil, itself."

Christ v. Bush.....I'd pay big money to watch that on pay-per-view.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

65. Celebrity Death Match!

Where is it when we need it? ;)

[Worst Username Ever]

12. All the fundies believe this.

They beleive that GWB IS the anti-christ, and he will bring upon the rapture.

Unfortunately I dn't think anyone told the fundies that the book of revelation is really about predicting the fall of rome, and was not even going to end up in the bible but they included it anyway.

[pacalo]

34. Did they really vote for GWB because they think he's the anti-Christ???

I've gotten into discussions with my born-again cousin, but I never heard her say that. Mostly, I just listened, though. I'm feeling bitter against her already, but if she voted for GWB because of this reason, I think it best that she & I go our separate ways. After all the worries about my two sons being drafted that I confided in her, I have no patience for her gullibility & ignorance for not learning more about this evil man.

[Worst Username Ever]

39. I have had it said directly to my face that George Bush is

the one who will bring upon the return of Christ. I extrapolated that this means he is the anti-Christ, since the anti-Christ is the individual who will perform this function.

Also, Fundies do not care about the environment.... since after the rapture it won't matter anyway. Oh and the bible says we are "stewards" of the earth, which I guess means we can do whatever we want with it instead of take care of it. Also, all wars in the middle east are a positive thing, because that is the first step to Armageddon. Etc.

[pacalo]

64. This is like a bad dream -- hard to believe it's happening in our country.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Yup. These nutjobs WANT nuclear war or disastrous global warning

or anything else that will guarantee our extinction. That way they can be Raptured and go to live with Jesus. They get to kill off the species to justify their insane religious delusions. Up to now I've been tolerant of other people's belief, no matter how weird. Worship tree spirits, Jesus, Allah, whatever; just don't push it on me. But these people are really dangerous because they're fixing to kill us all off so they can go home to God. It's like Jim Jones and the Kool-Aid, but they are trying to force us all to drink it.

[gratuitous]

14. You're dealing with someone whose grip on reality is fragile

You might point them toward a scripture or two. Matthew 23 and Amos 5 come to mind (I don't have the exact cites). If you're not interested in continuing a friendship with this person, you should let her know as gently as you can, and perhaps with the admonition to consider the possibility that she or her interpretation of the Bible might be incorrect.

[Walt Starr]

15. One word description for this individual

Nutball

[Bluebear]

16. How's that "budding friendship" going? :)

[Verve]

17. WoW! Maybe you should tell her you believe * is Lucifer in disguise.

She shouldn't hold that against you. She won't want to "dampen your budding friendship". LOL

[mmonk]

18. I can't relate to that person

because I'm reality based but I'm not going to let them destroy my reality and happiness without an Armageddon of my own!.

[MuseRider]

19. If it is a budding friendship

then maybe it is not that important. This line is the answer to what your discussions will be like in the future..."I can't promise that I won't try to share my religious beliefs because I care for you . I do promise that I won't preach at you though, because I know you have had some bad experiences with "religion"."

They all say this and it becomes increasingly more important for them to slip it in every conversation. Of course it is up to you. I had some very bad religious experiences myself and for me it is important to cut this stuff off before it begins.

If she were not going to try to save you she would have simply said, this is what I believe and dropped it or maybe not said anything at all.

[smiley_glad_hands]

20. AAAAHHHHH, Fundies! On edit: Definately tell her W = AntiChrist

Personally, I find this whole rapture thing to be a morbid fascination of self denial over the realities of mankind's fate and future. As humans, we must live for tomorrow, whether or not you are a Christian. Those who live for death, shall die by their own hands---quote from somewhere. God, will never reveal his plan to you until the time has come and gone....

Its hard to have a rational conversation with these people if you don't speak their language (believe as they do).

[bobbyboucher]

22. Ask her if there is a "Statute of Limitations" on her lunacy.

How long do we have to wait until we can call her insane? Surely, there has got to be a point when this becomes ridiculous. If the world is just a fucked up place in 5, 10, 20 years, can we just chalk it up as the way things are, especially when so many people believe the end is neigh? I mean what kind of world can be built when so many think everything is GONE any day now.

