note to DUers who say "relax kerry is working mysteriously..."

[Lerkfish]

I see absolutely no evidence that Kerry or his representatives are mysteriously working behind the scenes to do ANYTHING, much less make sure the votes are counted properly.

And when people ask for evidence, they're told : no evidence is a GOOD thing.

TRUST US. absolute lack of anything tangible means there's something tangible you just don't know about because its STRATEGERY.

um...ok. So, if we buy this pig in a poke, I have this to say:

If, after all is said and done, come january, if NOTHING was happening mysteriously, but some people kept telling us to calm down because it was...I want THOSE people publicly flogged....with dental floss.

Actually, I want worse things, but this is a message board, after all.

AT ANY RATE; I want you "voices of calm" (and you KNOW who you are) to examine themselves, and STOP saying something is mysteriously happening, UNLESS YOU KNOW FOR A FACT IT IS. If you don't know, then please stop saying it is.

thanks.

[ebayfool]

1. Feel better now?

Got that off your chest?!

[Lerkfish]

2. sure....

did you have anything to add?

[Doohickie]

25. I freely admit

I have no evidence. All I have is faith in John Kerry. I had faith in him when I voted for him, and I still do.

Come January 20, I will either be vindicated in my faith or it will be time to let go and move on.

We are all dealing with the situation as we best can.

Personally, if Bush is, in fact, the guy on the podium on Jan 20, I will continue my volunteer & community work, I will work for future Democratic campaigns, etc. One thing I will NOT do is do anything that will detract from the government. If no evidence surfaces that points to a Kerry victory, it will be time to move on. I won't like it, but if that is, in fact, the will of the people, I will have to make the best of it.

I'm not ready to face that eventuality yet. I still have faith in Kerry, and his mystique. This is the guy who uncovered BCCI. I think that is good experience for uncovering voting irregularities and will also serve him well in dismantling terrorist networks.

But until Bush takes the oath of office on Jan 20, I will continue to have faith in Kerry.

[callous taoboy]

39. You spoke my mind, Doohickie.

[JNelson6563]

51. Your date should be Dec. 13

Once the electoral college meets, it's all over.

Julie

[hippiechick]

3. It does kinda sound like what's been coming from Washington ...

"You don't need to see it, but we KNOW Saddam had WMD's ... we have evidence"

"We don't need to testify before the 9/11 commission, we have nothing to hide"

"You don't need to see the Energy Commission papers, of course there was no impropriety ... trust us"


Does anyone blame us for being skeptical of the 'Kerry's working behind the scenes' theme ??



:hippie:

[meti57b]

4. it's a lot like in August when the swift boaters were trashing Kerry ...

and there was no response from the Kerry campaign. We were reading, "relax, it's strategy to let the swifties go out on a limb and make fools of themselves, then the Kerry campaign will come along and show what big liars they are"

[Merlot]

5. Tired of being disapointed...

I'm tired of being dissapointed by promises, and I agree with you. It would be wonderful to think that they are working behind the scenes, but I see no evidence of this. I would be more than happy to be proven wrong on this point. Right now I don't see anyone working to publicise the BBV issue, or even recognize it exists outside of DU.

Of course I'm not talking about Bev Harris and all the wonderful advocates who are there doing what thay can. I'm talking about the Democratic Party leaders,

[donheld]

24. This is why it cant be left up to politicians

we must take it from the grass roots and do it ourselves if we can.


BTW welcome to DU :hi:

[Gloria]

6. Who said Kerry was working mysteriously?

Things work mysteriously. Not necessarily Kerry himself. There are many people working whom we don't know about...in ways we don't know about, or in ways that are better out of the limelight for now.
Mysterious to us on the outside.
May be limited to one or two things which may or not lead to success.

Nothing too unusual about this sort of thing, really.

And where did the word "relax" come from??

[peacetalksforall]

11. It would be nice to know what authority one speaks with.

I will be happy to learn that there is hands on/hands directed work going on. I want to believe it and I am trusting in John Edwards saying that every vote will be counted (which I heard about three minutes - in a replay= before I head the concession.)

