We don't need to reposition ourselves on abortion

[Dookus]

The majority of Americans, CONSISTENTLY, support the provisions of Roe v Wade.


I propose we need to put the REPUBLICANS on the defensive. Anybody watching carefully would learn that George W. Bush did NOT favor outlawing abortion.

We need to force the issue - everybody running against an anti-choice candidate needs to ask them specifically:

a) do you support outlawing abortion?

b) if so, how do you propose to enforce it? Should women be imprisoned until they give birth if they express an interest in abortion? Should they be charged with crimes after the fact? Should they be imprisoned? For how long? Should doctors be imprisoned if they perform abortions? For how long?

c) Since there are approximately 10 times as many abortions as adoptions (1.3 million annual abortions vs. 127,000 adoptions) what do we do with the extra 1,000,000 babies EVERY YEAR? Build a huge infrastructure of orphanages?

We are on the RIGHT side of this issue, politically, constitutionally and morally. It's time we throw the ball back into their court - we've been too cowed by the right-to-lifers. Make THEM justify their position.

[Stinky The Clown]

1. We were **just** discussing this ....

My wife and I were just discussing this at dinner tonight.

I think this is a real winner for us. If a Dem gets up and says, plain and simple:

"(The Republican Candaidate) wants to take away a woman's right to chose. I will NOT."

He'd win. Hands down.

[Dookus]

2. I agree

and FORCE the other side to explain what they'd do.

Can you imagine if Kerry had pinned Bush down in the debate? Made Bush say EXACTLY what he believes?

[K-W]

3. And there are lots of pro-choisers in the republican party.

It is an issue that scares moderate republicans away from the religious right.

We are not wrong our fundemental takes on the issues, they are the lingering influence of the civil rights and labor movements. We just need get up off the mat and build a party that can compete.

[David Dunham]

4. Bush's justices will overrule Roe v. Wade. Then where are we?

Bush will likely get 3-4 Supreme Court picks, all of whom will likely vote to overrule Roe v. Wade.

[Dookus]

5. I don't agree

Roe v Wade is now supported by MULTIPLE subsequent decisions. It will not be easily overturned.

Furthermore, anybody who believes the republicans really WANT to overturn Roe is a fool. They want to keep things just like they are so they can use it as an issue.

I'm proposing turning the issue against them. We've been too cowardly on abortion, and it's time we went on the offensive.

[Dookus]

6. kick

sigh... we can re-fight the '04 primaries and get a few hundred replies, but taking a stand on a core issue drops right off the page.

[sandnsea]

7. I agree

We should just go to the opposite extreme of what they're advocating, force their hands. We never should have let them get away with partial-birth even. I want to know what they're planning to do about the women whose health or life is in danger without it. It was always a lie that we didn't need late term abortions for health reasons.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. That's absolutely true

My mother once had a teaching colleague who had a legal late-term abortion for health reasons in the 1940s.

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Don't drill down to the details, just stay on the very simple message

"I am pro choice. He is NOT."

If this gets said as simply as said above, what's a repub to do? They have no good, broadly appealing answers. Agree with it and they lose 1/3 of their support. Disagree with and they lose 2/3 of their support.

"I am pro choice. He is NOT."

or said another way ......

We can win with this. They CAN'T.

But, we can lose the issue if we're not careful. Don't make the mistake of getting all explanatory and intellectual and moral and principled about it. That's where people's eyes glaze over, and we open ourselves to misquotes and statements taken out of context. And besides, as is true so often (sadly), our internal debates become little more than mental masturbation.

"I am pro choice. He is NOT."

Period

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Self Delete - dupe

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Self delete - dupe

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Self Delete - dupe

[Stinky The Clown]

12. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry

I was stuck in posting this when DU went hinky a while ago and here my post showed up multiple times. I am sorry about this. I didn't intend to post this more than once.

[floridadem30]

13. Did you see the priests on c-span calling out Arlin Specter?

[Dookus]

14. No

missed that one. Thankfully.