Let me explain, there is wacky weather because we have fucked up our atmosphere and the "global village" makes every bit of weather news come close to home. There are "wars and rumors of wars" because of bad leadership, greed, and the usual, and the global village thing brings it into our homes. Earthquakes? There aren't more than before, just more news of it.

When can we put these lunatics away?

[pacalo]

23. I feel for you. I have a born-again Christian cousin whose personality

is totally different now. Everything is God's will & God "talks" to her. Too bad he doesn't tell her it's wrong to run up large bills & ignore the phone calls from creditors when she sees their identification on her caller i.d.

People have been predicting the "end of the world" since I was a child. I remember seeing self-proclaimed soothsayers with signs warning "The end of the world is near -- repent now!" ever since I can remember in the French Quarter in New Orleans.

These people are brainwashed. If we didn't have the most inept, power-hungry president in American history in the WH, the world wouldn't be in so much turmoil. The born-again Christians who are of your friend's mindset about the impending "rapture" seem to be ignorant to (or overlooking) the fact that this president wants perpetual war because it makes millions of dollars for his corporations &, of course, for him & his neocon cronies. They're enabling him to proceed with his dangerous policies because of their sad gullibility -- they are blindly following him without looking beyond Faux News.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

24. Tell her that in 2008 she's going to owe you a democratic vote.

[juliagoolia]

30. They've been saying this for 2000 years at least.. who? here is who>

http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm


They are all planning on it ending. The plan to take us with them and the Armageddon scenario is the way to get there.

http://www.nccg.org/nccm/rapture.html

This simple Bible teaching has been extended by many churches and groups to mean that all true Christians will suddenly be whisked away into the air BEFORE Christ returns and BEFORE the period of anarchy which the Bible calls the "Great Tribulation", a seven-year period of terror during which a world dictator (called the Anti-Christ) reigns supreme.

[Anakin Skywalker]

31. The Armageddon is Already Here!

Every time I hear rapture statements by fundies like this guy, it makes me very sad that there are still such people in this day and age. :(

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Just read up on the non-apocalyptic versions of the faith

------------------------------------
Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/

[ChickMagic]

35. Off subject

But I'm Ginny too!

[chelaque liberal]

52. Hi Ginny

[Tsiyu]

37. Drama Queens

There isn't enough drama in their lives. In the frenzy of a church meeting, they get the adrenalin rush, that kick they don't get from food ( and they can't drink or do drugs, Lord knows).

They thrive on drama, and what's more dramatic than an Armageddon?

What Christ said about that was that nobody but the Father knew the hour. Anyone who tries to predict the Rapture ( if it doesn't relate to the fall of Rome but to a future scenario) is saying they are more "in the know" than God. Pretty arrogant stuff there.

Not only that, you'd better be caught helping the poor, working for justice, showing mercy, loving your enemies and doing unto others as you'd have done to yourself when Jesus returns.

Paul thought the end was coming in his day. He advised folks not to marry because he believed so strongly in Christ's imminent return. Imagine if every Christian had taken his advice?

[RevCheesehead]

41. AHA! I've got it! "THE CO-DEPENDENT CHRISTIANS!"

I think it was the use of "drama queens" that clicked for me.

These are the same people who cannot function without something or someone to hate/fight. Without their co-dependent fix, their faith is reduced to an empty call to "salvation."

SALVATION FROM WHAT??
(and I am quite serious in asking that question!)

When someone tells me "I was saved on June 21, 1974" I reply, "good. Glad to hear it. What have you been doing since then?"

It's one thing to "say the magic words." But it's quite another thing to actually re-make ones-self into the image of Christ (or if you prefer, to adapt the Christian morality/lifestyle of love and charity, and self-denial).

[pantouflard]

45. That's a great description - Codependent. Yes!

[Tsiyu]

47. The ones I know have theatrics all day long

Satan is the antagonist, waiting around every corner to tempt or attack. The "faithful" could really be said to be the "fearful."