[Zorra]

7. Al Gore is still working mysteriously also. n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

16. AL Gore worked right out in the open for over a month

with the party, the other party and the media telling him to quit.

[dreamcollector]

8. If Br'er Fox, Kerry and the Democrats ain't layin low

Will you please 'splain, why Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have shut right up? If I were Bush and Cheney and Rove I'd be thinkin', IT'S TOO QUIET OUT THERE! I DON'T LIKE IT!" Well I LOVIT! Can't wait.

[DownNotOut]

9. The great mystery may be a

2008 run for Kerry... Perhaps he is taking what he 'learned' from the last run up and reworking it to create a win in 2008...?

D.N.O.

[lynx rufus]

12. Please, don't even joke about that

[Crunchy Frog]

10. It's called "denial".

It's a normal stage in the grieving process. I've gone through it myself, so I don't begrudge it to other people. However, I think that people like you who say what most of us already know in our hearts to be true, should not be lambasted for it.

[lynx rufus]

13. He should not be grieving yet, he should be leading the fight!

[Crunchy Frog]

18. I totally agree,

but it looks like he's not going to do it. The grief that I was talking about was our own, not Kerry's.

I honestly don't think that he wanted it as much as we did.

[Lerkfish]

21. well, I understand that, except...

I think its WRONG to imply one has some sort of inside knowledge that something is going on, and lead other people on with one's own wishful thinking.

I'd have no problem with people saying "I THINK there's probably something going on behind the scenes, because X, Y or Z"

But they don't do that...they make some sort of enigmatic chide for those who ask what's going on, like they are wrong to wonder, because THEY are in the know and they KNOW something tangibly is going on.

I'm not saying there might not be people in the know like that, but my suspicion is that the majority of these people are talking out of their wishful thinking butts, and trying to make the more pragmatic people feel like something its going on, so they'll magically retain faith when all they see if vapor.

In other words, I want people who DO know something to continue as they have, I guess, but I want people who KNOW they DON"T know anything to stop cryptically acting as if they do, and continuing to mislead others and set them up for another disappointment needlessly.

Its one thing to be in your own denial. Its another thing to intentionally draw others into your own fantasy, and unfair to them.

[Mister K]

23. Lerkfish - I can feel your disappointment

We all feel it. We all want to know what is going on (if anything). I have no inside knowledge, only faith.

I have faith that Kerry will not let us down. We all put a lot on the line and he knows that.

The greatest tactical advantage of any situation is surprise. You can have military superiority but if you are caught with you pants down, you are in a heap of trouble.

I don't think Bush expected this. He expected Kerry to fight him on open ground and to challenge the vote as Gore did. Gore tried that and failed.

[htuttle]

14. It's all a part of Carville's secret plan to win the 2002 midterms

Which is part of Daschle's secret plan to keep Bush from invading Iraq by voting for it.

Any day now, all these secret plans will come to fruition.

Then you'll see...

:eyes:

[UdoKier]

15. Reminds me of during the campaign.

When I said the Kerry camp needs to get it's shit in gear, the optimists would say "Oh, don't worry, he's got a trump card up his sleeve for the last minute,"

When I criticized him and asked EVERYONE to email the campaign and INSIST that he PROPERLY answer the $87 bil. flip-flop charges, the optimists said "don't worry, he's waiting for the second/third debate to hit it out of the park."

I could have answered that stupid question effectively, and I was never district attorney for the City of Boston or a US Senator.

I've resigned myself to the fact that Kerry was a setup and he never really wanted to win.

Damn him and Clinton and all the other saboteurs of the Democratic party to hell.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. Wasn't he playing some kind of Judo or something?

What the hell was that?

I think Kerry was trying to win and I think the party was too. I think they just had lousy advice as usual and didn't pay attention to the BBV problem.
I actually do think Kerry might have won Ohio... but we will never know. To them it is better to lose gracefully than look like Gore in 2000.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. He was playing judo and chess.

I wonder what ever happened to DemStrategist and what he has to say for himself at this point.