[floridadem30]

15. They were supporting Frist for senate and telling specter to repent.

I feel like a protest

[Dookus]

16. It's time to start taxing the churches

that pull this shit.

[nemo137]

17. The other thing to do is to point out how are policies reduce abortion

something which banning outright will not do. The solidifies the pro-choice base, and should convince some pro-lifers to come on over.

[Forkboy]

18. but...if we stand up for things like abortion and gays

how will we EVER win?

<sarcasm,for those challenged by it :) >

[Dookus]

19. hehe

a big majority of Americans support civil unions for gay couples - we should be pushing that. And, as I said, a majority support abortion rights - we have to STOP being afraid of the other side on issues that belong to us.

[silverweb]

20. Reclaim the language

The anti-choice people have coined the phrase "culture of life" to sell their stance. What we have to persistently point out is that they are not being either truthful or consistent.

* Until the day when anti-choicers believe as strongly in providing food, clothing, health care, and education for every child born, they do not promote a culture of life -- but a culture of poverty, hopelessness, and crime.

* Until the day when anti-choicers are as vehemently against war as they are against a woman's right to choose, they do not promote a culture of life -- but a culture of fear and misery.

* Until the day when anti-choicers accept that comprehensive sex education and freely available contraception need to be an integral part of our culture through universal education and health care, they do not promote a culture of life -- but are directly responsible for the inevitable increase in abortions as well as the ruination of millions of lives.

The anti-choicers need to be pulled down off their high horses. Their self-righteous, holier-than-thou, judgmental premises are completely fallacious and full of contradictions and hypocrisy.

It's time we started fighting back by pointing out the numerous facts that they so earnestly try to hide.

[CAcyclist]

22. I agree

My mom is anti-abortion, but she still votes democratic - I believe there are only a very few people who view this as a single issue on the right, so I think it would be a fatal error for the Democrats to move any further to the right on this or stop fighting to preserve this right.

We need to refocus on the anti-abortionists motivation, which is to control and subjugate women. We need to focus on our motivation, which is to allow women control over their own body.

This is not really a pro or anti abortion question. Our history has many episodes of forced abortions of the mentally compromised, minorities and the poor. We need to preserve the rights of all women to have babies they want and to not have babies they don't want.

For example, my best friend is diabetic (juvenile) and has lupus and is on disability due to the severity of her conditions. She has had three babies. Every time , her doctors have told her she should abort for her health. Every time, she has refused and her babies are all healthy. She made that choice herself. I have supported her decision every time, but, for my friends who got pregnant and didn't want to carry to term, I supported their abortions. Every one of my friends , because of their freedom to make the right choices for themselves, is in a better place and are mentally healthier.

[Heddi]

23. THANK YOU----I'm Damn Sick of men on this board suggesting

that *I* give up my rights to choice so that we can maybe possibly win an election...

As if the Republicans will just throw their hands into the air and surrender if we were to 'roll over' on abortion. As if Republicans won't find ANOTHER issue. And ANOTHER issue. And ANOTHER issue. And the more we 'roll over' on abortion rights, equal rights, civil rights, the more *WE* become like *THEM* and eventually we live in a one-party state where you're either Republican or Republican.

Of course, I've yet to see any Straight, White, Christian Males offer up any of THEIR rights for Democrats to "roll over" on. It's always the women, the gays, the minorities who should "compromise your position for the sake of the party"

Must be nice always suggesting what *I* should do while they sit on their velvet thrones without a worry in the world.

I've said it in every other "Forget Abortion" or "Forget Gay Rights" threads that have come up: THe day the Democratic Party gives up on women, gays, minorities, the disinfranchied, the disadvantaged is the DAY I no longer consider myself a Democrat.

It is NEVER wrong to stand up for equal rights and civil rights for all....even if it means losing an election. Doing the right thing is NEVER wrong. You may not always get accolades for it, and good things may not always happen because of it, but you're NEVER wrong when you do the right thing.

I'd rather we lose every election from here to kingdom come but STILL be the party that supports choice, supports freedom, supports equality, etc.