Co-dependent is right on, Rev Cheesehead. Amen to the Rev

[yardwork]

67. Yes, and the flit from obsession to obsession

Apparently, the Rapture is "in" right now, but soon it will dropped in favor of some other nut-ball fashion that the Rethugs will manipulate to their purposes.

Too bad these people can't just collect pet rocks or something.

[strategery blunder]

42. In addition, running bu$h*co's foreign policy to incite the Rapture...

is a very bad idea. Because no one knows the hour, we cannot say (even according to fundie theology) if the Rapture will occur two seconds from now, two millenia from now, or two billion years from now.

Now, bu$h*co's environmental policies alone will contribute greatly to the earth becoming uninhabitable in a few centuries. Did the fundies ever think of, "Well gee, what if the Rapture is still a long way off, we might get kinda screwed with bu$h*?"

I hope you can see where I'm going. I think the Rapture is overblown myself, as for centuries people have tried to predict it and have been proven wrong.

[intheflow]

38. I'm so sorry you had to get this response.

But--damn!--if she didn't want to preach to you about religion, she could have just not answered!

[rowire]

40. Your Friend Must Read This

Matt. 24:36 - many people try to predict the coming of Christ. But Jesus says, "no one but the Father knows the day and the hour." The people that try to predict Christ's coming ignore these words.

Rev. 22:20 - Jesus says He is coming soon, but He does not tell us when He is coming. Because Jesus says we do not know the day or the hour and will be surprised at His coming, it is silly, and disobedient, for people and groups to predict His coming.

[superconnected]

44. throw backs

I had to attened an evangical church a few weeks ago for a baptism.

It was a new renovated building that look liked it was renovated to be a tv stage from the Tammy Faye Era. Big leather chairs on the stage, the minister and guests sat in, teil blue carpet, white fake greek pillars on the stage. It was one of their "regular" churches.
Then I had to sit and listen to the ministers with hair that looked like it was solid hair spray, talk against gays.

Not good since I'm very liberal and attend a liberal church normally with a gay minister.

I got the idea that these evangical people believed in a God that doesn't like them. Or anyone for that matter. He doesn't accept people of other religions and he is standing over them chalking up the sins - masterbation, gay, abortion, not supporting the troops in iraq, etc.

Anyway, the point is, it looked more like a creepy society than anything else. It's not normal, in the sense of modern churches, it's normal for THEIR sect.

Feel sorry for your friend. I bet she believes in the OT but skips the 10 commandments - thou shalt not kill, I bet she calls herself a Christian but doesn't believe in anything Christ said - love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek. The fact that she reads the OT and doesn't stick with the NT - new covenant is pretty telling.

I bet under her rules for salvation, Christ wouldn't make it.

[chelaque liberal]

55. Interesting. My husband made the same connection about the OT.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. Jesus himself said that not even the angels in heaven know

when the world will end. (Can't remember the chapter and verse.)

What gives her an inside scoop?

[DuaneBidoux]

49. You can have a "budding friendship" with such ignorance?

[pantouflard]

50. Your situation is a microcosm of the larger struggle we're all faced with

How to deal with these Death Cultists? It would be great if we could just write them off as deranged and pitiful, but the fact is these loonies have real political clout, and a real evil plan to run the country.

In my own life I've decided just to avoid certain subjects with my family members. When my grandmother tried to get me to read the "Left Behind" books, I just made an excuse. When my sister told me that 100,000 dead Iraqis were just "the cost of war," I waited until later to cry. I know I will never convince them to respect my viewpoint, and I will certainly never respect theirs. It's just easier to talk about something else.

It's a real tough one. On the one hand, I feel that it's not okay to allow these people to think their lunacy is okay. On the other hand, if I say that to my sister I will lose her, and never see my nephew and niece again.

I would say this to you: if this person is going to be in your life for a while, keep the peace. But at some point I would kindly tell her that you are disappointed in her for believeing as she does.

As always, kindness is the key. Then come to DU and vent!

