Do you think a military coup could happen in the US?

[PretzelWarrior]

I mean, there are a lot of badass people in the CIA getting frozen out now....a lot of military brass who believe this president and his advisors are going off the deep end.

could they bring about an armed insurrection?

it is really scary to think about. I believe this is something to watch because there are a lot of moneyed, powerful people who are also against this administration.

[DireStrike]

1. Depends on what the Resident does.

He holds his own fate. People here are fat and lazy, all of us.

[PretzelWarrior]

2. so...what does that mean? of course we aren't going to do anything like th

I'm talking about the hardcore guys who are ruthless and practical and realize their patriotism is telling them to yank their country back from the brink by force.

then what do we have on our hands? something far worse.

[DireStrike]

3. It HAS to be people like us.

Lots of us...

The rich don't care that much. They can afford to just hop on a jet, withdraw all their capital, and start up some business somewhere else.

The CIA people... well, I guess it is possible for something like that. Washington DC probably doesn't have enough cops and troops to stop an all out coup.

But then what?

Err, Mr. Gonzales, this isn't a plan but rather a rhetorical question.


See, most Americans would... I don't know? What the fuck would we do? I can see people just not caring. We would have a handful of people from both ends of the spectrum seriously distraught, but I bet most people would just keep going to work and watching the news when they got home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Yes

You should google the term, one Brigadier actually wrote how this could happen as an exercise for his command school, as a full bird.

Go google the term, and General staff college....

People were talking of this in theory some years back... it just may be more in the planning than most are willing to admit

[PretzelWarrior]

5. wow. I will do this tomorrow at a break in my work

I am fascinated if this has been thought through by the upper crust of military and the establishment.

One must deal with the posibility of a "crazy ivan" getting the seat of power and I think we are there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Actually here you go

The Origins of the American Military Coup of 2012
CHARLES J. DUNLAP, JR.

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From Parameters, Winter 1992-93, pp. 2-20.

Go to Cumulative Article Index.


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The letter that follows takes us on a darkly imagined excursion into the future. A military coup has taken place in the United States--the year is 2012--and General Thomas E. T. Brutus, Commander-in-Chief of the Unified Armed Forces of the United States, now occupies the White House as permanent Military Plenipotentiary. His position has been ratified by a national referendum, though scattered disorders still prevail and arrests for acts of sedition are underway. A senior retired officer of the Unified Armed Forces, known here simply as Prisoner 222305759, is one of those arrested, having been convicted by court-martial for opposing the coup. Prior to his execution, he is able to smuggle out of prison a letter to an old War College classmate discussing the "Origins of the American Military Coup of 2012." In it, he argues that the coup was the outgrowth of trends visible as far back as 1992. These trends were the massive diversion of military forces to civilian uses, the monolithic unification of the armed forces, and the insularity of the military community. His letter survives and is here presented verbatim.

It goes without saying (I hope) that the coup scenario above is purely a literary device intended to dramatize my concern over certain contemporary developments affecting the armed forces, and is emphatically not a prediction. -- The Author


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Old Friend,


It's hard to believe that 20 years have passed since we graduated from the War College! Remember the great discussions, the trips, the parties, the people? Those were the days!!! I'm not having quite as much fun anymore. You've heard about the Sedition Trials? Yeah, I was one of those arrested--convicted of "disloyal statements," and "using contemptuous language towards officials." Disloyal? No. Contemptuous? You bet! With General Brutus in charge it's not hard to be contemptuous.

I've got to hand it to Brutus, he's ingenious. After the President died he somehow "persuaded" the Vice President not to take the oath of office. Did we then have a President or not? A real "Constitutional Conundrum" the papers called it.<1> Brutus created just enough ambiguity to convince everyone that as the senior military officer, he could--and should--declare himself Commander-in-Chief of the Unified Armed Forces. Remember what he said? "Had to fill the power vacuum." And Brutus showed he really knew how to use power: he declared martial law, "postponed" the elections, got the Vice President to "retire," and even moved into the White House! "More efficient to work from there," he said. Remember that?


http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/1992/dunlap.htm

[m berst]

6. the coup has already happened

I too wonder which segments of the country will knuckle under and which will fight. Historically, the military has been the most loyal of any group to the adminstration, with one notable exception - during the Civil War, when most of the officer corps joined the insurrection.