[Mister K]

27. I was waiting too...but it never came

Kerry could have obliterated Bush in the third debate, but he didn't. He stuck to his message and did not go off it. Why, I am not sure. The only thing that I can come up with is to minimize potential Bush spin on Kerry's remarks.

[LittleClarkie]

28. Then you've resigned yourself to a tin-hatted untruth

And, unlike Rove and his minions, I don't care how many times you repeat the same exact words. It will never come any closer to being the truth.

It's amazing what people are willing to believe on little or no evidence.

He did hit it out of the park during the debates. We had volunteers coming out of the woodwork here in Wisconsin right after the first debate. It was amazing.

Oh sure, he sacrificed his life-long ambition to be president because someone asked him to go be a set up.

If anything, I wish he hadn't used a similar campaign staff to one that has lost before.

[FunnyLady]

19. Mr. Mysterious indeed...

Kerry ran such a terrible campaign that I wonder if he was throwing the thing. Both he and the chimp swear allegiance to the 'Bonesmen' above anything else.

Still a Deaniac.

[go west young man]

22. Do you guys seriously think

that the Repubs and the Dems aren't watching all this shit? With how much they have invested in it? I have no doubt the CIA as well as all kinds of private companies,spies,lawyers,homeland security, you name it... are watching these boards as well as everything Kerrys people do, what Jeff Fisher is up to, what Bev Harris is doing. The recounts will be the turning point should the numbers not match. Then this thing will get ugly.

[ShaneGR]

26. What would you suggest he do?

Jump up and down crying that he lost?

[Behind the Aegis]

29. it is all about faith right now

I certainly understand that some are hoping things are going on "behind the scenes." To be honest, I am one of those people. In the same vein that we cannot prove something is going on, we cannot prove something is NOT going on! Faith is what we are running on, at least I am. This is as much a 'mystery' as is there a G-d? No one can prove or disprove His existence. It doesn't mean He is there, but it doesn't mean He isn't! As for the election, I will hold onto my hope and faith that the liars will be exposed (whatever side they are on) and that truth will prevail.

Brightest Blessings!

[Lerkfish]

30. yes, but to coin a phrase... faith without works is dead.

please don't misunderstand, though...I am NOT having a problem with people like you that are holding on to faith, and IDENTIFY it as such. That's cool. I even have some myself.
my problem is people that cryptically imply they have inside knowledge of mysterious works going on undetected, when (I suspect) they are operating on faith just as you are.

I"m saying it engenders FALSE hope, instead of faith, which is different.
that false hope is going to do more damage to people (if its false) than asking people to have faith.

not sure if I'm explaining myself sufficiently.

[Behind the Aegis]

31. you explained yourself well!

I appreciate your response. And, I agree. I don't like it when people imply they "know" something, when they do not...that does lead to false hope. If you already have faith, then that is enough, but to mislead others to "your faith" is not very honest, IMO.

I wish I could say, "Hey, I KNOW that the Dems are doing X" but I can't, I can only speculate. I think that is some of what is keeping me from totally losing perspective about my country.

I will continue to hold to my faith, but I am also a skeptic, odd combo, I know.

Thanks.

Brightest Blessings!

[pacalo]

32. Ok, Lerkfish...

absolute lack of anything tangible means there's something tangible you just don't know about because its STRATEGERY

That's one definition of FAITH. I have faith that John Kerry isn't apathetic -- I believe he's angry & he's doing all that he can, through his people, to check into the voting irregularities.

If my faith has misled me, I will be the first to turn on John Kerry. But until then, I have the utmost faith that the man I've learned so much about is NOT turning a blind eye to this election debacle.

[Redleg]

33. Good for you. How do you know it's not happening?

EOM

[Forkboy]

36. How do you know it is?

[Redleg]

37. I'd tell you but then I'd have to erase your memory.

[Forkboy]

45. No really,how do you know?

[Redleg]

52. I never said I knew one way or the other.

I can't read Kerry's mind, can you?

[Ladyhawk]

34. You're spot-on.

We've been left without a leader. Look what happened. We were ready to mobilize and protest.