[desi826]

51. I've been battling this as well--but rowire has the winning argument-

to start.
Those two scriptures are a great start when added with the fact that the Fundies have been going to the White House trying to make sure Bush is "doing" things to "make" the scriptures true.
Bottom line here, God doesn't need our help to carry out his Word.
Those two scriptures point out not only this, but the fact that He has also anticpated our tendency to make these assumptions, very clearly.

The disconnect with these people comes where you follow the events of the end times.
They cannot come without the Anti-Christ.
He must come first.

Start by asking who is the Anti-Christ in their scenario.

They are lost almost immediately.

In their eyes, they do NOT see Bush as the AC, they see the AC as some "evil manbeing" that has not yet arrived, but this is not the desciption of this particular character in the bible.

He is supposed to be charming, personable, someone who can fool you with his smooth words...a wolf in sheep's clothing.

They want to see Bush as the man leading the fight against the Anti-Christ, without wanting to admit that there would be no "fight" because the guy would be too charming and would fool everyone.

The person that most fits this character IS George Bush.

This is what they MOST don't want to admit.

It would mean that they just voted into office....The AntiChrist.

Sure doesn't say much for their vaunted "moral values" does it?

I have dozens of Repubs "getting back" to me as to an answer to the question that THEY got themselves into.
Des

[Solomon]

54. Why don't you ask her if she is familiar with the gospel of Thomas?

They wouldn't put that one in the Bible because in it Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is already here. It is not something that men will say "where is it, or when will it come".

[aneerkoinos]

59. Gospel of Thomas

There are lot of interesting things there. Jesus forbids taking interest, thus he is clearly anti-capitalist. He also says that day will come when women who don't give birth are blessed, which is interesting considering the over-population program - and absolutely contradictory to "procreate and fullfil the Earth".

[VOX]

56. In a way, she is reaching out to you.

She sounds sincere and respectful of your beliefs. If possible, can you open yourself up for a little give-and-take with her? Just make sure that there's a boundary set up where she will not preach to you, and that you will not tell her that she's nuts, etc.

My wife (a self-described atheist) has a friend who's a rapture-believing fundie, and they get along pretty well -- there is a mutual respect there, and it's a pretty good friendship.

[aneerkoinos]

57. Shor History of Christ

In Nicea and shortly after those he didn't have "ears to hear" and could not and would not take Jesus' logos into their heart but instead in their blind fear looked for security and comfort in blind faith (=Pistics, from the Greek for 'to believe') made pact with earthly power, Emperor Constantine, established Church, put together the forgery called Bible which distorted Jesus' teaching to suit the needs of Emperor, and promptly started to burn books to hide the truth (including the Library of Alexandria) and massacre everybody who didn't agree with them, starting with Gnostics. Gnostics, who by something akin to miracle left us the library of Nag Hammadi, found only few decades ago, containing the true teaching of Jesus, most noteworthy the Gospel of Thomas, best available source for what Jesus actually said: http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm

Ask which is more dear to your friend, Jesus' teaching or Church and Old Testament?

From the Gospel of Thomas it becomes clear that there will be no "second coming" in any literal sense, what Jesus tought about "kingdom" of Father is that it is allready everywhere, inside and outside us, we are just blind to it, and we will reach the kingdom by making two one, making no difference between inside and outside, beginning and end. Kingdom is freedom from dualism, enlightment. Second coming is finding the spark of true light inside you and becoming one with it, one with Jesus, Father and Everything, becoming Christ OneSelf.

No sane person should take the deranged hallucinations about "last battle" of John seriously, least of all literally. If there is Anti-Christ, it is the Pistic Church with its numerous schizmatic nominations, all the Popes and Bushes of the world of Power, who stay closed to gnosis and instead, through their own blind ignorance cherish and spread ignorance. Most certainly their earthly rule is nearing it's end, as the age of Pisces is coming to end with second round between Gnosis and Pistis, knowledge and faith, and they will do their damnest to make that end as violent and destructive as they can. Yes, by their own action, destroying the enviroment, other species, overpopulating Earth, worshipping money and making constant war they - we! - try to destroy all of it. This is what they mean by Harmageddon, without knowing it and realizing by taking side in the battle they - we! - want to begin and thus creating the enemy, which is their - our! - own image in the mirror, they - we! - have allready become anti-christ.