All of the elements are in place now for totalitarian rule. It is taking a relatively mild form for most people and the slow pace tends to lull people and paralyze them, as things get worse very, very slowly and people's lives deteriorate incrementally. Hard to predict what will happen. If there is mass resistance there will no doubt be heavy repression. Would that radicalize a substantial segment of the population? How far would this adminstration go to suppress the population? Maybe there is no limit? How vigorously will the people resist tyranny? They have seemed sluggish and dull-witted so far.

The administration has just about completed locking down all three branches of the government. One by one all of the obstacles to tyranny have fallen. Shocking, really, isn't it?

The funny thing is that the conservative Christians and right wing extremists sense a coming calamity, as well, and describe it in almost the same terms. They think that we - "liberals" - and Moslems are the cause. And of course many liberals think that they - the "fundies" and the "repukes" - are the cause. Divide and conquer. It is a relatively small handful of corrupt and vicious men who are the true cause IMHO. You can tell them - they are the ones with the smug looks on their faces.

[PretzelWarrior]

9. you bring up a good point about divide and conquer. point.....

they were talking about supreme court judges and how far-reaching the judge appointment would be as far as woman's right to choose goes...but something worse in afoot.

THE ABORTION ISSUE IS SO ONE-DIMENSIONAL and beside the point.

We must realize a conservative judge added to other conservative judges is going to rule against private citizens against corporations in criminal cases. A conservative judge is going to erode privacy protections.

A conservative supreme court will destroy civil liberties as we know it. THe court will cut out the power of the individual completely by taking away all forms of government regulation of industry and citizen's recourse.

We and others must realize that the powerful have won the last 3 elections despite the popular will of the people.

We must expect that people far more knowledgable are also aware and won't allow it to stand. I just plan to duck and cover when the shit hits the fan and protect my family.

[m berst]

13. Roe v. Wade is a smokescreen

Abortion got them votes, but it is a distraction. Plans are in place to severely restrict and neuter the judicial branch. Besides appointing Dominionist judges whenever they can, legislation is being worked up to prevent judges from "ruling against God" and from overturning congressional legislation on Constitutional grounds.

[DulceDecorum]

7. Military coup?

What exactly happened on September 11?

[MsConduct]

10. There's 'something in the air'....or we can hope there is. n/t

[PretzelWarrior]

11. The Revolution will not be televised.

that must mean some idealists and "revolutionaries" thought the kind of revolutionary change many people want to see will not happen in a dramatic people-in-the-streets made for TV way.

but if not that...what if it happens behind closed doors and all of a sudden only military uniformed people are briefing the press and the nation at large?

what then?

[MsConduct]

20. Then we have no one to blame but ourselves, We have....

sat on our hands, bitched on these boards, and let this regime screw us out of our 'free country'. We lost our fire for what is right.

[ever_green]

12. It's kind of exciting

I am very interested in the events of the near future.

[PretzelWarrior]

14. old chinese curse to utter to an enemy was:

May you live in interesting times. Meaning was....if things are rolling along...you have a peaceful life, you are fairly prosperous...not too exciting.

But if you are living in the midst of war, riots, famine, disease.....quite interesting. If you survive long enough to take in the full scope of it all.

How does a person even process this? I think I would skedaddle whichever way possible.

[Breeze54]

16. Excited about facism??

Try this website and read all about it!!
Have fun!
See ya in the internment camp!
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/archives/cat_dictatorship.html
:spank:

[ever_green]

17. ummm.....no. Excited about the fight against it. As implied by 1st post

hey, most people find hurricanes, tornados, etc... exciting too.

[izzie]

15. It could but I do not think it will.

More like the President will be giving it so he can use the army as his own play thing.If he wants to go into Iran does any one think Congress will stop him? Congress has used us badly. I frankly do not think we have the money to wage many more wars, but that still may not stop Bush. I think he likes it. What General has the balls to take over? I just do not think any have.