Now the best we can do is work this ourselves, supporting organizations that want to get to the bottom of the voting irregularities or voter fraud or whatever it really was.

I'm a grass root. How about you?

[MsTryska]

35. Ohio's doing a recount isn't it?

at least that's what i heard on the radio this morning.

[Cat Atomic]

49. No thanks to the Democrats, and certainly no thanks to Kerry.

[TWiley]

54. Lets assume the recount goes in favor of John Kerry.

Then what?

Do you believe that bush will vacate office?
My money says he would simply nuke any americans that tried to make that happen.

How would that transition work?

[bigtree]

38. stop saying something ISN"T happening unless YOU know for certain

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

40. Faith and (false?) hope is no substitute to fight.

I REALLY hope your not relying on Kerry to lead your fight or anything. If he does - fine. But His miserable campaign and the bonesman past along with halfassed efforts to spend campaign money leaving doubledigit millions in the chest.

If your advancing and he emerges to your aid, fine...but far too risky to rely on, considering who's sitting at the trigger.

C'mon the people outside the states count on you.

[bigtree]

41. you rain on Kerry's campaign, you use LaRouche sponsored crap

about a college fraternity to smear him . . . you must one impressive bug on his wall . . .

[Harlan James]

42. I hate to say it...

...but it's over.

Nothing is happening. Nothing about the 2004 results is going to change. The GOP is a party led by red faced howling bullies, whereas we are the party led by meek conflicted ditherers.

It almost sickens me to have to say it, but there it is...

[bigtree]

43. don't look behind you as you close the door

you might see something happening.

[ilovenicepeople]

46. "I don't hate to say this,"(but plenty of you will)

one of the biggest illusions is the illusion of choice.The Left\Right paradigm is used to keep the masses fighting amongst themselves so that they don't bother to fight the people in power.Don't forget to ask yourself before you venomously type back at me,"Why did that post make me feel so angry"?

[Rockerdem]

44. Keep plugging away

Just because Olbermann is vacationing and Kerry is mum doesn't mean that something isn't brewing. This week was for President Clinton. Next week, the 2004 national election returns to the front page, maybe above the fold. In the meantime, stay active on the web contacting people.

[zann725]

47. Kerry DID give us hope this week...

In the local TV interview Kerry did two days ago (on the Boston channel), when asked about 2008 and about his loss in this election, Kerry ABRUPTLY replied, 'Listen, they're still counting votes.' He also said the he WASN'T 'closing any doors' OR 'opening any' YET.

While that may have been exactly the kind of vague Kerry comment which drove others crazy during the campaign, it 'spoke' to me as the Kerry I supported and believed in before the election, and continue to do so now. Besides, we also now know he still has considerable 'campaign money' left...which I assume would be convenient in any Voter Fraud litigation.

Also, did anyone see Bush's naming of the Annual White House Turkey yesterday? Bush's speech kept drawing vicious analogies between the Turkey Name Vote, and the Presidential Vote. It was clearly meant to viciously make fun of Kerry and the campaign. If Bush was clearly comfortable with his victory, there would've been no need for him to go on as he did. Even for Bush. I found it QUITE 'telling.'

[Cat Atomic]

48. The Greens are the only ones actually pushing for a complete vote count.

Yeah, those Greens. The ones that so many people around here love to laugh at- or hate. Meanwhile, the professional politicians like scuttle back to their comfortable seats, campaign dollars in hand.

Meh- "I told you so" just isn't fun anymore.

[bigtree]

50. funny

haven't heard one sour note about Kerry from their leadership.

[TWiley]

53. Absolutely. Well said.

I wonder how many of these "voices of calm" actually criticized the realists for voicing concerns about the shitty campaign that was being run.

Too bad they refused to see reality for what it was. If they had, then maybe they would have tried to help the rest of us find better ways to get the message out. Oh no, this is political ju-jitsu and you are simply too stupid to figure it out.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post. My suggestion would be:

"First,find a way to get your head out of those pink clouds and get your feet on the ground." "Second, Admit that the election is over". "And last, help us get on with the future work that will really make a difference."