The battle is everywhere, new wave of schizm is going through every nomination, gaybishop in Anglican church is just one good example, after the current Pope dies, Catholic Church is very likely to break up openly (BTW there is very interesting Medieval prediction about the current pope being the penultimate Pope), it is cultural fight between open minded uniting and creative humility and closed minded dividing and destructive arrogance. But most importantly this spiritual Jihad is fought inside each of us, all the time, and the battle will never end before both sides surrender. You can't defeat your enemy, because the enemy is of your own making, and by fighting him you only make him stronger. You can only join him. See the end of Matrix if you don't take my word for it! ;)

[regnaD kciN]

58. Ho-hum...

Yep, all the current news is leading up to Armageddon in the near future.

Just like all the current news was leading up to it in the early '70s, when Hal Lindsay (the first fundie mega-seller author) was writing book after book on how prophecy proved that the End Times were right around the corner, when we found ourselves at Armageddon facing an invasion by the armies of the U.S.S.R. (Huh?)

And, I'm sure, just like all the current news was leading up to it in the mid-'30s, when famine was striking the land, war was raging in Europe and Asia, and the Roosevelt administration's NRA logo was identified as "the mark of the beast."

And just like all the current news was leading up to it in the early part of the 20th century with the "signs and portents in the sky" represented by the return of Halley's Comet.

And just like all the current news was...

:boring:

[demigoddess]

70. I have it on good authority, a christian preacher, that the world is

supposed to end in 1991 or so. OOOPS
I love their logic!!!

[whistle]

60. Fundies are really crazy, you know that. They believe that the endtimes...

...means their own salvation, so by hastening it along through ridiculous wars and massive weapons they somehow think their doing God's work. That totally nuts! The wrong people are in mental institutions.

[NurseLefty]

61. If there was ever a time for God to speak up, it is now.

Look at all the vile, disgusting shit that is being done in His/Her name.
Would Jesus approve of televangelists robbing their lonely viewers of their pension checks? Does Jesus approve of *'s war that has killed nearly 1,200 US troops and over 100,000 Iraqis? Would Jesus approve of the LIES that war is based on? Would Jesus approve of all the greed of the republicans and their wealthy corporate friends, while the nation's poor and sick continue to suffer?
Think of all the other bullshit things done in God's name. I'm surely mad as hell, He/She should be, too.
:mad: :nuke: :grr:

[Hobarticus]

62. Back away slowly, block that e-mail address...

...and forget this ever happened.

[donheld]

63. This does not surprise me at all

I was raised to believe this. I'm sure my mother still does. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's why they don't care about global warming etc. Cuz Jesus will rapture them and all will be fine.:eyes::eyes::eyes:

[The Zanti Regent]

66. My whole family is brainwashed by the rapture BS

Jesus is coming next week, they say.

Next week comes, He pulls a no show...

Jesus is coming next week, they say

Next week comes, He pulls a no show...

on and on and on...

[hfojvt]

68. I would mark that topic off limits

I am sorta dismayed by all the hostility towards this person. I do not think a belief in "the end times" is the worst thing in the world. I certainly would not make it a mission to convert her away from her belief. I also have found discussions about it to be a waste of time. It is a little bit like arguing law with a law school graduate - until you goto law school yourself, they will tie you up in knots (unless you are a savant). Is the issue important enough to spend years studying it? Not to me.
As I said, there are worse things to believe and to do, and I find some fundies to be very decent people.

[prolesunited]

74. As stated before

They're beliefs are *NOT* harmless. It's not as if they still believe in Santa Claus. They're beliefs are actually pushing the rest of us off of a cliff with them.

[jdj]

75. what will it take for the liberal ostritches to wake up?

a nuke going off in their front yard?

I've been saying this for years, they want total annihlation of this planet, nothing else will do.

The parts of the bible having to do with vengeance and retribution were (revelations) were written during Roman persecution of xtians. This is their revenge fantasy.

You can tell it's dated because it doesn't say, "and the lord droppeth smart bombs upon the enemny".