[Selatius]

18. Rebellion? Pray it will not come to this

Trust me. You do not want that kind of suffering and bloodshed on your own soil. My family came to this country 30 years ago to escape this kind of situation.

Wars against your own government are the most personal wars of all. All wars for people who fight them are personal. There's no getting around that, but this situation is especially true because when people decide to wage war against their own government for any reason, they take their friends and loved ones into that fight. The losses can be far more than one would want to bear.

We should do everything in our power to resolve any and all issues relating to government in a peaceful manner. Malfeasance should be retaliated against with justice and determination. Violence should be the absolute last resort.

I hope those who are being purged and those who have been stepped on by Bush and Co. are going to do everything except resort to violence to stop this corporatist regime from further growing in power and strength, but violence should not be utilized.

I hope these people will do what previous Americans did: Petition government to address grievances. We should hope they do the same. All that needs to be done now is to communicate a clear, unmistakeable message to Bush and Co. that this is not the way to go and that things should change. If they at first ignore us, then do it again, and again if need be, but please not war.

It has been 190 years since an army marched into D.C. Let's hope that record won't be broken within our lifetimes.

No one should be excited at all. You should be dreading it instead. This is the stuff of nightmares.

[PretzelWarrior]

19. I agree. what is far more likely is a Les Miserables-like band of

psychos storming DC to their absolute destruction. What a poignant moment that would be--US military gunning down armed bandits with a political cause right in the streets of our nation's capital.

With groups like Freemen and Aryan Nation out there, I'm sure that is far more likely than an organized coup by the "establishment".

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Oh trust me I KNOW exactly what you meant by these

words

yet I cannot help but think that for some in this country this is exactly what they desire and they have been pushing for this for the last thirty years.

I hope we can avoid it, but I am no longer sure we can.... I am planning for that eventuality, and seeing what I need to stock up... but I know exactly what you say... and I do pray we can avoid it.

For the moment, petitions... shmetitions... have you heard of CIVIL and PEACEAFAUL CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE?

I mean boycotts can and will work

Anybody care for some tea in boston?

[m berst]

24. "You should be dreading it instead"

Agreed 100%

I see us racing towards a future of only three alternatives -

1. resist this adminstration now peacefully, especially where they are most vulnerable - on the election theft issue

2. submit passively to tyranny

3. endure inevitable repression, violence and civil strife

Of course, in real life it will probably be some combination of features from each.

The idea, however, that we can roll over to them now, and go back to work on attempting to remove them in another corrupt election and meanwhile expect things to be more or less stable, is the most dangerous of all, and the most likely to end up in violence.


edited for punctuation

[PretzelWarrior]

25. I believe THIS is what I was thinking and feeling but didn't say.

we MUST ACT NOW....resist at every turn this administrations cynical and power-hungry grab for wider scope of influence and control over the American body politic.

We MUST stare them in the eye today and step away from the keyboard to march in the streets, deliver HANDWRITTEN letters to the post office, everything to come together as the wounded "PEOPLE" and demand we be represented truly and fully.

THIS IS A GREAT NATION of institutions, ideas, innovations, and freedoms. We will not allow some two-bit dictator wannabe to step on even the edges of that.

BUSH. YOu are only one man. and a small one at that.

[jdots]

22. The roll of the media mega corps will keep a lid on it

This country is too ingrained with consumerism to have anything more than a computer simulated t.v show to sell ads to a population of arm chair warriors.Have faith in people,even the ones who only trust superstition are good people.This is a televised facism so when it gets completely out of hand there are safety nets. shit i hope so.

[President Jesus]

23. I'll tell you that there would have been a military coup if Gore...

...were president and it was revealed that he receieved a PDB titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the US" in August 2001, and he had not acted (or even read) it. (This after sitting on his ass in stunned silence for seven minutes after being told the nation was under attack).

You can bet the White House would have been surrounded by tanks within an hour of that news...and you know what? The military probably would have been justified in removing a commander-in-chief under under that circumstance. hmmmm

Fuckin' retarded hypocrites.

[PretzelWarrior]

26. wow. these posts drop like stones today

meaning this place must be really busy.

[w4rma]

27. Not with Rush Limbaugh and FOX News feeding them propaganda

while they are on base eating and in lounges.