[Carolab]

71. I have a suggestion...

send her the stuff on the net about Bush and Skull & Bones. That ought to give her some "religion"--about how they do all their devil-worshipping at secret ceremonies in the woods, etc.

Also, send her the stuff about Bush being the devil and all the "signs" that he is.

While you're at it, clue her in: www.jesusisaliberal.com

Then, ask her what she thought!

[Dem2theMax]

72. I don't think these people think * is the anti-Christ. They think * is

going to be the one to make the anti-Christ come. And if he comes, the rapture comes.

I'd bet my bottom dollar that she's read the 'Left Behind' books.
(I read the first one, just to see what it was all about. And then stopped.) I believe in God. But I don't think a bunch of people are going to disappear one day.

Anyway, ask your friend if she sees any resemblance between
* and Nicolae Carpathia.

In the Left Behind books, Nicolae is the anti-Christ. And I'd swear that if anyone WAS going to be the anti-Christ, it's *.

Heck, even the Pope said he thought * might be the anti-Christ!
You can't get much higher 'praise' than that. lol.

[Razorback_Democrat]

76. I Read this and the article and then read this:

and I feel very sick to my stomach right now.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041117/ap_on_re_eu/russia_nuclear_weapons

MOSCOW - President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) said Wednesday that Russia is developing a new form of nuclear missile unlike those held by other countries, news agencies reported
Speaking at a meeting of the Armed Forces' leadership, Putin reportedly said that Russia is researching and successfully testing new nuclear missile systems.


"I am sure that ... they will be put in service within the next few years and, what is more, they will be developments of the kind that other nuclear powers do not and will not have," Putin was quoted as saying by the ITAR-Tass news agency.Putin reportedly said: "International terrorism is one of the major threats for Russia. We understand as soon as we ignore such components of our defense as a nuclear and missile shield, other threats may occur."


No details were immediately available, but Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said earlier this month that Russia expected to test-fire a mobile version of its Topol-M ballistic missile this year and that production of the new weapon could be commissioned in 2005.


News reports have also said Russia is believed to be developing a next-generation heavy nuclear missile that could carry up to 10 nuclear warheads weighing a total of 4.4 tons, compared with the Topol-M's 1.32-ton combat payload.


Topol-Ms have been deployed in silos since 1998. The missiles have a range of about 6,000 miles and reportedly can maneuver in ways that are difficult to detect.


Earlier this year, a senior Defense Ministry official was quoted as telling news agencies that Russia had developed a weapon that could make the United States' proposed missile-defense system useless. Details were not given, but military analysts said the claimed new weapon could be a hypersonic cruise missile or maneuverable ballistic missile warheads.

[tjwash]

77. Harry Stamper and his crew of roughnecks is going to blow up...

..an asteroid? they're a few years too late for that.

This person obviously does not study the bible too seriously. "Armageddon" is not an event, but a location. Armageddon is where the final battle where the blood will run six feet deep takes place.

That's too bad this person feels that their current life is so bad, they feel compelled to wait for the next. Or maybe they have simply been led by the nose by massive fear mongering to think this. Of course that's what governments have done for thousands of years. Used, and twisted the bible's words to keep people under control, and giving their gold and silver to the churches, in promise of a better deal than the one they got in this life.

[bush_is_wacko]

78. They believe this wholeheartedly...

They are all ready for "the rapture." When it didn't come in 2000, they decided to help it along. I agree, that if you read the Bible, there are many prophecies that appear to be rearing their ugly head. However, if you read the Bible you will also realize that this does not end our existence here on earth. "The meek shall inherit the earth." They don't seem to understand that humans existed on this planet 30 million years before the single God theory. Maybe this planet needs Armageddon to relieve it of it's greed, poverty, illness, etc. etc. I used to consider myself a Catholic, now I consider myself a polytheist. 30 million years of successful human habitation is pretty convincing to me. Unless you feel some sort of obligation to this woman, I wouldn't bother to reply. She feels rightous. She will never be convinced otherwise.

http://www.friendsofishmael.org/about/about_us.shtml